There are two reasons I say that, and I don't have statistics to back either up, so don't jump on me.
First, the same gas we are wasting driving our overpowered SUV's to the mail box and back is costing our military high prices in Iraq as well. Budgets being what they are, short cuts may soon be taken that are not good for our troops. Whether to send our friends to the airport by semi-safe but fuel guzzling helicopter or in trucks by the dangerous, daily bomb planted Airport road may be determined by the cost of gas.
Second, of each gallon of gas, not much, perhaps a penny or two goes to Saudi Arabia. the Government of Saudi Arabia is outwardly an opponent of terrorists, most of AlQueda's funding comes from the few secret sources who funnel their vast wealth into Al Queda's pockets.
Its not much.
Perhaps a tenth of a penny per dollar that they earn from oil sales makes its way into explosives and suicide schools in Iraq.
But it is enough to keep them running and growing.
And we can do something about it.
Perhaps saving a gallon or two, a dollar or two, won't starve out the terrorists. But it is better than nothing. Its a start. It is supporting our troops in a way that not only shows we care, but that maybe we can help.
During WWII travel in the US was put on hold as gas was directed to the war effort first. Watch old Bugs Bunny cartoons and you'll hear the phrase, "Was this trip really neccesary?"
Perhaps we should go back to asking ourselves that question. Is this trip really worth the cash we are giving our enemies? Is this trip really worth the cost we are inflicting on our troops?
.
If you truly support our troops, pay your taxes.
Don't grumble and complain and cheat and lie.
Some of the money you are giving to the goverment goes into the equipment and the wallets of people risking their lives for us. Sure, a lot of that money is wasted or goes into projects that you don't approve of. That is not the point here. We can change those priorities later. What is important right now is that some of that money is needed by our troops right now, and the only place it can come from is you.
You think that only one cent of every dollar you pay helps our troops? Fine. They are easily worth 100 times what they are paid so if it takes 100 times thier pay to pay them, we who support those troops will pay it happilly. I am talking supporting our troops and that means giving them what they need no matter what the cost. If you want to complain about it, then you are not supporting them.
You want to fix the government so that they get more of those taxes, fine. I will march with you and help in any way possible. We will start just as soon as you pay your taxes. Political and economic reform comes after our troops have the equipment they need, the pay they've been promised, and the costly medical attention they deserve.
.
If you truly support our troops, volunteer.
Volunteer in a VA hospital.
Empty the Urinals.
Clean the sheets.
Be there when they need pudding or a shoulder to cry on or hope for a pain free tomorrow.
Volunteer in an Army School, where the parents of the children are away fighting to defend us.
Hold the childrens hands.
Protect them from those who would prey on them.
Reassure the soldiers you are supporting that we will support their families while they do their duty.
That is our duty.
Volunteer at a VA Cemetary.
Cut the grass.
Place some flowers.
Help those who have come to mourn.
Show the world that unlike after WWI and Vietnam, we will not forget those who have given their lives for their country.
.
If you truly support our troops, support our troops.
Don't demand attention for your support. Don't let it slip lightly off your tongue, or be represented by an easily removable magnet attached to your car. Don't let it be confused with politics. Don't make it into a religion.
If you truly support our troops, do something to support our troops.
Given the amount of energy it takes to make and ship a car, is it better to drive a gas guzzler into the ground before buying the hybrid or is it better to just get the hybrid?
Obviously, the answer depends on the age of the car being replaced, the amount of miles driven annually, etc. But it's something to think about.
posted
Then you have to consider that purchasing hybrids increases the manufacturer's incentive to make more hybrids as well as the dealer's incentive to stock more hybrids.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Your question reminded me of a "Car Talk" puzzler:
quote:
SUV or Hybrid? A Familial, MPG Conundrum
RAY: This puzzler came to us from Rabbi Jeff Glickman. Here it is: You drive a gas-guzzling SUV that gets a whopping 10 miles per gallon. Your sleek and efficient spouse drives a sleek and efficient hybrid that gets 100 miles per gallon.
Now, let's assume that both of you drive the same distance each year. Your spouse sees an ad for a new, super-duper hybrid that gets 200 miles per gallon. She is lobbying to trade in her old, wasteful 100-mile per gallon hybrid for the new 200-mpg model; her thinking being that getting this new hybrid to replace the old one will really improve the average miles per gallon of your household.
On the horns of a dilemma, you seek out the one person you trust with questions automotive: your mechanic, Crusty!
"What can I do," you ask, "to improve our household's miles per gallon without buying this new hybrid?"
Crusty says, "Well, if we tune up your old SUV, and inflate the tires correctly, and remove that four inches of accumulated bird poop on the roof, I'm pretty sure we can get you all the way up to 11 miles per gallon." Your heart sinks.
What should you do? That's the question. Under which scenario would your household see the biggest improvement in miles per gallon: by getting the new hybrid, or by tuning up the old SUV?
posted
Ah! Then what you should do is scrap your car -- melt it down and sell the base metals -- and then get on the waiting list for a hybrid. In the interim, bike.
posted
The only waiting lists for HCHs are for those that want their exact color/transmission. I saw a 2005 HCH at the dealership I brought my HCH to get the transmission replaced.
Even Priuses can be had, just not exactly what you want.
As for running a "gas-guzzler" into the ground, mileage rates tend to worsen as they get older/more miles. So it might still be best the by a hybrid now (unless your trade-in is just resold).
posted
I'm asking a question between two alternatives. Now answer right or I'm going to drive 100 extra miles this week in your honor. Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
The energy to make and ship the hybrid has already been invested by the time you buy it, so I'd buy the hybrid.
Edit: Remember, there are waiting lists for hybrids in North America because Toyota and Honda aren't selling very many of them here. That demand for them exceeds supply isn't surprising in light of how few are available.
If the question is whether to tune up the old SUV or to buy a new hybrid to replace the old hybrid, then hands down the answer is to tune up the old SUV. You'll be using less gas that way.
HOWEVER
If you remove the artificial restriction of the puzzle, the best choice from a gas usage perspective would be to let the spouse get the new hybrid and then scrap the SUV and drive the old hybrid. Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
The CarTalk question question contains an important cautionary point about energy policy - the payoffs that are important are in actual units (barrels, gallons, etc.). Percentage changes must be evaluated to obtain the actual savings.
Of course, Karl's comment about the artificial restriction makes an important point about energy policy, too.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Indeed. Hybrids are nice. But fact is, the biggest difference that can be made on an individual level is in the lower mpg range. Suppose, for easy calculations, that the average car gets 25 mpg, SUVs get 12.5 mpg, and hybrids get 50 mpg. This means that in order to offset one person switching from a regular car to an SUV, two people have to switch from regular cars to hybrids. And that's just to maintain the current level of consumption.
So every time I see a hybrid on the road, which is rare but getting more frequent, I glance around to count the SUVs and pickups in the vicinity. Clearly we have a long way to go.
Also, I have no empirical data backing this observation, but compared to even five years ago there are many more SUVs on the road, and they are much bigger than they used to be. It's like we've been waging a domestic arms race, may the biggest vehicle win. Even cars are bigger than they used to be.
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
There are people however, who do in fact need to drive pickups and minivans, and for whom an SUV makes sense. Let's remember that, and not automatically castigate anyone we see on the road driving a gas guzzler.
I have yet to meet a vehicle that gets 40 mpg that can transport my household of seven. My husband has yet to meet a hybrid he can put a pipe rack on, and haul 8000 pounds of tools and equipment to the jobsite with.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
There is no reason other than marketing, why Hybrid engines can not go into SUV's, trucks, and others.
Sure, your Ranchero won't get 50MPG like the Prius, but it will get a lot better gas mileage than a pure gas Ranchero.
(Not an Attack on Belle or people who own SUV's. This is an attack on the @#$@@#$ manufacturers who refuse to offer SUV's or large cars with better conserving engines.)
posted
Actually I don't own an SUV, I own a van and a pickup. The reason I don't own an SUV is because they don't get good mileage and aren't practical for me.
However, I know many people for whom they are very practical and make a lot of sense. I'm not talking about people who buy the SUV because it's cool and only ever use it to commute to work. I'm talking about people who live in rural areas, with large families, that don't always drive on paved roads, that need to occasionally pull a horse trailer behind their family vehicle, etc.
Problem is, in my area you can't tell which is which by looking. We have, within a five mile radius of my house, people who own working ranches and people who drive into the city to work as lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. The first group may use their SUV's capabilities on a daily basis. For the second group, the closest they get to off-road might be a county highway instead of an interstate.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:But it also puts my current car in the hands of someone who will probably drive it much more than I do.
This hypothetical buyer probably has an even older car, since your car would have to be an upgrade to be worth buying. And he probably wouldn't drive more in your car than he drives in his current one.
[Edit: Belle, I completely agree. Sometimes an SUV or a pickup is the only thing that will do the job. But on my commute (from Providence to Middletown RI) there are far too many light trucks to be in that category. I'm just griping here, I know -- I don't have a solution. Just pointing out that hybrids don't do as much good as some vehicles do harm. ]
[ April 19, 2005, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Chevy is coming out with a hybrid Silverado full-size pickup that will get 18/21 mpg. It's not getting a very good rating and is not much of a performer.
Ford has an Escape hybrid that gets 36/31. The Escape hybrid is pretty highly rated overall (2005 North American Truck of the Year).
Toyota is coming out with a Highlander hybrid that will get 32/27.
We're interested in a hybrid, but, like Belle said, we need a people-mover. If they ever make a hybrid minivan (especially if Toyota makes it) we will be very interested.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
And Dan, I'm sorry but I take issue with your title and first post.
I hope it's not your intent to suggest that people who drive SUV's don't support or care about the troops. Or that only people who volunteer in VA hospitals really care. Or that if we don't do any of the things on your list, we should "shut up."
I have a father serving right now. Plenty of friends and extended family. I don't volunteer in a VA hospital because my energy and time don't allow for me to volunteer for every single charity cause I care about. I care about a lot of things, and I support them in any way I can, but unfortunately I have a finite amount of time and money.
I don't drive a hybrid, and I'm not likely to unless they start manufacturing one large enough and cost-effective enough for me to consider it.
And while I don't cheat on my taxes, I do expend a lot of effort to make sure I pay what I'm supposed to and not one penny more. That's not illegal, and it only makes good financial sense.
It's a bit insulting to have you put forth these criteria, and then say that if I don't meet your criteria I should "shut up." I have people I love over there. My support goes deeper than driving a car.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Belle, I agree with your last post. I had a similar but more vague feeling when I first read Dan's post. You have done a good job solidifying that vague unease. Perhaps because I don't have anyone important to me personally actually serving over there at this time it was harder for me to solidify my thoughts. At any rate, I agree with you.
On the other hand, those ribbon magnets just annoy me. Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Wow. It's funny when conservatives find the tactics they use against others offensive when used against them.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Wow. It's funny when someone makes sweeping comments about "conservatives" as if they all did the exact same thing.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I was targeting the more vocal, big bumper sticker and magnet ribbon wearing crowd who would rather pay for a big shiny proclamation of thier support than do anything that actually helps the troops.
I am open to any other suggestions on how we can constructively support the troops.
The first part was saying simply use less gasoline. I used the word hybrid only in the title, but it seems to have taken over the thread. You already are doing everything in your power to use as little gasoline as possible.
The last paragraph is bad. I just didn't know how to end it so threw something out that is insulting. I apologize.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Sure we do. What the heck are you talking about Rak? I just made sweeping generalizations in another thread. About liberals and conservatives. I'll paint all y'all with the same damned brush if I want to. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
dkws, of course! Actually, there's no way I could use the same brush. I'm way too OCD for that. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Speaking of which, I nearly had a heart attack last night while watching Two and a Half Men. Charlie touch hamburgers, then half heartedly wiped his hands on his pants, then drank some beer, then put buns on the grill. I was hyperventilating through the whole scene.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Speaking of which, I nearly had a heart attack last night while watching Two and a Half Men. Charlie touch hamburgers, then half heartedly wiped his hands on his pants, then drank some beer, then put buns on the grill. I was hyperventilating through the whole scene.
I think that was the point of the scene, not to give those with OCD a heart attack or make them hyperventilate, but rather to show the childishness of the way that they go about baiting one another and getting back at each other.
Posts: 148 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Well, the spitting on the hamburger bun was for that. I think the hamburger thing was just done because it wouldn't have been convenient for him to go all the way inside to wash his hands.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: The first part was saying simply use less gasoline.
How about, use less petroleum ? Remember, every new, plastic item you buy was made with petroleum. The plastic bag you got it in? Petroleum. Your dish soap? If it doesn't list the ingredients, you can bet it's petroleum based. Check your skin care and beauty products too.
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
You could also car pool, raise the temperature on the thermostat for your air-conditioning, be a vegetarian, winterize your home. You know, the normal things to cut energy usage.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
As for having (or needing) a larger vehicle, I have a 3/4 ton pickup that I drive about 300 miles a year. Insurance wise it's not really worth it but every once in a while you really need a truck.
On a daily basis, I drive the prius, my wife drives a chevy lumina, and my son drives a toyota corolla. But if I needed to transport 5 people, I'd drive the lumina. It's all about matching the vehicle to the job.
Of course it's not really reasonable for everyone to own several different cars for different kinds of jobs, but I'm hearing about car sharing arrangements, so that when you need a car, you take the one that best suits your needs. I don't know too much about it, but it sounds interesting.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
There are a lot of things you can do to reduce energy costs, however, how much of a conservatioist you are is not the only measure of how much you care about or support our troops.
Neither is volunteering in a VA. Have you been to a VA recently? Anybody?
They are not volunteer friendly places. It's not like children's hospitals where they have entire departments that coordinate volunteer efforts.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Kayla, I can't figure out how your response follows from Belle's post.
What the hell does what Belle said have to do with whether or not voicing dissent is un-American or not?
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
You know, that is exactly my problem with this thread. People telling Dan not to tell them what is supportive of the troops.
You know what? The Right has done nothing but tell the Left what's American in the last 4 years. Now, you can't take one thread about it? Get over yourselves. [coulterdiatribe] You're being unpatriotic and anti-American. You're aiding the enemy by disagreeing! That's treason. You should be in jail. Horrible, horrible little people.[/coulterdiatribe]
That's all we've heard for the last 2 years. Now, someone dares suggest that your rampant over usage of gas is part of the problem and you're going to get all offended?
posted
What we really need to do is track down Superman, use a kryptonite needle to get a blood sample, and then start genetically engineering people to fly.
I don't know why this wasn't put before Congress long ago.
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
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