posted
OSc, you wrote this: "Sorry, but we don't violate the copyright of songwriters by posting lyrics here."
Does that include our Lyrics Game, which has gone on for years, where we post snippets of lyrics, and then find new lyrics from one word of those? I did a search for that thread, and could not find it. It is one of my favorite Hatrack pastimes.
I just want to be clear. I recently posted lyrics, and I will delete them.
Is it any lyrics at all, with or without posting the songwriter? Is it only full lyrics? Are snippets OK?
Thanks. I have been good about not putting the full lyrics on here, except for a few times for songwriters I know are free with their lyrics.
[ April 24, 2005, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Oops. What about the game where you take song lyrics and google-translate them from English to German, German to French and French to English, then post the result and people try to guess the song?
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Thanks, Cow-eating Man, when I searched for it with "lyrics" nothing came up.
Seriously, I adore this game, the first one, and the new version, too. Please let us keep it! we will give links, references, limit our lyrics to one or two lines, anything!
(Unless even that might get you in trouble.)
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Based on what he said, I'd go with "no, it's not ok" -- but I generally tend to err on the side of caution. And if it turns out to be ok at all, I'd say there would have to be a far stricter limit -- a line or two at most. Posting sixteen lines of a song and connecting with the previous song with the word "you" is kinda ridiculous (if anyone did just that, I apologize -- I thought I was exaggerating based on memory rather than picking a single instance).
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What about the song-mangling game? The one where you post lyrics that are almost completely unrecognizeable due to processing through multiple translation bots?
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I'm curious why people would sue over having lyrics typed up. Don't quite understand how that could undermine their ability to make money.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Sometimes I would post 16 lines because I wanted to get to a more recognizable part of the song, especially when I had a specific song I wanted to post and my linking word was buried in a verse someplace. And yeah, actually I do think I've used "you" as a linking word Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Telperion, Maybe it is because the lyrics are usually contained in the cd you buy? I am not sure, but I do know it is very difficult to use lyrics within a novel, or any writing. You have to get all kinds of permission.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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I had thought we went over this before, a long time ago, and it was decided by the mods that posting a short quote from lyrics was okay, but not the entire song.
Honestly I thought it was understood that you don't quote the whole song, but I can clarify specific rules if that helps.
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That is what I understood as well, Ladyday, but now I am confused. OSC's post seems like it is not OK to post any lyrics.
Here is what he wrote:
"Sorry, but we don't violate the copyright of songwriters by posting lyrics here. First, because it's wrong. And second, because music publishers SUE."
He did not say "all the lyrics of a song," he just said lyrics.
[ April 25, 2005, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Lyrics, like any other created material, are copyrighted. Reproduction without permission is illegal.
Now, many artists post their lyrics themselves online, and probably don't care if you reprint them since that serves as free advertising for them. Some artists and companies sell lyrics sheets and books, so disseminating them for free would potentially damage those sales. But it's case-by-case deal, with the default being: don't do it.
Fair Use would extend towards a line or two being quoted without permission, although if it's to be republished in a commercial venture (such as a novel) you need to get permission.
Thing is, whether or not you feel it should be OK, it's not your call. It's the decision of the owner of the copyright, and no one else. Should copyright laws change (and that wouldn't surprise me at all, as the Internet runs roughshod over enforceable copyright) you might be able to post as you wish, but as it stands now posting entire or large amounts of song lyrics is illegal, and a forum that permits it is potentially liable. Your average podunk forum wuld prolly never get noticed, but the web site of a NYT best-selling author? Lawyers who didn't know much about author incomes might smell money...
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Actually, fair use can extend to commercial use as well, though almost always better to err on the side of caution.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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I agree that it's not a question of what we think should be okay. I actually don't think you should be allowed to post entire songs without permission, just for the record. I honestly thought the amount we were posting was within the law and would not be a problem in any way. I seem to remember this being something that not just hatrackers, but also the owners of the board, agreed on last time this issue came up.
As I said, I am not looking to break laws. As a gamer and an artist I have respect for intellectual property and think I hold myself to high standards of honesty and integrity when dealing with copyright laws.
Anyway, if I need to clarify rules (in my version of the lyric game thread) or I need to remove the thread, just say so. It's not like I don't want to do the right thing here :\.
Posts: 1676 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Most likely the snippets being posted would be held to be within fair use. Whether or not that fair use could be cheaply defended if the music industry decided to pursue the cases as violations is another question.
The music industry has made a lot of people take stuff down over the years which they were within their rights to post.
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