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So I'm sending puppies home now. The first one went home on Wednesday. I noticed when handing her to her new owners, that one of her eyes was watery. I thought, hmm, that's new, and told the new owners to point it out in the vet checkup.
Their vet was quite concerned. Says there may be vision loss. They sent me a picture of her and her eye looks about 10 times worse than when she left my place. She must have injured it while roughousing with her siblings. Possibly a puppy tooth.
So I'm paying for them to take her to a canine opthamalogist. (It's pretty much $100 to walk in the door.) But, I'm trying to figure out how much I should refund if there is vision loss. It will only be very minor vision loss on the peripherial, and she'll be able to have a happy healthy life otherwise. I'm thinking 25%. Anyone have any other ideas on what is fair?
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I think it depends on what they intend the dog for, and what their future additional medical costs may be. 25% sounds pretty fair to me, but I don't know.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Once whatever happened heals, she should be basically fine and not require extensive ongoing medical treatment. I just want to evaluate the amount of possible vision loss.
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Poor little puppy. I have no idea what would be fair (never having dealt with puppy breeding), but 25% sounds very generous to me.
Personally, I don't think a little eye trouble is a big deal in a pet. Our newest kitten had an infection that damaged her eyesight when she was tiny (before we got her). She probably has about 50% sight in one eye and 75% in the other (from what we can guess). An opthomologist she was taken to said he couldn't really do anything for her. But she seems to do just fine as an indoor cat. She is healthy and happy and our most adventurous cat.
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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If they were planning on showing the puppy and this will mean they can't, I would offer to take it back for a full refund and place it somewhere else as a pet. If the problem won't preclude showing the dog, or it was going as a pet dog anyway, then I think just paying for the doctor's visit is enough... maybe offer a token refund (10%?) if you think they are upset about it or it would make you feel better.
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I agree with ElJay - if they were planning to show this puppy, as opposed to it being purely a pet, an eye problem would be a cause for concern, possibly prompting a refund (depending on their feelings).
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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The injury wouldn't affect her show career either way. Even if there is slight perphierial vision loss, it is the result of an injury "a scar of honor" and not genetic, so it isn't a problem in the ring. (People have shown deaf dogs in the breed ring sucessfully using hand signals, which *is* against the rules, but they haven't gotten caught)
As far as showing, she may be shown, but is primarily a pet. They were not planning on showing her. I sold her at the "pet" price. However she is very nice, and even though I made them sign a "pet" contract, I left her on unlimited registration so that if she turns out gorgeous, I could talk them into letting me show her locally and try to put a breed championship on her.
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I would offer to take the dog back for a full refund. If they accept, then they might not be the best owners for the puppy anyway. If they don't, you cover the medical bills and they should be happy about that.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Ah. Since you sold her as a pet, I'd pay the medical bill, but not issue any refund. If they balk, like Dag said, take her back, give them a refund, and sell her to someone else. Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Probably the other reason why taking her back completely, right now, didn't cross my mind, is because I still have 7 puppies at home. If she was injured playing with her siblings (extremely likely) it's safer for her to be there. And I don't know if I could handle taking a puppy back right now as far as sanity goes. 7 is much less taxing than 10, but it is still a handful.
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I think the larger point is offer to pay the medical bills, and let them ask for a refund if they want. Then it's just dickering.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I have to echo what others have said, AJ. If you are paying the medical bills, I don't think even a 25% is warranted. If I had puppy and there was this type of problem and the breeder offered to pay the medical bills, I'd be thrilled with that. I certainly wouldn't ask for a refund.
You're being more than fair, and being a good, responsible breeder. If they complain, and want a refund, then offer to issue a full refund and take the puppy back - then you can sell her to someone else.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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They took the pup to the opthalmologist last night. He looked her over pretty thorougly and did several tests. Says there will be slight vision loss in one area of her eye, however since she is so young she's never going to know the difference and it won't affect her long term at all. It appears to be healing ok, so he didn't feel anything further was necessary at this time.
The owners and I felt much better having an expert look at it. I'm going to pay for the cost of the vet visit (legally obligated to by my own contract) and give them $100 back to assuage my own guilt (though it isn't required by my contract).
Are you separating the remaining pups at all? I know you've got the cages set up and were talking about putting them in the cages more often. I haven't been around puppies much, especially a full litter, but when I was watching them wrestling on Saturday they seemed pretty rough to me, and I was worried about injuries.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
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Well prior to 8 weeks (when the injury happened) they really need to be with their littermates. It's part of how they learn they are dogs, and how the social structure of canines works. They are skills they need for the rest of their life. After 8 weeks it's ok to send them to their owners and begin the human-dog bonding process.
However with 10 puppies things were more chaotic than a "normal" litter of 6. I'd considerd breaking the litter in half 5 and 5, but really didn't have any good place to put the other half and keep them safe.
Now, the roughousing is important for muscle development as well as social. I don't have the individual time to walk each puppy to give it excercise. I'm doing good to make sure each gets 5-10 minutes of one on one time with me per day.
Many litters stay together til 12-16 weeks without any problems before going to their new owners. I just got unlucky.
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Unlucky with the injury or unlucky with the 10 puppies?
Your mention of the scar of honor caused me to envision this little dog running around the show floor with an eye patch. Arrrrgh- arf!
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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She is healthy and happy and our most adventurous cat.
