posted
I'm reading through Irvine Welsh's books, after falling in love with Trainspotting , which is set in Scotland, and written in REALLY thick dialect. I'm reading the sequel now. I like it a lot, but not as much as the first book.
Reason for post, other than because I'm stalling until I think of a non-stupid paper topic: I was wondering if anyone knows if the slang and dialect is relatively correct as it's written. Especially the prolific use of *hem* the c word as not only a derogatory term but also a sort of generic term for anyone at all, male or female, kind of like "guy". I love language and dialect, but I have *never* heard or read anything like this used.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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From all the British films I've seen recently, the "c" word seems to be THE word to go to when you want to express any emotion, be it fear, rage, kindness, or friendliness.
I'm citing Sexy Beast, Guy Ritchie movies, aaaand some other ones that I haven't seen in a long time.
[ April 29, 2005, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Book ]
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Honestly... I've never even heard anyone use that word in real life. To describe anyone or anything. I used to work in a place where people would use profanity to replace 'um' or 'like' in sentance breaks, or sometimes even as endearments (talking about a baby - 'Oh, the sweet little f***er'). But that word, never.
I've lived in Southern and Northern England, but I couldn't say about Scotland, they use some pretty weird words there. Somehow, though, I've always had the impression that it's the kind of word that only artists and showbusiness people use on a regular basis.
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I cuss with some frequency - well, maybe more that that. A lot. I have forgotten more foul language than most people know. I like to work in profanity the way some artists work in pastels. My husband said I could make a USMC Drill Instructor blush. Driving with me on Houston roads is always an enlightening experience, and some of my friends learn new words every time.
that being said, I save that word for rare occasions when someone (a woman usually) REALLY REALLY pisses me off. When that one comes out of my mouth, be prepared... Paint will peel and flesh will blister.
oh, and I'm half Irish, so that's why I'm in some small way qualified to even post in this thread, or so I figured...
posted
Gryphonesse - I feel a large amount of sympathy with your post. My father was a Drill Seargent, and I always tought of him as a fluent cusser. But when I got older I realized I'd never heard him say the F word. Didn't even know that it was a 'bad' word when I first saw it written on the elementary bathroom wall.
My beloved used to make fun of me for NOT cussing, ever. I'd say stuff, when I stubbed my toe or something, but it was usually like, "Pickles!" or something goofy. He kept after me and after me to say the words for him, like it was a game.
Now he routinely whistles "Popeye the Sailor Man" whenever I really let it rip. But I have kids now, so I'm trying to go back to "Pickles" as much as possible.
And the C word? First encountered it in a Stephen King novel, when I was 20 or 21. Had to ask what it meant. May have heard it once or twice since then. It just isn't something people say much in the circles I move in.
But I ain't Scottish. Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Yes, the dialect used in Trainspotting is accurate as far as lower-class people from Edinburgh go. Not all Scots speak this way! As for the c-word, yes, I think the use of that is accurate as well, as far as the groups depicted in the book go.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Apr 2005
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The characters in Trainspotting are mostly drug addicts, of little education, who do not work, and who live in poor areas. OR if they are from better-class backgrounds, they are trying to imitate the slang or dialect of the lower-class people in order to fit in or be cool. Most people do not swear as copiously as the characters in Trainspotting.
I hasten to add that there is a marked difference between the Scots dialect, which is not necessarily linked to class or socio-economic background at all, and the use of swearwords. However (sadly) Scots is rather unfairly linked to low socio-economic status, and is therefore rather stigmatised as result...
Interestingly, I think that the FILM version of Trainspotting eliminated most of the Scots dialect words that appear in the novel, but preserved most of the swearing. It still seemed incomprehensible to non-Scots, though!
Posts: 66 | Registered: Apr 2005
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By the way, there is a LOT of material on the web and in journals and books about the Scots dialect / language. I know, because I just wrote an essay on it for a sociolinguistics class last semester. There's at least one essay on the work of Irvine Welsh and the language his characters use, the reference to which I will dig up if anyone is interested.
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And I noticed that about the movie as well. Made me sad. I love it anyway though. But not as much as the book.
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Then, I think it is similar to the way people who live in or around Appalachia are veiwed in the US. They think we're all poor and uneducated, and usually assume we are also racist.
I hate that, mostly because you can find people like that if you look hard enough, but that isn't really true. It's something we joke about among ourselves when we are out in the larger world, telling people "Yeah, it's mah turn t'wear th' shoes today!"
It's annoying.
Incidentally, a great portion of those who first settled in the Appys were Scottish.
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There is a scene in the movie that has subtitles (even for English audiences). This is basically the Scots taking the pi$$ out of non-Scots who can't understand what we're saying. A bit of a response to the oft-quoted plea to "speak English!!!".
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My father was a Drill Seargent, and I always tought of him as a fluent cusser. But when I got older I realized I'd never heard him say the F word. Didn't even know that it was a 'bad' word when I first saw it written on the elementary bathroom wall.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
But I have kids now, so I'm trying to go back to "Pickles" as much as possible. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
