posted
With Hobbes in the MTC, I guess I will have to take on the job of Hatrack Tour de France 2005 reporter and commentator.
Yesterday was the First Stage. Rather than beginning the Tour with a prologue (a time trial shorter than 10 km). This years Tour began with a 19 km time trial, long enought to allow leaders to gain a significant time advantage. The real siginificance of this is that it makes it highly unlikely that any of the sprinters will be able to win the yellow jersey during the first week of the tour. It has been suggested that Lance might win the yellow jersey in the first stage and be able to wear it every day in the tour. Alas, it was not to be.
David Zabriski (native of Salt Lake City) won the first stage. Lance came in second, 2 seconds off the pace. Vinokurov placed 3, 53 seconds back and Jan Ullrich came in 1:08 off the lead.
When Lance crossed the line and found that he had lost to Zabrisky by two seconds, he threw a little tantrum, taking of his helmet and throwing it to the ground. Jan Ullrich was in a crash Thursday and lost some blood. He and his team said it was nothing major but after the stage 1 results they are saying it was a bigger deal than they thought.
[ July 12, 2005, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
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posted
Is anyone in a position to actually compete with Lance ? Ulrich seems old, at least he hasn't done well the past 2 years. Any new upcoming teams/stars ?
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Tom Boonen won the sprint beating Thor Husvold of Norway by a length. Boonen has had an excellent season so far and is in a good position to take the keep the green jersey.
Dave Zabriskie kept the yellow Jersey and still has a 2 point lead over Lance Armstrong.
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posted
Ullrich is still considered Lance's strongest challenger. He is younger than Lance. Two years ago he very nearly beat Lance in the tour. Last year he had the flu during the first half of the tour and has his worst finish ever. Yesterday he was in poor form but he was in a serious collision with a car the day before.
Don't count him out yet, he tends to get stronger as the Tour continues.
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posted
A note on Dave Zabriskie. He's a native of Salt Lake City. Two years ago during the preseason he was training in Millcreek canyon and was hit by a car pulling our of one of the Church Fork picnic area. The woman who hit him said she saw him coming but thought she had time to pull into the road before he got there. He had a severly broken leg, missed the racing season, lost his spot on the USPS team and nearly distroyed his career. She got a $60 fine.
I have riden a bicycle in this canyon many times. I will only do it in the early mornings now when there are few cars out. For some reason, Utah's got a real problem with drivers who don't give a darn about pedestrians and bicyclists.
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posted
Trust me, it's not a "Utah" problem. It's a drivers who think they're better than us problem.
I can't count how many times I've seen a driver avert their eyes and pretend they didn't see me because that would have meant they would have to yeild right of way.
Add to that the drivers who honk at me because I'm actually using the roadway, the one (passenger) who opened the door to force me off the road, and the really brilliant guys who prove their manhood by showing that their muscle cars can outrun a bicyclist (kinda startled the one who didn't, however), and you get the picture.
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posted
I didn't hear about Armstrong's fit. Jeez, he's 2 seconds behind, and over a minute ahead of his competition, and he's upset? What's that about?
I dunno, Armstrong is an excellent bicyclist, I'll give him that, but I don't find him as likeable as LeMond.
Also, I know he's tested regularly and all that, but he just seems too good. I don't mean to accuse too strongly, but something just doesn't seem right.
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posted
Individually it's the jerks that don't give right of way to bicyclists, but it's also a social problem because so many communities don't put in sidewalks or make the margins of roads wide enough.
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posted
In most places it is illegal for cyclists to ride on sidewalks -- as it should be.
Wide shoulders or even a bike path would not have helped Zabriskie in Millcreek canyon. The idiot driver pulled out in front of him when he was speeding down a steep hill.
Most cycling accidents involving adult cyclists occur at intersections. Wide shoulders and bicycle lanes don't help reduce those kinds of accidents, in fact several studies show they actually increase their likelihood.
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posted
"In most places it is illegal for cyclists to ride on sidewalks -- as it should be."
In fact, bicyclists are allowed to take a lane, and to ride two abreast in most states. They are only required to move right to allow traffic to pass, and even then, are not required to move right if the shoulder isn't adequate to ride on safely.
But most people (including cyclists) aren't aware of this, and since people feel that the cyclist is supposed to stay to the right, they think that they aren't allowed on the road.
In fact, it's often safer to ride IN TRAFFIC so that drivers can't ignore you. Just as a car stops traffic when it's waiting at an intersection to turn left, a bicycle does the same, but if the bike is trying to turn left from the right side, it's an accident waiting to happen. Likewise if the bike waits in the center so that cars are passing on the right while the bike waits for an opportunity to turn left. You really have to block the lane to be safe.
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Bike paths and regulations which incourage cyclists to ride as far to the right as is practicable are for the convenience of automobile drivers NOT for the safety of cyclists.
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posted
Sure, there are lots of bad drivers who don't respect cyclists' right of way. But there are also many cyclists who don't follow the rules and endanger themselves and others. Riding between lanes of stop and go traffic is very dangerous. Running red lights, using pedestrian signals when convenient and traffic signals when convenient. Riding in the road when a bike path is right there. Passing on the right shoulder when a car is turning right and signalling to do so. Going the wrong way down one-way streets.
I see cyclists blatantly disregard the general rules of the road every single time I go into the city.
Face it, it's not drivers who are jerks about right of ways. It's people, on bikes, in cars, or on foot.
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posted
Yes Dag, but when a cyclist violates the law they are endangering only themselves. When a car driver violates the laws, they endanger all the other users of the road. That's why we require car drivers to have licenses and we don't require it of cyclists.
What's more, your comment is utterly irrelevant. If a cyclist breaks the law, they should be ticketed and appropriately fined. It in no way justifies car drivers who break the law.
Would you ever argue, "Its too bad that s Honda driver was hit head on by a drunk driver in an Hummer and killed but before you start blaming all the drunk drivers and Hummers let me tell you about all the Honda drivers I've seen running stop signs."?
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posted
I took Dag's point as people can suck no matter what type of transportation they're using.
I've seen both--car drivers that don't give a crap about cyclists, and cyclists who don't give a crap about the rules of the road.
And actually, cyclists not obey the rules of the road COULD cause serious injury to people other than themselves.
I AM a cyclist, but I haven't biked in awhile because I'm too afraid. There's no shoulder room in this place, there's a law prohibiting using the sidewalks (I wouldn't WANT to use the sidewalk, though), and there's little obeyed about the rules of the road regarding bicycles on either side.
It's dangerous. Outright dangerous and taking your life in your own hands if you want to do any type of serious road biking in this town. I desperately want to bike but can't figure out where to DO it. Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Yes Dag, but when a cyclist violates the law they are endangering only themselves.
B.S. I've been sent to the emergency room by a bicyclist, never by a car. And when they cause cars to react, they create more danger for those around them.
quote:When a car driver violates the laws, they endanger all the other users of the road. That's why we require car drivers to have licenses and we don't require it of cyclists.
I think we should license bicyclists.
quote:What's more, your comment is utterly irrelevant. If a cyclist breaks the law, they should be ticketed and appropriately fined. It in no way justifies car drivers who break the law.
Congratulations. You've refuted an argument nobody made.
quote:Would you ever argue, "Its too bad that s Honda driver was hit head on by a drunk driver in an Hummer and killed but before you start blaming all the drunk drivers and Hummers let me tell you about all the Honda drivers I've seen running stop signs."?
No. Did I argue anything like that here? No.
Why don't you respond to what I wrote, instead of making stuff up I didn't say. It's not like you still won't find plenty of things to argue with me about if you stick to what I actually advocate.
In case you missed it, my main point was: "Face it, it's not drivers who are jerks about right of ways. It's people, on bikes, in cars, or on foot."
Emotions running rampant. (not good in a traffic situation)
I only see bicyclists blatantly ignoring rules in cities. Specifically when they are contending with too much traffic. Drivers seem to get more aggressive and stupid in cities also.
Perhaps the real issue is that cities have too much traffic. After 9/11 New York restricted incoming cars to those with at least two passengers. It reduced the number of cars altogether, and a lot of people noticed that driving in the city was a lot more civil. I'd be curious to know if bicyclists got more civil also.
Some time ago I read about a Chinese effort to "get bicycles off the road, to make room for cars." The point of the article was that since you can fit something like 20 bikes in the space that a car takes up (including leading and following) that what really needs to happen is that they should get rid of the cars so there is more room for cyclists.
My opinion? We need to get rid of cars because they use too much fuel, pollute, kill people and animals, and encourage urban sprawl. Making more room for bikes would be a plus.
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quote:Congratulations. You've refuted an argument nobody made.
Then perhaps you can explain to me why you, in response to complaints about an automobile driver severly injuring Zabrisie by failing to yield right of way you chose to point out than many cyclist also disobey traffic laws. What relevance was this supposed to have to the discussion if it wasn't to suggest that Glenn and I have no right to complain that our lives are routinely endangered by incompetent automobile drivers.
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posted
Because, and I really can't believe I have to say this again, I was making this larger point: "Face it, it's not drivers who are jerks about right of ways. It's people, on bikes, in cars, or on foot." To make an even larger point: traffic safety is everybody's responsibility, and representatives from all major traffic participants do things that make the road less safe for everybody.
Did the fact that I included drivers in the list of jerks escape you? Did I use the word "justify" or "because" in my post? Did I say you and Glenn had no right to complain?
I'm really at a loss as to why you felt the need to jump all over me on this. Was I wrong in any of the things I actually said? You seemed to think so at first, but I notice you didn't respond to my explanation as to why bicyclists who violate safety rules endanger others, not just themselves.
As to the topic of discussion, it was the Tour de France, which included the discussion of a single incident in which a bad driver injured a cyclist. From there it moved beyond the single incident to a general discussion of safety.
If you and Glenn feel justified in pointing out other things than what this woman did that drivers do that endanger bikers - something I have no problem with and didn't complain about - then I am justified in further expanding the discussion to include things I have witnessed that endanger other people in traffic.
Your point is completely valid, but it does seem like your initial post has a flavor of shifting the blame to it.
I can't put my finger on why, but I think the reason The Rabbit reacted to your initial post is just emotional. Likewise your response to his response was emotional.
I don't know if you are including me in your reaction to Rabbit, but when you say "you and Glenn" I feel like I'm included. My previous post was intended to divert blame from people, to a situation. I guess it didn't have the intended effect.
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posted
No, it did (Edit: divert blame, that is). I see nothing wrong with any of your posts - I tried to indicate that. I was trying to include you because I saw what I did as the same. Namely, posting a more general statement inspired by the preceeding less general statements: One hurt cyclist because of a driver's carelessness --> many careless drivers making it dangerous for bicyclists --> many dangerous people making it dangerous for others in traffic.
I have no problem at all with any of the posts about stupid drivers, by you or Rabbit. What I specifically object to is being responded to as if I'm blaming the victim (or, more accurately, blaming people with a characteristic in common with the victim).
posted
Yeah it was perfect timing when I was crossing that street and that old lady made a blind turn and mowed me down! I was worried she may miss at first than BOOM. Plan when off with out a hitch. does this story make much sense? like It's my fault I was nearly killed by a car?
Lets get back to Lance
ok trivia question: of the 6 tours he's won how many legs of the race has he won?
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quote:Yeah it was perfect timing when I was crossing that street and that old lady made a blind turn and mowed me down! I was worried she may miss at first than BOOM. Plan when off with out a hitch. does this story make much sense? like It's my fault I was nearly killed by a car?
posted
I was just pointing out how ridicules it is for someone to try and argue that your taking a stance of making the person who comes out the least fortunate from an accident responsible for it.
Yes, in a perfect world we would drive and ride along hand in hand sipping natural spring water. but that's not the case, and yes most often the laws are for the cars convenience, not the bikes *that is very true Rabbit* However You do have to admit that some places are more advanced in that respect than others. I would point out Davis Ca it's a college town which may be part of it, but it is the MOST bike friendly place I have ever been.
we must not leave out the last Friday in every month around San Francisco. Critical Mass, the bikes take over at rush hour.
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posted
I'm not clear on what you're saying. He's won 7 stages?
I'm pretty sure he won once without winning a stage, but I thought an average of 1 per tour would be ironic.
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posted
I do apologies. let me clarify. this his 7th tour so that means this may be a mutable number but to date Lance has won 20 legs out of the 6 races he has completed to date
the answer is 20
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I think the number is alot higher than that, since you wear the yellow jersey on every day in which you hold the overall lead on the race.
Lance has won more stages of the Tour de France than any other current rider, but he does not hold the record. That still belongs to Eddy Merckx who one 35 stages and 5 tours. It is widely believed that Merckx would have won a sixth tour if he had not been assaulted by a fan who broke his ribs during the tour.
No matter how Lance performs in this, his final, race -- He will never be as great as Eddy Merckx. Merckx won every race their was to win.
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Stage 3 was another largely flat stage. There were 3 category 4 climbs (smallest ranked) but still largely flat.
Erik Dekker along with 2 lesser known riders made an early break just 34 km into the race. Erik has won races before with just this kind of tactic. Today he managed to stay in the lead for 179 km (about 1.5 km too little to win the race). It's so sad to be caught that close to the line but it is fairly common.
The race ended in a sprint finish with Tom Boonen of Belgium taking the honors for the second day in a row.
Peter Wrohlich (Austria) finished second and Stuart O'Grady (Australia) third place. Robbie McEwen (Australia) who was a favorite to win this stage got boxed in during the sprint between O'Grady and Wrohlich and behind Boonen. In a rather bizarre move, he banged his head into O'Grady's shoulder several times. The judges decided that this was intensional and so he was relegated to last place in the group and O'Grady was award the third place.
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posted
Stagee 4 Results: This was a team time trial so results are by team. It was a sad day for David Zabriskie. He and his team were in the lead coming into the final stretch (2 s ahead of Discovery) when Dave crashed into a barrier. He was back on his bike and riding covered with blood very quickly but given the chance to win the team did not wait for him (The team gets the time of the fifth rider to cross the line). Because he didn't arrive with his team, he is awarded his actual time not the team time. Although the team did not wait for them, his crash could easily have thrown them off enough to account for the 4 seconds they lost in the last leg. In the end, the team finished 2 seconds back from Discovery. If Zabriskie had finished with the team, he would have kept the yellow leaders Jersey since he started the day 2 seconds ahead of Lance. Bad breaks for Zabriskie.
posted
Just in case anybodies still reading. Lance started today's stage without the Yellow Jersey in deference to the fact that Zabrisky lost it yesterday in a crash. This has been done previously when the yellow jersey wearer was too badly injured to continue the race. Zabrisky, however, was at the starting line today. Although he was pretty badly hurt he didn't actually break anything and insisted on continuing.
Shortly into the race, the tour directed stopped in entire peleton so Lance could dawn the yellow jersey.
No other news on today stage so far.
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posted
I had never heard the word peleton before last night, when it was part of a trivia question and I couldn't answer it. If only you had posted that word yesterday Rabbit!
posted
Actually he didn't wear the jersey in the neutral zone. They made him put the jersey on at the starting line. Normally the peleton has a "neutral" zone, where they are already rolling, before the actually beginning of the race. Lets everyone get warmed up and organized before they actually cross the starting line.
quote: 13:04 - Riders Rolling In The Neutral Zone The peloton is currently rolling through the 5km neutral zone on the way to the site of the official start.
13:10 - Riders Asked To Stop At 0km Mark The race organizers have asked the riders to stop at the site of the official start. Usually the peloton just rolls out of the neutral zone and the start of racing is signaled when a white flag is dropped from the race director’s car. No reason has been given for the request today.
13:18 - Peloton At Site Of Official Start The peloton has come to a halt at the site of the official start. There is still no explanation for the stop.
13:24 - Racing In Stage Five The official start time for stage five is 1.21pm. The reason for the stop at the 0km mark is because Lance Armstrong didn’t want to wear the yellow jersey during the neutral zone. He wore his Discovery Channel outfit for the 5km ride to the site of the official start. The peloton then came to a halt so that Armstrong could don the yellow jersey for the stage. It was a sign of respect for Dave Zabriskie who lost the overall lead after crashing in the final 2km of stage four.
(note from other sources: the race directors specifically asked Lance to wear yellow, otherwise he wouldn't have worn it the entire day)
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Sorry it’s been a little while. I finished the Giro and now it’s about time for another one of those GT’s. I’ve been getting a good amount of mail into this website of mine. The most asked question seems to be the following: Are you Mormon Dave Z. ? Now I have a question for all of you – Do you see a CTR (choose the right) ring on my finger? No disrespect but I’m not Mormon.
After the Giro I took it easy for about 10 days. I then went back to Italy for a good block of training with some of my teammates. Bjarne was writing me a training schedule on the plane to the TTT and I said for Monday you can just write go to Barcelona and see Batman and Starwars – and so he did. Never known to deviate from my training schedule I put my SRM on the charger and drove to the movie theatre. This was my first time seeing a movie in Europe and it kicked ass! I grew up a huge Batman fan, my first jobs were to support my action figure habit, but after few years I had an epiphany: I would never be able to complete the collection because of…well…capitalism. It was then I thought I would just buy some blue tights and become the action figure. I never found any crime in my neighborhood because of…well…the Mormons. My career as a vigilante then stopped, or did it?
quote: 5/24/2005
Only 5 stages left of the Giro. Ivan had a bad last couple of days and his hopes of winning the Giro are over. This is the life, things go wrong but life goes on. I’m enjoying a rest day here drinking cappuccino one after the other and still passing out. Yesterday they shortened the stage and I don’t know who made the final decision but I think the sport is getting a little more sensible. There is just no reason to descend a mountain in the freezing rain from the beginning of a race. The way they handled the snow at Paris Nice earlier in the year was very nice also. When I reached the top of the Stelvio it was like being on the moon. I stopped and put some extra clothes on and then took off down the other side. I was warned earlier in the day about the tunnels on the downhill, they are narrow, dark, wet, and twisty. So your going down a mountain letting it all hang out and then bam you're blind and you slam on the brakes but not to hard or your going to slip and fall in the water then try to decide which way the road is turning. It was seriously like something out of Lord of the Rings, I wish I had some elvish light with me, but it all turned out ok. Here is an on the bike interview with Charlie Wegelius of the Liquigas Team.
DZ: Charlie have you ever actually had Liquigas?
CW: You mean like when the s*#t comes out of your a$$ in a Liquid?
posted
Actually tabi, you're wrong. He may have won 20 stages (though I'm not entirely sure of that number either), but he's spent a lot more days in the yellow jersey.
posted
Just wanted Rabbit and AJ and others to know I am reading. I don't know enough to comment much, but I enjoy hearing the recaps and news. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Robbie McEwen (Australia) won todays stage in a bunch sprint for the line. It was a tricky finish because there was a sharp turn just 600 m before the finish line. McEwen managed to position himself on Tom Boonen's wheel. When Boonen kicked it for the finish line, McEwen used the draft off of his wheel to catapult himself to the line just ahead of Boonen. (note: This is a classic strategy)
Unfortunately for Robbie, it would take a miracle for him to win the green sprinters jersey now after the penalty he received two days ago.
Boonen is currently way out ahead in the green jersey competition. He has a a 29 point lead on Husvold, a 30 point lead over O'Grady and a 45 point lead on McEwen.
No change in the general classification (yellow jersey competition today.
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posted
Stage 6 just crashed over the finish line. Yikes.
There was a 5 man break that lead the race most of the day. Four of them were caught in the last 5 kilometers, but the fifth, Mengin of France, is riding into his home town and manages to stay seconds ahead of the peleton until he is within spitting distance of the finish line. Two men from the Peleton, Alexander Vinokurov (3rd place overall in 2003 and team mate of Ullrich) and Lorenzo Bernucci attack and catch Mengin just as the route takes a sharp left turn. Mengin crashes on the wet road. Nearly the entire Peleton including all of the sprinters go down with Mengin. Bernucci manages to completely avoid the crash and takes the stage win. Vinokurov doesn't go down but is stopped briefly and finishes 3 seconds behind Bernucci.
Armstrong was delayed by the crash and did make it to the finish with the first group. He is saved by a rule which gives all the riders in the Peleton the same finish time when there is a crash within the kilometer (maybe 3 kilometers) of the finish.
Vinokurov picked up 15 seconds on Armstrong via a time bonus on the stage, the other overall standings remain the same.
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posted
Rich and I are about to leave for Karlsruhe where we will see the Tour de France live. I won't have computer access for the next few days but I will post updates when I return.
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posted
In the last 4 days everything has changed in the Tour. Saturday, T-Mobile attacked relentlessly until Lance was isolated from his team and then Klöden attacked to take some serious time on Lance. T-Mobile is riding with three men all of whom have finished on the Tour podium in the past two years (Ullrich, Klöden and Vinokurov). They set things up perfectly on saturday. Ullrich sat on Lances wheel all day so that if Lance tried anything, he was there to counter. Vino attacked over and over so that Discover would be forced to expend alot of energy chasing. When Discover had fallen apart from all the effort chasing Vino, Klöden attacked and Lance wasn't able to counter. The day was marred only slightly by Klöden's loss to Wenning at the line in a photo finish which the judges awarded to Wenning by 8 mm.
Sunday, Lance Armstrong lost the yellow Jersey to Jens Voigt of CSC. It's unclear whether Discover decided not to chase him down and make the same mistake they made yesterday or if they were unable to defend after yesterdays effort. The German's are psyched to have a German wearing yellow in France. His paper was on front pages everywhere yesterday. Unfortunately, Jan Ullrich crashed early in the day and is pretty banged up leaving some questions about T-mobiles strength going into the mountains. Jens Voigt has been having a fantastic season and it is not out of the question that CSC could keep the jersey but Voigt is not a great mountain climber.
Sadly, Zabriskie had to drop from the race because of injuries suffered in his crash during the team time trial. CSC will miss him in the mountains during the coming days.
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posted
Team Discovery erased any doubts raised over the weekend with their performance today. Lance retook the yellow jersey with a commanding performance in the first mountain top finish of this years tour. He now has a sizable lead over all of those considered top contenders.
It was really an incredible performance by the Discovery team. As they approached the final hill climb, the entire team was leading the peleton. They just kept ramping up the pace as rider after rider shed off from the group.
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