posted
Paul Harvey mentioned this study on his noon news broadcast: Redheaded women feel less pain (that is just one of several articles on the study that came up when I Googled it)
Guess that explains why I never needed any anesthetics when I had my three children -- never felt the need to. Probably why I also need to work on my sympathy for others who whine about pain.
(I wonder why it is only women, and not redheaded men) Farmgirl
posted
Well, there you go. Blondes have more fun, but if you're going to have a baby, better to be a redhead. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am scared of my wife. She's planning on giving birth naturally again. I get ill just thinking about it.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I used to have a study that I can't put my fingers on right now that said that endometriosis was more common in redheads.
I wish I could find it, it was very interesting. Especially for me, since my family is chock full of redheads and strawberry blondes and every woman in our family going back three generations has been diagnosed with endometriosis. I mean every one. My grandmother and her sister, my mother and my mother's three sisters, me and my three female cousins.
Most of us have red hair or are like me - my hair is brown with natural red highlights but my mom is a redhead.
It's possible those studies are related. I know we're in the realm of conjecture here, but bear with me. Endo's main symptom is pain. Is it possible that women with endo experience so much pain in their lives they build up a tolerance and are able to handle pain better?
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
I do want to give birth naturally again. But I'm not sure I can do it without support. Last time my sis-in-law who is a massage therapist was there with me throughout my pregnancy as well as the birth. She won't be around this time.
It just seems wrong for me to demand that Porter be there for me every moment when he is fighting every instinct just to be in the same room with me. I still want him there, but I can't count on him. In every birth, he has had the freedom to leave the room when he needs to. Otherwise we'd have two patients in there.
I don't know what I'll do. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Interesting. This is the exact opposite of a study released last year that showed redheads being more sensitive to pain. Apparently, further research has shown that this tolerance to pain only applies to female redheads... Here is another article that discuess the matter more:
quote:Two recent studies suggest that women with natural red hair color have an increased risk of developing endometriosis.
The studies quoted are cited below.
quote:15. Woodworth SH, Singh M, Yussman MA, Sanfilippo JS, Cook CL, Lincoln SR. A prospective study on the association between red hair color and endometriosis in infertile patients. Fertil Steril. 1995;64:651-652.
16. Frisch RE, Wyshak G, Albert LS, Sober AJ. Dysplastic nevi, cutaneous melanoma and gynecologic disorders. Int J Dermatol. 1992;31:331-335.
There is speculation that the same gene that causes red hair and fair skin also makes one susceptible to autoimmune disorders. There is also a link between endo and melanoma. That could just be the red hair link, though because red heads are definitely at higher risk of developing melanoma.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
bev, are you planning on homebirth or a birthing center or hospital? Most birthing centers have doulas available through them. Or you can check Doula Network or Midwifery Today, both of which have searchable doula listings.
(I hope I'm not suggesting something you've already tried.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I read that redheads have worse luck than other people. I think it was in a Chinese face-reading book, which is funny because of all the red-heads in China (not).
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
You're insisting on that even though birthing centers are often (depending on the center) just as safe or safer and are a more supportive environment for the woman who wants a truly natural childbirth without intervention as long as possible, have medically trained staff (nurse-midwives), and often have doctors on staff as well for emergencies?
Not ragging on you, just curious as to whether you had all the available information. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
KQ, I wish there were a birthing center in the area. You'd think with all the women giving birth in Utah Valley, someone would think of it. But no, most women here still go to OBs. Doctors tend to have a far more rigid view of birth as a medical process and seem less concerned about the holistic aspect. I am glad to get away from that!
I go to a CN Midwife. They are rising in popularity here, which I think is *very* good. Maybe birthing centers would be next. I have even joked about starting up a birthing center and seeing how much money I could make. (The hospitals here are still pretty strict--nothing but ice chips, no waterbirths, etc.) But I'm no entrepreneur.
I am not up for giving birth at home, unfortunately.
I have not tried those links yet, I will take a look now.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Depending on your doctor and the extent to which you are able to make your wishes clear and understood, most hospitals are extremely supportive of natural childbirth. In fact, where I delivered, my nurse had delivered naturally herself and was very supportive and helpful when I attempted to deliver naturally with my first child.
Hospitals have huge advantages too that no birth center can match - ORs right down the hall and anesthesiologists and OB's on call for emergency surgeries. Granted, most of the time it's not necessary, but when it IS necessary, I would want myself or someone I love as close to that emergency intervention as possible. mph's insistence is perfectly understandable.
Considering that two of my four children were in distress and required the intervention of a physician during delivery, I'm a big proponent of hospital birth. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Will they press on my back and hold the pressure point on my arm for nausea? At the same time?
Will they rub my feet with lotion and hum to me?
It is true that my hospital is fine with natural births. My midwives work exclusively there, and while certainly not all their patients even want to go natural, a lot do.
I think that a good birthing center should have access to those same things. Being located near a hospital or even connected to one would be fine. But they would have more relaxed regulations (like on the things I mentioned above) and they would be dedicated to having a birthing experience tailored to the mother's needs/desires rather than so focused on medical emergency.
Don't get me wrong, I love the hospital I delivered my three children at. But I am frustrated with some of their regulations. They feel a bit too tight for my liking.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Speaking of pressure points, there are several that are used for pain in childbirth. Spleen-6, above the ankle, and the Gallbladder point in the trapezius neck/back muscle. There are others.
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
That is exactly why I would go to a birthing center if a good one was available and I wanted a natural experience. (Personally, I tense up when in pain, so no dice on the natural childbirth for me.) I think being on a hospital campus is an excellent thing, too, since I think it's a good thing to have an OR nearby, as well as an NICU within a minute or two. But I agree, many hospitals still have regulations that stymie things for women's birthing experiences even when an OB or CNM is willing to accommodate them.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Will they press on my back and hold the pressure point on my arm for nausea? At the same time?
Will they rub my feet with lotion and hum to me?
There's certainly no rules in most hospitals AGAINST these things - while your nurse herself may not be trained on the particular techniques you are wanting, there's no reason why someone else can't. Rubbing my feet and humming to me sounds like an excellent job for my husband, actually.
My nurse did do things like fold heated blankets and put them behind my back for relief, hold my hand and talk soothingly to me through contractions, give me advice on my breathing, etc. In my hospital you were also assigned one nurse, who stayed with you, she wasn't going back and forth checking on other patients, she was there for the duration with you.
There's no reason to turn this into an argument over which type of birth is better, I think every woman should make her choice, but she should make an informed choice. Just like most women who want a safe birth aren't educated on birthing centers and think hospitals are their only option, many people who want a natural birth aren't educated on how accomodating the hospitals can be. There is misinformation on both sides, and I just wanted to make sure that the flow of information on the thread goes in both directions.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote: But I agree, many hospitals still have regulations that stymie things for women's birthing experiences even when an OB or CNM is willing to accomadate them.
Amen. My CNM are required to uphold hospital policy about the no food/drink rule. But they don't personally believe in it. When I asked them, they said, eat/drink if you want to, I'll turn a blind eye. Just don't let them see you doing it. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, bev, you should try the Utah Doula Association. And if you call around (or e-mail), I bet you'll be able to find one trained in massage, too!
And there's an 888 number at the bottom of that page; they could probably tell you if any in your area are instead of you having to go through all of them. Of course, you might want to talk to all the ones in your area. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:But I agree, many hospitals still have regulations that stymie things for women's birthing experiences even when an OB or CNM is willing to accommodate them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And let's not forget, there are really good reasons for those rules. For example, I was distressed that I couldn't deliver my twins in a birthing room. My doctor accomodated my wish for a vaginal birth (and my daughter was breech, so that was a huge accomodation on his part many doctors wouldn't have considered it), but he insisted I give birth in the OR.
Turns out my daughter flipped transverse after my son was born, and for a few agonizing minutes they weren't able to locate her heart rate and were afraid the placenta might have separated, putting both her and me in severe danger. Because I was in the OR, they were prepared to do an immediate C-section which would have saved our lives. Thank God my doctor was able to turn her and deliver her and she was fine, but for a few moments they were preparing for the c-section and I was profoundly grateful I was in the OR. Even though it would only have been a matter of minutes to get me from a birthing room to the OR, those minutes could have meant the difference between life and death for my baby.
Doctors don't do things just to annoy you or make you uncomfortable. There are very good reasons for their rules. Granted, in a normal childbirth, the rules don't matter. But if something goes wrong they matter a great deal.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote: while your nurse herself may not be trained on the particular techniques you are wanting, there's no reason why someone else can't.
I think I do want a doula.
You have to understand, Porter will do his best for me, always has. But he is fighting his own fear/panic/revulsion/nausea/shock and I can't *count* on him for *anything*.
Last time, he and my sis-in-law worked together as a team. It was pretty cool. When I had severe back-pain through transition, her pressing on my back was the only thing that got me through it. But when I was about to throw up, she was able to tell Porter right where to press on my arm to help supress the feeling. I don't care if the effect was only psycosomatic--it worked for me!
But on top of this, she cleaned my house for me each week during my last month or so, gave me massages, anticipated and gabbed long hours with me, and was an excellent friend and companion through it all.
I'm not sure if money can buy as good a service as I got from her.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: It's possible those studies are related. I know we're in the realm of conjecture here, but bear with me. Endo's main symptom is pain. Is it possible that women with endo experience so much pain in their lives they build up a tolerance and are able to handle pain better?
Belle - that was very interesting.
Because over 10 years ago, I had a huge endometrial tumor, the size of a canteloupe -- that was found during a regularly yearly female exam. I had NO pain. The doctor was amazed because he said some women come in, in great agony, with a tiny spot of edometriosis, and here I had this huge amount and never knew it. (and still have problems with endo, but no pain).
posted
bev, some doulas do provide live-in service before and/or after birth, and all good doulas make sure they spend plenty of time with you before hand to bond with you and become friends, and they always make themselves available to listen when you need a cry or a talk. Ask them up-front when you're interviewing them what kind of services they provide and be open about your needs, and you should be able to find someone who suits. Hopefully. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Belle, I guess having twins is always considered a high risk situation. It is totally understandable that you'd want to make sure all the provisions close at hand from the start.
Same would go for any laboring mother with a breech-position baby.
VBACs might be borderline.
(I'm imagining in my little dream-world running a birthing center and advising high-risk birth mothers to strongly consider the hospital. )
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with Porter. Everything was fine with my mom with her first going in, but it got bad very quickly. The baby died, and my mom would have if she hadn't been in a hospital.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't particularly want to give birth at home. But I do like the idea of a place that has all the medical advantages/resources of a hospital but is more relaxed about birth and focused on the holistic approach.
I would like to have a waterbirth. But while my hospital just recently put jacuzzis in every birthing room, waterbirths are strictly prohibited (not enough room for a CNM or OB to maneuver.) I don't like the idea of getting into that nice, warm water in labor only to have to get out again into the bitterly cold air as my child is ready to come out! No thanks!
Maybe I should start a birthing center. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
(Redheads may feel less pain, but they cause more of it. Severe Heart-Burn. )
There can be good reasons for restrictions on eating. If you do eat, just make sure there is always someone there who will tell the nurse or physician if things go bad fast and you need to get to an OR (like Olivia or Belle). They may need to pump your stomach first, if they have time. General anesthesia would make you suck all that into your lungs.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hospitals are important and wonderful to have when you need them. I would certainly recommend having a first baby in hospital or a fully equiped birthing centre (I did). However there are many down sides to the hospital setting and I have to say I'm really glad to have had home births for my subsequent children.
I would certainly go to hospital were I expecting twins or a breech delivery or had other risk factors. However most of these things are predictable before hand, especially if you have successfully given birth before.
Also, midwives (of the certified variety) and doctors who do home births are NOT limited to hot water. They bring significant equipement with them for unexpected problems. I also don't think I'd recommend home birth to women who are a great distance away from their back up hospital.
I think the most important consideration is what works for a particular family but I don't like the implication that having a baby away from hospital is irresponsible. Just my two cents.
Posts: 251 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Just out of curiosity, if the patient bed were inclined while a birthing mother was given general anesthesia, would the danger of breathing in stomach contents be there?
Also, considering there is almost certainly stuff in my stomach *anyway*, why the restriction? I can understand it being a bad idea to stuff myself while in labor, but I imagine few laboring women *want* to do that.
But a little water, please!
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Because over 10 years ago, I had a huge endometrial tumor, the size of a canteloupe -- that was found during a regularly yearly female exam. I had NO pain.
BTW This isn't uncommon. While endometriosis can cause mind boggling amounts of pain, this is appearantly unrelated to the level of disease. Many women with stage 4 endo are only diagnosed when they either seek treatment for infertility or have cysts/tumours. Other women have stage one disease and are completely disabled by pain.
It is unclear why this happens but may be related to differing imflammatory response to the internal bleeding.
Posts: 251 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Belle: There is speculation that the same gene that causes red hair and fair skin also makes one susceptible to autoimmune disorders. There is also a link between endo and melanoma. That could just be the red hair link, though because red heads are definitely at higher risk of developing melanoma.
Interesting! There's a lot of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome on my mom's side of the family, which, coincidentally, also has a lot of redheads. We also seem to have a lot of joint problems.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Just out of curiosity, if the patient bed were inclined while a birthing mother was given general anesthesia, would the danger of breathing in stomach contents be there?
First of all, it is highy unlikely you would need to go under general anesthesia. However, part of my training was to be called to such situations, so the "problem cases" are over-represented in my own experience of attending births. (That is, don't freak out. This isn't likely to happen, but if it does, whoever is with you needs to know to speak up and be frank, because you may not be able to.)
In a "crash c-section" where the baby has to come out as soon as possible, there is less than 15 minutes to get into the uterus. I've seen them cut into a uterus less than 5 minutes after calling a crash section. There isn't any time for anything but putting the woman flat, knocking her out and inserting a breathing tube, and doing the surgery.
This is very different from a planned or even "emergency c-section." There is more flexibility for technique then. But remember that whenever you go under general anesthesia, all the muscles in the body relax, including the ones at the top of the stomach. Have you ever had reflux up into your throat (breath tastes like vomit) even if you're sitting upright, sometimes after a burp? That is what can happen even if your muscles have normal tone.
quote:Also, considering there is almost certainly stuff in my stomach *anyway*, why the restriction? I can understand it being a bad idea to stuff myself while in labor, but I imagine few laboring women *want* to do that.
But a little water, please!
It's just like instructions for any major surgery (again, this is for general anesthesia). You know how they say not to drink or eat anything after midnight, or for such-and-such number of hours before a surgery? It's because of the anesthesia-associated risks of aspiration. And yes, even little bits count.
I'd never tell you not to do anything. Not my style and not my business! Just encourage you to be sure that someone professionally involved knows when you last had anything to eat or drink should the unforeseeable happen. It isn't a good time to fudge around. (I was present when a woman with sudden placental abruption had to be anesthetized for a crash c-section, and she aspirated. her husband was afraid to say she'd been eating toast and cheese, or maybe he didn't know it would really matter. She made it through okay, but she did have to spend some days in the ICU away from her baby. )
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Very interesting. My aunt is a strawberry blonde and also had a huge endometrial tumor years ago. She also suffered from a huge amount of pain daily because of a car accident she was in when she was in her mid twenties but has been told that the pain her injuries inflict would floor other people.
Weeeeird.
...what IS a strawberry blonde anyway? A redhead or a blonde?
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
But the logic here is that it is *highly* unlikely that any laboring woman coming into the hospital will have been fasting long enough for general anesthesia to be safe *anyway*.
So considering the rarity of the need for general anesthesia in birth, why require this in-hospital when most women have already ruined the chances of it being safe?
Why not instead have the policy be that the woman (or whoever came with her) should report what she has been eating/drinking for the last few hours? If she qualifies for safe GA, then maybe counseling her to keep doing so would actually be worthwhile. Otherwise, it just seems like needless beaurocracy.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
bev, here is some more info about aspiration pneumonia. Again, it isn't common! Just worth knowing why some of the rules are there and what to do if you were to have "bent" them in certain situations.
Water is easier for the body to quickly absorb than anything else. Anything flavored, though, can stimulate additional acid production in the stomach and -- again, in those rare cases -- make the risks higher if general anesthesia is given.
I've heard women complain that the nurses just don't want to have to clean up things if the woman were to puke. From being behind doors with OB nurses, I can tell you that this hasn't come up in any conversations I've overheard. (Besides, it's often -- though far from always -- our friendly janitorial staff that do the clean-up. *smile) If we heard that someone who was on restrictions had been eating and drinking anyway, the conversation turned to calculating her likelihood of needing anesthesia.
All sorts of stuff gets slopped around in delivery rooms sometimes. Even with uncomplicated vaginal births, there is blood and poop and amnioic fluid and whatnot. Some vomit is no biggie. Sending your patient to the ICU is.
Again -- just remember that someone knows and can (and will) convey that information if they need to. If it were to come up, they can suck some of the stomach stuff back out, and they can use a larger diameter breathing tube to help close off areas tighter (but that isn't as good for your windpipe). Also affects what anesthetics they may choose and some of the techniques they use.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:BTW This isn't uncommon. While endometriosis can cause mind boggling amounts of pain, this is appearantly unrelated to the level of disease. Many women with stage 4 endo are only diagnosed when they either seek treatment for infertility or have cysts/tumours. Other women have stage one disease and are completely disabled by pain
That was interesting, Miriya, and I'll add it to my information. I really don't know much about endo, even though I have it, because it hasn't disrupted my lifestyle very much. I didn't realize there were identified different "stages" of it. I will read up on it.
posted
I am not one to assume that the regulation is to keep nurses from having to clean up. I mean, I make enough mess giving birth with other fluids! Some more foul than vomit.
At least hospitals don't require enemas anymore.
So, if water is the easiest to absorb, I am certainly not going to feel guilty about sneaking water during labor. Especially since I probably just had a big meal before coming in. But I will resent having to sneak it.
Out of curiosity, when giving general anesthesia how possible/difficult would it be to put a tube in the esophagus or a draining hose (like what the dentists use to remove excess fluids)? How effective would that be in removing the danger? And why wouldn't it be regulation to do that anyway, since the danger is life threatening?
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I vomited even fasting during labor, so I can testify that isn't it.
I am very curious, though: why are women allowed ice chips but not water? Some hospitals even allow you to put flavoring on the ice chips (like a snow cone.) I was so thirsty during labor-- even with an IV pumping saline into me-- that I went through about 10 cups of ice chips in only a couple of hours. (No flavoring on mine.)
And when you let them sit a little, they turn into water anyway. So why do they let you have ice chips but not water? It just seems kind of idiotic to me.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
KQ, I think it is to keep you from taking in too much water. If it is in the form of ice, you can't gulp it like you wanna. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
