posted
Yes, I know, there's been discussion about this before, but I've just finished reading it, the last one, I mean, and am still trying to work out what I think. I loved the series, grew to love Roland, and so am a bit horrified that he appears condemned to repeat (at least once more) the whole journey. Not sure what is really going on. I hate to think that it's a case of Stephen King not being able to think of what to do with the ending, as that spoils the whole illusion of reality thing for me. I prefer to try and find some internal-to-the-story logic for it. And by the way, I loved the way he put himself into the last two books. I found that really intriguing. So anyway that's my thoughts half an hour after finishing the series...
Posts: 867 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Big old SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER for anyone who hasn't read it yet.
I think part of it, Cashew, is the fact that Roland is defined by his quest. Everything he does, every decisions he makes, and everything about him has been because of the Dark Tower. To finally reach the end of his quest would be a kind of death, because the Roland we've known for so long would cease to exist.
That's kind of the weak answer. Another possible explanation is that Roland, wittingly or not, is an agent of the Tower. He is its protector. But he is only the protector as long as he is on the quest. We don't really know what Roland would do after finding and healing the Tower, but I think he would put down his gun and try to finally rest.
The Dark Tower cannot allow that because there are always evil agents trying to destroy it. So Roland must be sent back to his beginnings so that he can continue his duty.
And then there's a theory that, perhaps Roland can only truly fulfil his destiny and save the Tower by completing the "prophecy" of "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came". He didn't have his horn, and therefore was unable to wind it on his approach to the Tower. After being sent back, the horn is on his belt...so perhaps it's only one more time that Roland has to do it.
It's a very Buddhist idea, in a way. A life defined by suffering. The only way to escape that suffering is to remove your attachment to everything, or else you are doomed to to be reborn and live a life of suffering again.
Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Oh, don't even try to redeem the book. The Dark Tower sucked. And blew. It was bad in all kinds of ways, and ultimately amounted to a betrayal of the series. As far as I'm concerned, Wolves of the Calla was the last book, and King died before he could finish the story. Oddly, the whole "and so Roland started all over" ending is one of the few things that didn't suck.
quote: Oh, don't even try to redeem the book. The Dark Tower sucked. And blew. It was bad in all kinds of ways, and ultimately amounted to a betrayal of the series. As far as I'm concerned, Wolves of the Calla was the last book, and King died before he could finish the story. Oddly, the whole "and so Roland started all over" ending is one of the few things that didn't suck.
Tom! You have mortally wounded me! Ow ow ow ow ow! And driven me crazy! And you are crazy!! Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I can't analyze The Dark Tower. I don't analyze books very well, I just read them and enjoy them (or not). I will tell you my feelings about it though. I have never in my life read something as moving, beautiful and immersive as this series. I have never cared so much about characters in books that when it was over, I felt like all of my best friends had died. If that makes me sound like a dork I don't care. Roland is such a powerful character, he's so alone and so strong but learns to lean on his friends just a little. And Eddie and Susannah's love story fascinated and overwhelmed me. Amazing to find each other in those circumstances. How beautiful how Eddie fell in love with her while she was "Odetta" and never gave up on having her back when she was "Detta". His love was so desperate yet so sweet at the same time. Jake and Oy, there is nothing to say except never has there been a better "boy and his dog" story. The way Jake found a father in Roland was exceptionally touching. As for Oy, the honor and nobility that little furry creature showed was above and beyond most humans. He was so brave. Great to see Flagg again, although I was a little dissappointed that he was not more "bad ass". Roland and Susan's story just killed me. I cried my eyes out and finally understood what made Roland tick a bit better. I won't go through every character, suffice to say they each touched me in their own ways. I felt for every one of them-every one of them was real to me. When I think about how many of his books deal with and touch on the world of The Dark Tower the pure scope of it astounds me! The story itself was incredible too. The romance of the last Gunslinger(s) is poignant and bewitching and I couldn't put any of the books down once I started reading them. This is truly Stephen King's masterwork. I don't know what else to say. Thanks.
Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Shame the last two didn't actually add anything to Roland's strength, Eddie and Susannah's love story, Jake's relationship with Oy, Roland and Susan's love story, and Flagg's bad-assness. In fact, specifically, the last two books basically undermine all those things.
Wait. I take that back. We do get a little more about Jake's relationship with Oy. But it's not enough to redeem those books.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Shame the last two didn't actually add anything to Roland's strength, Eddie and Susannah's love story, Jake's relationship with Oy, Roland and Susan's love story, and Flagg's bad-assness.
I don't agree. I think they did add to all of that (except for Flagg, since I said he was not as bad ass as I wanted) and even if they didn't, those stories were well established. There were other stories that needed to be dealt with. (Callahan, Mia, the Breakers..etc.) So I am not real upset that the last 2 books weren't ALL about the "main" characters. I still say, Stephen's ideas freaking rule! The whole Callahan storyline, the idea of the rose, the stuff with Mia and Susannah just when you thought she was past something like that, the story of the wolves and the people in that town, Patrick's story.... I loved it all.
Ps. also, the last 2 books were, in part, meant to undermine all the relationships. The world was moving on, the story coming to a close. It had to happen. Roland had to go on alone.
Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I don't think it was too bad an ending. I liked how he first says that he didn't write an ending...and then there is one.
And yeah, the first 5 books are the better ones.
Biggest disappointments...
1. After all he's done (in 'The Stand' as well), Flagg is killed by some stupid spider baby. I wanted a big fight between him and Roland!
2. And the Crimson King, also. Some artist just drew him then erased him...again...I was expecting some kind of showdown between him and Roland.
3. Roland didn't mention poor Father Callahan when he was entering the Tower!
But let's not focus on the disappointments. Parts I liked...
1. Siege of Blue Heaven. (kinda)
2. Escaping the 'thing under the castle'
3. At least Susannah was happy with the parallel version of Jake and Eddie.
4. Come on, when you started the series did you REALLY expect it would end with the Crimson King throwing explosive Golden Snitches from the Tower's balcony?
Posts: 161 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Hmm I don't know if it's just me, but the ending made perfect sense to me. That doesn't mean that I liked it, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it fit almost perfectly.
**SPOILERS**
When the story ends and Roland is forced to restart his quest he exclaims as if he was being tortured. In a way I think it might have been about that a little bit... Roland is forced to relive his quest over and over again, always given some new glimmer of hope in order to keep him going, but in the end he will never reach his goal. Once he gets to the top floor of the tower he will once again be launched into the desert without his memories of his past life.
He needs redemption, but his inability to give up his quest after he saves the Beams and be happy with his new friends is what defines him and in the end, what damns him. He will get no redemption, ever, and he is forced to live in hell in without being able to even acknowledge his presence within it.
Ka is a wheel, and like a wheel it goes in cycles. Roland's story is all about Ka, and like Ka, it is never-ending and cyclical. After I thought about it, I really could think of no more fitting way of ending the book.
Posts: 459 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I tend to go along with Treason's feelings about the whole series. I enjoyed the last 2 books myself. Ten hours after having finished it, I think the Dark Tower is always under threat so must always be protected and so Roland, who's raison d'etre, as pointed out above, is the Tower, must constantly save it. However, it woulda been nice for him to have had alittle bit of a holiday before having to start chasing Walter again, ya know? Maybe an epiphany of acceptance rather than being shoved mercilessly back into the desert. Having said that, I tend to put myself into an author's hands and accept what he's doing with his story and characters. To do that there has to be some internal logic that I can accept, even if I have to wrestle a bit to do that. If I like the story, like the motivations and the characters, and respect the author, I am prepared to work at reasons why something happened I didn't think should have, as long as I can find some logic for it to stand on.
Posts: 867 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
With the heavy influence of 19 in the latter books, I suspect that the cycle we read was #18 in Roland's life and that he needs one more go-around.
Roland repeatedly had visions of himself at the base of the Tower blowing the Horn of Eld. So that horn has got to be significant.
When I read the revised version of The Gunslinger, I found myself wondering if it was intended to be the launch for the next repeat of the cycle. Just enough changes to be obvious to someone who knew the original version well enough (unlike the drastic changes made to The Stand) and certainly enough to point to the possibility that something had changed in this cycle prior to Roland arriving in Tull. Was his ability to hold onto the Horn enough this time?
Early in my discussions with other King fans, we debated the idea that perhaps Roland was supposed to have turned away from his quest when he held palaver with Walter in the desert. I think that if turning away from the quest was the answer, he should have done so way back in Gilead, after delivering the Wizard's Glass to his father. Or better yet, maybe he should have abandoned his mission in Mejis and settled down with Susan. He was already a true gunslinger at that point, albeit a completely green one. It wasn't like he wouldn't get his chance to face his teacher if he didn't return.
Ka is a wheel, but ka-ka stinks. And by the time Roland actually got to the Tower, the series had mostly become ka-ka.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Goody- "With the heavy influence of 19 in the latter books, I suspect that the cycle we read was #18 in Roland's life and that he needs one more go-around."
*smacks head* I didn't even think of that! That is a good theory.
Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
"With the heavy influence of 19 in the latter books, I suspect that the cycle we read was #18 in Roland's life and that he needs one more go-around"
That's was almost exactly what I figured after I finished the book. I thought that it WAS the 19th time which gave him his horn back. Or time number 1999? Scary...
I guess Roland gains all his time back because I guess his fingers would be back...right? So why wouldn't he be exactly as he was then?
Posts: 161 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Hmmm, I didn't even think about his hands being un-eaten... and I'm too braindead to come up with a good theory that incorporates the physical facts.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Ok... I've not read the Dark Tower series...but I have read Hearts in Atlantis... How do the Breakers and the Beams fit in with all this? The Crimson King who is the Red Eye (I do like the Tolkien tie in), and obviously the Diablos trying to destroy creation, was using Ted the Breaker to help him in his attempt to destroy the Beams that... what? Hold up the Dark Tower which holds the Universe together?
Give me a spoiler! Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener: Hmmm, I didn't even think about his hands being un-eaten... and I'm too braindead to come up with a good theory that incorporates the physical facts.
It's a circular journey, once Roland reaches the end he goes right back to the beginning where he chased after the man in black and had all the fingers in his right hand intact. Don't think of it as a linear story, think of it as a myth or a legend that keeps changing depending on who tells it. Each re-telling of the story holds some small new element but in the end, it's always the same story.
I don't think Roland's story ever has a happy ending guys, I think you're searching too deeply for something that isn't there. That's why King said that if you were looking for a happy ending you should stop reading after Susannah steps through the doorway.
Posts: 459 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Heheh... Ok, another question... does Ted ever show up again?? Who are the Breakers? A specific race or just powerful beings that the Red Eye finds?
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
No, Tom is right. Those last two books were pitiful. Pi-ti-ful!
And what is it with King and spiders? They definitely mark a point in the story where things are unravelling fast. Happened with 'It', which was very good until we find out the clown is a space-spider or something. Mordred was just stupid, stupid, stupid.
Ditto on the artist erasing the CK too. Lame doesn't even begin to describe it. Deus Ex Machina all over the damn place.
King puts himself into the book. I don't care how unpretentious he tries to make it, it still comes off as pretentious.
And what's with Eddie and Roland encountering the old man in the store, leaving the area, and then going back to the area. Just do what you're going to do when you're there, don't jerk us around for 50 pages going in circles.
Speaking of which, if you are going to show me that this entire seven-book-spanning-series-that took-nearly-twenty-years-to-complete is just one big circle, then at least give me an epilogue or something showing me what happens when Roland successfully saves the Tower by doing something MEANINGFUL.
Roland deserved better. The Constant Reader deserved much better after slogging through the last two books. We were right in there fighting alongside Roland, cheering him on, feeling the pain of his sacrifices, and we got this ridiculous excuse of an ending.
Worst way to end a series EVER.
Posts: 232 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Hey Foust, you should be thanking us. Otherwise you would have spent a major portion of your life reading this series only to be disappointed at the end. I only wish someone could have done the same for me!
Posts: 232 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I was just starting book 7 when I read this last week. Such a letdown... I'm having trouble having any interest in finishing the series after I spent the time to read books 1-6 this month.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Well, except I disagree with the Roland repeat thing. I thing that it's a cop out.
I think that the most disappointing thing for me is that it appears to me that King flinched in the face of the literary world/tradition. After all his words in reaction to the lukewarm (or even scornful) reaction he has received, he still took his series into a literary -- even postmodern -- place.
I'd be happy if I could simply psychogicalize things and chalk it all up to his accident. Certainly that's part of what is going on. But it doesn't excuse or explain everything.
The whole endings-are-a-cop-out and sending Roland back to the same place is a total succumbing to the literary world. True genre masters aren't afraid to attempt cathartic, even happy, even truly metahpysical endings.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: I was just starting book 7 when I read this last week. Such a letdown... I'm having trouble having any interest in finishing the series after I spent the time to read books 1-6 this month.
See what you people did! You have now ruined a wonderful wonderful story for Theaca!
Theaca, don't listen to them! There are plenty of people who loved the entire story. Keep reading!
Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2005
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