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I have a Japanese co-worker who speaks passable English, but has a very hard time using articles. She always leaves them out when they're needed, uses "the" when she should use "a", or just randomly puts them where they don't belong. When she's sending out an important communication, she asks me to proofread for her. Most of the time, I can explain why she needs "the" instead of "a/an" and vice versa, but today she stumped me.
Her son's name is Kazutaka, which means "Peace in the Universe" and his middle name, which I don't recall, means, "Peace on Heaven and Earth". She asked why she needs the article for "the Universe" but not for "Heaven and Earth". I did not know the answer for this, but I'm sure there is one.
Can any of you more literary types give me a reference or a rule that explains this?
Thanks. If you need any help with math or science, I'll do my best to help you. Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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Just a guess, but it seems to me that Heaven and Earth are proper names, while 'universe' is not.
Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
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As a side note, I have heard that the single most difficult thing for learners of English as a second language is our article system. When I first heard it, I couldn't believe it: All we have is a, an, and the. The rules for when to use a versus an are remarkably simple. What could be so hard?
The answer is in things like you described. Why do I live in a house but at home? Why do I go to the store but to (no article) work? And why do I just go home?
Really, a lot of it is just that way because it is. There may be a rule for the case you described, but then again, there many not be.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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Also, the rules vary from one dialect to another. In Britain, you go to hospital, not to the hospital. The rules are pretty arbitrary, which makes them very difficult to learn.
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Yeah. It doesn't seem like much, but there is a big difference in sending my mother home and sending my mother to the home.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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But the is supposed to be for unique things, to pick one from a crowd. With your logic, I would go to a store and go to the work. And there's only one universe. What then?
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: Yeah. It doesn't seem like much, but there is a big difference in sending my mother home and sending my mother to the home.
Or even sending her to a home.
My partner and I were arguing about whether there are two or three articles in English. I contend that a and an are variants of the same indefinite article, and that there are therefore only two articles in English. She says three.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: But the is supposed to be for unique things, to pick one from a crowd. With your logic, I would go to a store and go to the work. And there's only one universe. What then?
You never heard of the Multiverse? <grin>
(Someone needs to read more Silver Age comics)
In the case you gave, "work" is an abstract noun, rather than a concrete noun, and cannot take a definite article. "Place of work" is concrete, but "work" isn't.
And when you go to the store, you're going to a specific, concrete, store. If you were telling someone that you planned to stop by a convenience store on the way home and pick up a lotto ticket, you'd use a, since it could be any convenience store.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I don't recognize Brinestone as the final authority on how many universes there are.
I happen to think there's an alternate version of me in a parallel universe who read this thread and chose not to offer an answer, and thus was not exposed as the grammar fraud that he is.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I have a question then. To me it sounds strange when people say they are going to Prom. To me it should be going to the Prom. Which one is right?
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The Prom. Definitely. Going to prom souds like prom is the verb and that is what you are going to do, all right.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged: I have a question then. To me it sounds strange when people say they are going to Prom. To me it should be going to the Prom. Which one is right?
I think it should be the Prom, and the common usage without an article is just a laziness that's spread in common speech.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: Old people in Utah Valley refer to it as "the BYU." I have no idea why.
It was originally the Brigham Young Academy (the BYA). I suppose those old people had a hard time letting go of the article when it became a university.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote: That's fallen out of favor? I had the mumps when I was a kid. I had the german measles, too.
I, OTOH, had neither mumps nor measles. I did have rubella.
Are we going to discuss the correct way to identify freeways? The 101, the 5, the Hollywood Freeway.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Actually, in many years of tutoring ESL students in English, I found that there are times when "because" is really the best answer, especially for questions like this. English can be an awfully arbitrary language sometimes.
It was my experience, by the way, that in general speakers of European Languages, especially Eastern European languages, tended to use articles when they didn't need them, but speakers of Asian languages often didn't use articles when they did need them.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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In New Jersey, we call our highways "the" if they have a name: "The Turnpike", "The Parkway", "The Expressway", but not if they have a number "Route 80", "Route 1", "287", "I-295".
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: Are we going to discuss the correct way to identify freeways? The 101, the 5, the Hollywood Freeway.
Correct to a Californian, anyway. To each his own.
Or hers.
The last time I had this argument, I conclusively proved that a fair number of people from the Pacific NW (actually, I'm very curious about what the Hatrackers from that region say) also use "the" when referring to numbered freeways.
The person with whom I was debating made accusations of the California usage spreading like a slowly creeping plague. Resistance is useless! Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: In New Jersey, we call our highways "the" if they have a name: "The Turnpike", "The Parkway", "The Expressway", but not if they have a number "Route 80", "Route 1", "287", "I-295".
Wordist! Is not the numerical appellation a name as well?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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About placenames: it's arbitrary. The Sudan; Egypt.
But the proper name thing works, except when it doesn't. The president; President Bush. The lake; Lake Mead. It's a good first pass.
Some placenames look like they started as generic descriptions. The Beltway...well, actually, there's more than one beltway, so it's really generic. (There's a beltway in Richmond.) The turnpike. State Street.
Still, there are too many exceptions. The Prado; and a street in Atlanta called Boulevarde.
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: In New Jersey, we call our highways "the" if they have a name: "The Turnpike", "The Parkway", "The Expressway", but not if they have a number "Route 80", "Route 1", "287", "I-295".
Wordist! Is not the numerical appellation a name as well?
Allow me to clarify, if I may. "The Turnpike" is the local nickname for what is officially called "The New Jersey Turnpike". Its other appellation is "Interstate 95", or just "I-95". So when we call it by its name (or nickname) it is "The Turnpike", when we call it by its number it is just "95" or "I-95". Around these parts, the roads have both names and numbers, and some are more commonly called by their names, others by their numbers. The "the" only goes with the names. OK?
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Having just moved to San Francisco from Rhode Island, I've also noticed Californians' propensity towards the definite article. For instance, I live in the Mission, and to get to the circus school in the Sunset I bike through the Haight. Also, a little while ago I took the Bart to visit some friends in Berkeley (this one seems less standard). You might drive along the Embarcadero, but probably not the Divisidero and definitely not the Van Ness. Seems pretty arbitrary to me, but I like how it sounds.
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: Allow me to clarify, if I may. "The Turnpike" is the local nickname for what is officially called "The New Jersey Turnpike". Its other appellation is "Interstate 95", or just "I-95". So when we call it by its name (or nickname) it is "The Turnpike", when we call it by its number it is just "95" or "I-95". Around these parts, the roads have both names and numbers, and some are more commonly called by their names, others by their numbers. The "the" only goes with the names. OK?
I am familiar with the schizophrenic way in which y'all name your highways and byways. I just think it's inconsistent and a bit crazy.
The Hollywood Freeway is the 101 (except of course when it's the 134, but that's another discussion). Both "Hollywood Freeway" and "101" are names for that particular stretch of concrete (or whatever they coat it with); why should the appellation made up of words be considered any more specific or "the"-worthy that the one made up of digits?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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In Illinois we say highway names in numerical form without the "the", but if we're using those crazy name-names they use in Chicago for highways, then we say "the" with it. For example, "I-55" is also known as "the Stevenson Expressway," or in short form, just "the Stevenson." I always thought of it as the numbers being the highway's proper name, therefore not needing any sort of indicative article, whereas the name-name is indicating exactly which expressway is being referred to, therefore it gets the article. I could never figure out which name corresponded with which highway, so I always just use the numerical names.
But yeah, that whole article system is completely weird when you try to analyze it.
I've noticed too that SE Asian speakers often get pronouns mixed up - my mom's from the Philippines, and while she's lived in the US for almost 30 years and is fully fluent in English, she still says "he" instead of "she" or vice versa, especially if she's upset/excited.
Posts: 952 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Also, you can take Lake Shore Drive, but you can also take The Drive. Though now that we have an amazing radio station that's called The Drive, I wonder if that usage will decrease.
Nell, I never realized that. Is Chicago the only place that names highways? I grew up hearing traffic reports talking about the Edens, the Stevenson, the Ike, the Kennedy and so on.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote: Is Chicago the only place that names highways?
Nope, up in Canada we have several freeways with names. The Queensway, for example, runs through Ottawa.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Err, did I not mention that we name freeways out here too? I was sure I did . . . and then some of them have nicknames too, like the Grapevine.
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