OK, so this is a general term for a few different dog breeds, but I would really like to get one of the following dogs:
American Staffordshire Bull Terrier Staffordshire Bull Terrier Bull Terrier Rottweiler Any other dogs that might fit in the Pit Bull groups
If anyone has owned or known any of these dog breeds, could you please tell me about them. They seem to have a bad rap according to the media.
What have you observed in these breeds? Would you trust them to be alone with a little child? Would you take them for a bike ride with no leash? Could they handle their ears, tail, or paws being pulled on by little kids without reacting harshly? Etc.
Posts: 82 | Registered: Aug 2005
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The biggest problem with all of those breeds is usually the raising and/or training of them...but they do tend to be more aggressive than most.
My Penney was a mix, yellow Lab and Rotti, and she never hurt anyone, but she disliked kids because she had dominance issues with them. She would push them down and growl, asserting her dominance over them, and they would react my crying and trying to run away...perfectly natural, but the worst thing you could do from the dog's perspective.
She never hurt anyone, but we had to watch her pretty carefully. We had her leash trained, with the large training collar, and took her to obedience training, where the trainer said she was too smart for the combined dog class...she had issues with some of the other dogs as well, although wile on the leash training she behaved after the first few classes. She was so smart she would learn from the trainer one on one, usually in about 10 min. , then she would get bored and distracted.
If your kids are younger I would suggest another breed...with Rottis they are loyal, but they often don't know their own size. They can hurt a small child by accident fairly easily just by knocking them down when they get excited.
Also, none of these dogs are big runners, really, so I wouldn't jog with them unless it was a short jog, and I would always use a leash.
posted
Also, keep in mind you can't get homeowners insurance with most of these breeds as well...at least Rotti's, Pit Bulls, Chow, Doberman, German Shepard....check with oyur insurance company to be sure, but they usually won't cover you even if it is just a mix.
Each company has it's own list of breeds they won't allow., but these are usually on all of them. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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My only experience with Rottweilers is that two of them almost killed a little girl in my elementary school years ago.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I have worked against breed-specific legislation for many years, and can say with a lot of confidence that any of those breeds you mentioned make wonderful family pets. That said, you MUST go to a responsible, proven breeder. Do not get a Pit Bull from an animal shelter - although it's really sad how many of them do end up in shelters, you need to know the background and lineage of the dog. You are taking a big risk otherwise. Talk to the breeder - ask to see the parents of the dogs. See where they are being housed. Look at the pedigrees.
These breeds are generally not aggressive by nature, but due to their bulk and strength, if aggression did become a problem, it will be a very serious one. These dogs can inflict quite a lot of damage when they want to. You really need to do your research before taking one home.
quote:What have you observed in these breeds? Would you trust them to be alone with a little child? Would you take them for a bike ride with no leash? Could they handle their ears, tail, or paws being pulled on by little kids without reacting harshly? Etc.
Personally, I would not trust any dog of any breed alone with a small child. Children like to play with dogs but often do not know the proper limits - you need to be there to supervise. It's only natural for a dog to become irritated when having their ears pulled or feet stepped on - and that's how accidents happen. My mother has a very sweet and gentle greyhound - who snaps at small children when they bother him too much.
Again, I would not take any dog of any breed for a walk off-leash in an area where there are other people present. A lot of people are really scared of dogs, and the courteous (and safe) thing to do is to keep your dog leashed. Even the best-trained dogs can wander off. People have an especially bad reaction to seeing a dog like a Pit Bull or a Rottie running loose. Don't add to the already-bad reputation of the breeds by giving people even more to say against them.
All that said, I think you're making a great decision if you do choose to get one of these dogs. You just have to be a little more careful than when purchasing, say, a Lab or Cocker Spaniel. If you do your research and find a great breeder, you won't regret it. Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I have never really personally been around many pit bulls, except in volunteer capasities. For the past year or so I have been volunteering every week with a low cost spay neuter clinic that serves induviduals and shelters in the central Indiana area. My job is to take the dogs from the cages they arive in from shelters to be weighed and examined by a tech, then to a sterilized cage where they are held until it is their turn for surgery, sometimes I get the animals out of the cage for surgery, but less likely the large dogs because they have had a pre op shot that makes them a bit groggy and often the male tech carries them. I also work in the recovery room, removing trachial tubes, and monitoring stats until the dog is able to lift his head fully after surgery.
At the clinic we have seen most breeds of dogs, at many ages of life (starting at 8 weeks, and as old as 10 years).
The pit bulls, rotties, and other "breed discriminated" breeds tend to be the sweetest, most accepting dogs. Both of the Technicians at the clinic have pit bulls or crosses and won't put up with any type of discrimination, or "special treatment."
Would I trust them alone with a little child, no but I wouldn't trust my absolutely bomb proof sheltie alone with a child, I usually wouldn't trust a child alone.
I also don't feel comfortable with dogs running with bikes in most areas, it worries me, in public places you never know when you'll incounter another dog, a car, a person, or some scary atv (bad past experience, don't ask I was 6 )
Most dogs, inlcuding the breeds mentioned, would be fine with being handled like that by children, if it was not a new scary experience, like if it had been done since day one of puppyhood.
So basically this is one case, if these are the breeds you're looking at, I would not go to a rescue, I would look for a reputable breeder, see the parents, interact with the puppy, and start some form of training from when you get them. But usually I support rescue, there are just people who have made mistakes with the dogs past experiences.
As my mom says on this issue:
When idiots (people) breed idiots (dogs) to idiots (dogs), then sell them to idiots (people) you get idiots, and a media mess.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Until very recently, we had a wonderful purebred Rottweiler named Marty. She was a great dog, and while we did not trust her with other children, she was fine with ours.
My husband got her when she was a puppy, and had her out with the cows for her first several years. (Yes, cows. He had three at the time, and they were Marty's playmates. The cows seemed to like her too. It was strange to watch.) Even so, she was well socialized and seemed fine with kids until she was about 6 or so, when my husband started having Bible studies at his house (this was before we started going out). Some of the kids of parents who came to the study, we think teased Marty and didn't treat her well. So she got skittish around kids. When my husband and I got married, I brought my 7 year old son (now 12) with me. Marty's training for getting used to my son was for my husband to get the two to wrestle and play under supervision, and my son took over feeding her. They became fast friends. Then when we had my daughter (now 3) and we introduced her to Marty very early. Rainbow was taught how to treat dogs kindly, but even so she's a little kid so she pulled ears and patted kind of hard. Marty was very, very gentle with her.
When we got our Shihtzu 4 years ago, Marty had lots of provocation to chomp our tiny new puppy in half (Lucky was cute as a puppy, but seriously obnoxious...she liked to jump up into Marty's face over and over and over again.) but never did anything worse than batting the little dog down a bit wih her paw.
The worst I ever saw Marty do was with one of the neighborhood kids who approached her from behind and patted her on the back when she wasn't expecting it. She whipped around and nipped his hand, not breaking the skin but scaring the tar out of him.
Marty is naturally very submissive, especially to people. And she's my only experience with that breed. My husband also had a little bull terrier, Honeybear before Marty, and said she was one of the best dogs he'd ever had. Honeybear was killed by a car. We gave Marty to my mother in law a month ago as a companion to replace her black lab who died last spring. She's very happy and is around older kids (teen girls, mostly) all the time without a problem.
The only thing about Rotties is that they lean, and they step on your feet. Not fun if you're wearing flip flops.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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If I may ask, why are you interested in those dogs in particular?
I agree with what everyone has said about the fact that Pits and other "vicious" breeds can make excellent family companions. They can be very loyal and gentle with humans.
I'd never be comfortable leaving any kind of dog alone with a very small child. However, you may want to add Boxers to your list, as they're very similar physically, aren't (yet) on the insurance lists, and are known for being wonderful with kids.
But my dog is a Boxer, so I'm biased. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Oh zeugma, i've been meaning to tell you about the boxer (mix) puppy my mom's friend fostered. She came into the shelter at 8 weeks, weighing 7 pounds, her temperature was in the low to mid 90s, and the other puppy with her (didn't appear to be a litter mate) died that night. This friend got her on the 5th day, when she was up to 9 pounds, and getting fed every two hours. In the two and a half weeks she had her, Cookie went from barely moving, and sluggish, to the cutest and most exciting thing ever. If I wanted a big(ish) dog, or a dog at all right now, my family would have adopted her, but that wasnt to be, so she went to a very good home. I just fell in love, like I never ever have with a short haired dog.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Zeugma, In answer to you question and much much more:
I'm interested in these dogs for a few reasons.
First and foremost, I have always been intrigued by these dogs, simply because of their sheer power and looks.
Second, I became interested in them because of the undeserved “Bad Rap” the news had given to them. After reading about their real mannerisms and personalities, I found that these dogs have a lot going for them in terms of being good family pets. (I find it interesting that the Stafford Terrier is referred to as the “Nanny Dog” in the U.K.)
Third, I don’t want to be like everyone else and get the golden retriever or Labrador type dogs.
Fourth, I’ve seen these dogs in action and think they are awesome! Let’s see, I was chased by a pit-bull about everyday on my bike growing up, never bit me, but did give me a thrill. Maybe that is why I like them, I associate this thrill with these dogs. When I lived in Ohio, I think that the unofficial state dog was the Rottweiler, so I saw plenty of them and again, thought they were just excellent pets. I was also confronted many times by them thinking I was about to die, but not getting attacked.
Last, Boxers are just to playful for me. OK, so I’ve only known 2 boxers, I like their muscular build, they’re smart, but they just seem a little to goofy and silly for me. Maybe that was just the case for the two that I’ve known, so let me know if that is the case.
What is comes down to is I wish there was a dog that was built like a Pit or Boxer, (Rottweilers are to large) didn’t bark except when necessary, has the disposition of a Golden Retriever, is as intelligent as a Border Collie and as obedient as a German Shepherd. Does any dog fit that description?
One more question, can you get homeowner’s insurance if you have a mixed bred? Say a Boxer/Pit mix?
Posts: 82 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Just remember that the smarter a dog is, the more you will have to work on the obedience part. Smart dogs need something constructive to apply their intelligence to, and if they don't have it they will apply their intelligence to what they want. And you will almost certainly not be happy with the results.
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Oh yeah, totally, Boxers are extremely playful. And yeah, it can be annoying, we're still working on keeping ours from jumping on people and trying to get them to play. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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My aunt currently has two American Staffordshire Bull Terrier, but I've only been around the older one, Tiny.
He's the greatest dog in the world. From the moment he gets up to the time he flops over, all he ever wants to do is playplayplay. Tug-of-war, fetch, run around and around - you name and he's game. He really likes chasing the ducks in the pond (my aunt has a farm), but I don't think he'd know what to do with one once he caught one - not that he ever does (the ducks swim laps around him).
He's never hurt anyone, although he does bark at strangers who he hasn't been "introduced" to. He's smart too - "introducing" someone to him simply means greeting them in a friendly manner within his eyesight/hearing. I don't doubt that he would attack someone who he saw as a threat to those he's been introduced to, though.
My aunt says it all depends on the breeder - some stupid people breed for vicious/more aggressive animals, and some breed for friendly, playful behavior.
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I'm not totally sure on this, but I believe the Pit Bull Terrier is a separate breed altogether, and not a breed group with the breeds you listed falling under it. At least, I've never seen it described as such. AFAIK, those breeds would simply fall under the Bull Terrier group. Not sure about the Rottweilers, though; they might not be terriers. I think they might be in the mastiff group.
Doggie semantics aside , the thing to realize about bull terriers, especially pit bulls, is that they were originally bred as fighting dogs - as in, bred to fight other dogs. A large part of a dog's temperament is in its genetics. Being dog-aggressive is in their blood; being people-aggressive is not. Of course, there are exceptions to both those rules, but generally speaking, pit bulls are wonderful people dogs who will probably need some extra guidance when it comes to being around their own kind.
Now these dogs are bred for strength and things like pulling contests, rather than fighting, so some of the dog-aggressiveness has probably been bred out of them. A similar thing has happened with dobermans - their savage reputation is based on their ancestors' temperaments, but now a lot of the "sharpness" has been bred out, so the breed is a lot more mellow. Generally speaking, of course.
My family used to have a pit bull and a doberman, both when I was really little. The doberman was part of the family before I was born, and she sort of adopted me as her own when I was a baby (if my mother's tales are to be believed ). We got the pit bull as a puppy when I was five. Both of them were incredibly sweet and utterly loyal dogs.
Posts: 952 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Jhai's aunt is right, though - some pit bull breeders might be trying to tap into the "guard dog" market. I would not recommend getting a pet dog from a breeder like that. Personally, I think those breeders are more than a bit irresponsible as far as what they're doing to the breed as a whole.
Posts: 952 | Registered: Jun 2005
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The American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier are very similar but they are not the same breed of dog. When people first began breeding pit bulls the AmStaff was the line of dogs bred to be pretty for show purposes. APBTs were bred for "working". The AKC currently does not recognize the American Pit Bull Terrier, but the UKC does.
I don't know what area you are in, Presences, but here is a very reputable APBT breeder in the Texas area. (Someday I will save up enough cash to own one of these dogs. )
quote:The American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier are very similar but they are not the same breed of dog.
Actually, this is somewhat untrue. Although certain strains of both breeds have come to show differences (due to selective breeding under one registration), many dogs are dual-registered with both the AKC and the UKC, under the breed names American Staffordshire Terrier and American Pit Bull Terrier, respectively. There are subtle differences, such as the UKC allowing red-nosed dogs and the AKC not, but other than that the breeds are structurally the same. The AKC will argue that the breeds are similar, but not the same, because they don't wish to be associated with the name "Pit Bull", and the UKC will argue that their breed is closer to the "original" Pit Bull. Aside from little differences like the one concerning nose color, the breeds are largely the same.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I wouldn't say that Pit Bulls have undeserved reputations. We have a Pit Bull who lives next door to us who has charged me when I have been in my own backyard. The dog has attacked 2 other dogs and gone after a cat in the neighborhood. My wife and I took our 6 month old baby out for a walk a few weeks ago and another of our neighbors came walking up the street with her 1 year old and her 5 year old. The 5 year old had their dog on the leash and the pit bull ran across my property, into my front yard and attacked the other dog. The 5 year old was pulled down and the mother was scratched up from the dog jumping on her. The dog warden was called in and the dog was put into quarantine, the owners were given a ticket to the tune of $500 and were required to keep the dog on a leash or on a run at all time outside of the house.
Well some people don't learn as the owner of the dog walked the Pit Bull and her child to the bus stop last week and the dog lunged after a couple of kids. It was reported again, but the owners still don't see a problem. They think the people in the neighborhood are jerks for calling the dog warden. And the next morning, the ownere walked the dog back down to the bus stop again!
My wife had a dog that was half lab half pit bull and while she loved the dog, she has said she would never own another one again.
Posts: 117 | Registered: May 2005
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Would the problem possibly be the owners, and not the dog? Throw me a freakin' bone here! (Sorry, couldn't resist)
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I don't think the reputation is undeserved. Sure there are nice pit bull type dogs with good breeding and training. But the breed was developed for dog fighting, and there are still dogfighting rings out there. There are also foolish people who think they want a guard dog (meaning an aggressive dog), and breeders who cater to them. If you see some random pit bull, there's no way you can tell by looking at it what it's breeding or training is.
Plus, imagine this scenario. Someone buys a really aggressive dog as a guard. They don't neuter him, because they don't want him to lose any aggression. This dog gets out and impregnates all of the local dogs that are in heat before being recaptured. The resulting puppies are then taken to a local shelter, to be adopted by some unsuspecting person.
The idea that pit bulls are dangerous dogs is as justified as the idea that border collies herd things. It's what they were bred to do. You can easily find non-herding border collies by finding a breeder who selects for that trait. Since dogfighting is illegal and dangerous, it is even more important to get any pit bull type dog from a reputable breeder that does not select for aggression.
I know this is basically what others have said, but I think it's important to point out that just because some lines of a breed are good, safe dogs, it doesn't mean the breed as a whole is. Be careful.
It is a combination of both. The owners are irresponsible as well as confrontational but it is not as if they are ordering the dog to attack. Even when on a leash, it goes after people.
Posts: 117 | Registered: May 2005
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Agreed. And the ironic piece of my story is that my neighbors found this pit bull abandonded in a parking lot and brought it home when they had a 6 year old girl in the house. The dog has bite marks and scars all over its head and I wouldn't be surprised if this dog was fought.
Posts: 117 | Registered: May 2005
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There have been bad situations, yes, but a lot of it does have to do with owners, and because of the reputation, there are shelters that have an absolute no questions asked, euthanize policy on a list of discriminated breeds, that includes all of the pit like dogs. These shelterss are often ones considered to be no kill shelters for all other breeds.
Dr Evil, the dog you're discribing, and the situation that it was found sounds very similar to one our clinic's tech discribed, the only pittie she's ever had any probelm with, a family with a 2 year old found it in a park iwht a metal collar and gashes on its neck, they took it in to be neutered (this was not at our clinic but at her previous job in i believe TN), the dog was being weighed, jumped on the tech, lunged at her ear, and actually made ear to tooth contact. She called the owners and told them that with a child in the house, the dog would have to be euthanized, state law.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I believe that a domesticated breed of dog is almost entirely a product of its environment and upbringing. Much, much moreso than human beings, because they lack the capability to imagine the future as fundamentally different from the present, create a set of goals to change things and work towards them.
Dogs do what makes their bellies full and their tails wag. If, say, they get praise-verbal and culinary-in their puppyhood and beyond for being very tough and aggressive, then I think it's natural that such behavior would extend beyond their puppyhood and their homes and yards, out into the world beyond.
THIS WILL TELL YOU THE TRUTH ABOUT PITBULLS! I own a big, beautiful one year old pitbull and he is absolutely wonderful. He is excellent with our famalies new born baby, 2 year old and four year old- as well as my Bassett Hound. It's no exageration to say he is the best family dog weve ever owned, and DENVER LAW IS HORRIBLE!
Posts: 44 | Registered: Jan 2005
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I watched that video, it was painful to see....
Then they ruined it by lying about statistics.
I surance companies don't refuse coverage for nothing, lowering their revinues. Wjile I still tend to blame the ownrers as much, if not more than, as the dogs, statistically, over a LOT longer than 7 years (and not unmentioned studies funded by dog lovers) they account for a lot more of those bites....adn the severity of those bites FAR exceeds the other breeds, by more than 2 to 1.
Deaths from them are more common as well.
Stastically, they are more dangerous, a fact that has to do with what they are bred for, and the uses they have been put to.
I usually like those dogs IRL, but it all depends on how they were raised....if anyone even suggests that they have the dog for "protection" I stay away.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I have linked to that video before...I would include a warning about the graphic content. Watching it makes me cry...people need to be warned before clicking on it.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Then I would like to know, despite saying that pitbull bites are considered more dangerous, WHAT ARE the true statistics and where did you find them?
You must remember also, that many of those "dangerous" pitbulls are fed gunpowder by their cruel, worthless owners in order to make them go crazy and be mean in dog fights.
It's an utter shame that this breed of dog has such a wonderfully innate ability to be loving, yet they are feared.
Posts: 44 | Registered: Jan 2005
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I think it is a combination of instinct, breeding, and environment (training).
First, I think that breeds of dogs have traits and habits that are bred into them such as CrowsWife explained earlier. There is a reason why Pointers point and Labs retrieve, etc.
Second, owners still need to train their dogs. Dogs still need to be taught and owners need to be responsible for this.
In the case of the pit bull living next door, I think it is safe to say that the innate characteristics of this dog are showing more and more and that these people are irresponsible dog owners. The father of that family has stated that he thinks this is a great family dog, despite the fact that it has lunged after people and attacked multiple dogs. Nice guy, but dumb as a box of rocks.
Posts: 117 | Registered: May 2005
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She was so smart she would learn from the trainer one on one, usually in about 10 min. , then she would get bored and distracted. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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, the thing to realize about bull terriers, especially pit bulls, is that they were originally bred as fighting dogs - as in, bred to fight other dogs. A large part of a dog's temperament is in its genetics. Being dog-aggressive is in their blood; being people-aggressive is not. Of course, there are exceptions to both those rules, but generally speaking, pit bulls are wonderful people dogs who will probably need some extra guidance when it comes to being around their own kind.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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