quote:Tonight I ask you to pass legislation to prohibit the most egregious abuses of medical research -- human cloning in all its forms -- creating or implanting embryos for experiments, creating human-animal hybrids and buying, selling, or patenting human embryos.
-- President Bush, 2006
It's about time someone addressed the very real and very serious threat of human-animal hybrids.
Today I was riding the bus and this guy gets on. And he's one of those human-animal hybrids, you know? He's half giraffe, half-human. Anyway, because his neck was so long, he had to duck real low to get through the door. He seemed to have very little control of where his head went; it was just like, this big *thing* you know? This big battering ram wavering back and forth. And he smacks the side of his face into this old lady. He's embarrassed. She's embarassed. It was a whole thing.
I looked around, and me and the other passengers on th bus, we were all looking at each other. And you could tell that everyone was thinking the same thing, but nobody wanted to say it: We have to get rid of these human-animal hybrids. They shouldn't exist. It's not *natural*.
They're just kind of -- the fact that they're even here, on this planet. It's wrong. It's mad science, is what it is. Can't you just feel God's anger? Don't you just bristle when you see one of them?
I feel bad for them, because they didn't choose to be this way... But clearly they're a danger to our society and to our way of life. And I hate to be the one to say it, but okay, I will be. I'll take a stand.
They need to be made to disappear.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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My sister had a baby last year, and when I went to the hospital, they had one of those human-animal hybrids right there in the nursery with the other babies.
He was like, a snake baby. And right before our eyes, this baby unhinged his jaws and began trying to eat one of the other babies, a twin, looked like. He got the legs about halfway into his throat before the nurse came in and pulled the real human kid away.
Thank God that snake baby didn't have it's -- sorry, I mean his -- teeth in.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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I mean... Sometimes you don't know who you can trust. But I feel good about you. I feel like I can speak the truth, here.
Because -- and you know this. And I know this. Because even those PC people out there, who say that everyone has a right to live? That everyone has a right to pursue his or her own happiness, regardless of whether or not they were born a real human, or a human-animal hybrid? Those PC people know, in their deepest hearts, just like we do, that these things, really, when you get right down to it, these things really have no souls.
Somebody has to say it.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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Here's a question. Bush is against patenting embryos; is he against patenting DNA? Because the LATTER threat is actually a lot more serious.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I seriously doubt that W. understands what DNA is. Or if he believes in it. But if it is "science stuff", he is probably against it.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Ok, so everyone's treating this like a big joke, but there are serious philosophical issues here.
With all the genetic research going on right now, the possibility of human-animal hybrids is growing day by day. It raises the questions "What is a human" and "How human do you have to be before you still get human rights?"
In the end we're all just genes. a chimp has 90-something percent of the genes that a human has. You can't just do a simple genetic test and say "This thing is 98% Human and therefor IS human and gets rights." This leads us down the road to Sentience Tests. "I'm sorry, you're not smart enough to count as human. Would you prefer to be broiled, baked or deep fried cuz you sure look tastey, Heiffer McCow"
All this being said, unlike the President (and much of hatrack) I'm pro-cloning and pro-genetic engineering. If someone could give me a bit of sea-turtle DNA and I could live an extra 50 years, that'd be great! (I'll just bury my eggs in the sand over here...)
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People do realize that he's talking about human/animal (largely human/mouse) chimeric cells, right? Like, they're laughing because it sounds funny, but the know it's research that's been going on for a few years now, right?
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Bob: I assumed it was something like that. I wasn't aware that it was going on on much of a scale yet.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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ou're right, Pix. There are some concerns behind the president's words. However, I think that an outright ban on research into this topic is unwise. Researchers working with animal DNA should be extraordinarily careful, because the risk of unforseen latent side affects to incorporation of any foreign DNA, such as susceptibility to a new catastrophic disease. However, it may become possible to do some great things with a few genes not normally found in humans. Maybe a cure for cancer, maybe a cure for AIDS, maybe a lot of things.
Don't stand against scientific research, but monitor it closely and ensure that it is conducted as safely as possible and thoroughly tested.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: Jan 2001
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I agree Pix, well, depending on the specifics that is. We are removed (majoritativly) from nature's mechanism for cleaning and improving the gene pool, i.e. natural selection. A human being with a genetic trait that would kill them in the wild can and does survive and breed in this day and age. I am not making a judgement call, simply stating fact.
I think we need to police our own gene pool, i.e. selection of the genes we pass on. From each parent only half of the genes are passed to the offspring, which half is random. So what I suggest is that we select which of the two gene pairs we pass on and simply pick which parts of us we pass on.
Not altering genes, simply selecting them.
What Pix is talking about human rights and sentience tests is utterly fascinating and should be discussed at length.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I cant believe this thread. Some of us here are human-animal hybrids and I believe that the fact that I was spliced with penguin DNA does not make me less of a person. It just makes me a better swimmer. So think of us when you say things like this. Posts: 832 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Wolf: Yes, we have a high genetic load. I should have died at 12 from asthma, for example. Medical science is WONDERFUL!!!! but it comes with a price.
What you suggest, about policing our gene pool, is the subject of the movie Gattaca. If you're interested in this stuff, it's worth watching.
It's hard for me to discuss human rights and sentience tests becuase I haven't given it enough thought yet. I really extremely dislike either option... (ie: tests, or giving human rights to anything with a gene that can be traced back to a human) I mean, there's a point where you can say "Yes, that is a person and deserves human rights." and there's a point where you can say the opposite... but what about the middle?
Tante: He's not suggesting Eugenics (at least as I understand them) He's not sterilizing the dim and poor. He's suggesting that when two people want a child they go to a lab and select which genes to pass on. (which of course, is not possible.. yet.)
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Well, really, we already do this. To wit, an embryo is considered human (by the law) at 6 months; not human at three weeks; and the midpoint has an arbitrary dividing line drawn through it. Why should genetics be any different?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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KoM: Ok, so how would you do that? a test based on percentage of DNA? What if you had something that fell below that threshold but was as intellegent as a regular human? or looked human but was too low of a percentage?
It's not an easy question. And the way we answer it could lead to a race of demihuman genetically engineered slaves. or a huge social underclass of "technically humans" who are either too ugly or too stupid (or both) to function in society.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Pix, I hear ya. I wasn't trying to disagree really, just using your words as a jumping off point. I'm just as nervous as you about a concept like sentience tests. I'd say in the case of doubt, err on the side of granting human rights. I know I'd hate to become a Natoburger for failing a test.
quote:0range7Penguin: I cant believe this thread. Some of us here are human-animal hybrids and I believe that the fact that I was spliced with penguin DNA does not make me less of a person. It just makes me a better swimmer. So think of us when you say things like this.
That's all well and good, but we draw the line at oranges. BEWARE THE FRUIT-HUMAN HYBRIDS!
KoM: Hmm, I wish we had a world without abortion. I'm in favor of a woman's right to choose, but I wish there were a different method. Like a little BABY-NOBABY switch on the back of her neck (j/k). Honestly, I think genetic research could lead to a breakthrough in this area, some sort of genetic switch that could be triggered either way maybe... Hopefully, in the future, abortion will be a thing of the past. I think that that issue aside, Americans could come together and agree on a lot more things.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:What you suggest, about policing our gene pool, is the subject of the movie Gattaca. If you're interested in this stuff, it's worth watching.
Gattaca came to my mind as well. The thing is, if we gain the ability to police our genes more accurately, then that forces everyone to do the same, or else they get left behind. Unless it becomes very very cheap, poor families and poor nations will be unable to keep up with the customized offspring of the more affluent families and nations. Ultimately, this is what is happening now, just at a much slower rate. But it's not a reason to stop the research. Rather, it makes it that much more important to address the widening gap in societies and social classes now before it gets out of control.
Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005
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There is a fear which I've seen pop up again and again in SciFi (Gattaca, as mentioned), with good reason. If we do start to alter genes, then what will happen to those who are not altered? Will gene alteration (which is assumed to be a large benefit to those who receive it) be only for the rich? Is this the ultimate split between the rulers and the ruled? Will altering the genes create a new, superior species which is truly not human?
For my part, I think it could go down either way. Like a gun, or money, or a car or any other powerful thing, gene alteration can be used for good or ill all depending on -how- it is used.
Oh, and Tante, Pix is right, I'm not suggesting that we breed human beings like cattle or horses, or sterilize those with negative traits.
quote:eu·gen·ics "eugenics"
The study of hereditary improvement of the human race by controlled selective breeding.
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"only when the barriers are erased can free thought truely exist for the first time"- (Deus Ex: Invisible War) J.C. Denton
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Every time I see this thread I picture Mulder running down a street screaming "Scully! They are making Human Animal Hybrids and I have indesputable proof!"
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Advent 115: Lets try to leave that subject to other threads, okay Nato.
Umm... Yes, sir, Member number 8914.
I wasn't trying to derail everything, and as you can see, it did not. This thread is about genetic research, as was my post. I would gladly discuss the subject another time, although I don't think there is that much to be said about it... yet.
quote:Every time I see this thread I picture Mulder running down a street screaming "Scully! They are making Human Animal Hybrids and I have indesputable proof!"
T_, unfortunately, that's always before some unforseen figure pops up and destroys the evidence...
Posts: 1592 | Registered: Jan 2001
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Lets hope not, I want to see little have wolf kids running down the street.
And I wasn't disaproving, I just didn't want the direction of the thread to move. Its hapened before, usually because I misunderstood something. Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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They're a rather extreme sub-culture of what used to be part of the cartoon animation and "funny animal" fandom.
I shan't give further detail, but doing a search on Google should give you more information than you ever wanted to know.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Hahahahahaha! That's what I thought of, too, when I saw this thread.
I think we've got a new follow-up to the old-fashioned "sex-change" operation, for those who were tragically born without their intrinsic half-animal physiology.
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Thats not funny, especially after the horrors that I just witnessed.
I may apreciate a kind of irony if we fianlly started to mess with Gods most complex creation (supposedly us), but.... furries is just WRONG.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Though I wouldn't mind having the speed of a wolf and the strength of a bear...... As long as there weren't any big side effects or visable changes on my flesh.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:And I wasn't disapproving, I just didn't want the direction of the thread to move. It's happened before, usually because I misunderstood something.
Threads derail, devolve, change, and die all on their own. It's no one's fault, and you can't control it. And a lot of people think it's obnoxious to try. Threads don't belong to people, and if someone brings up a side issue that's more interesting than the main issue then the it becomes the main issue. Best get used to it.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nato: Pix, I hear ya. I wasn't trying to disagree really, just using your words as a jumping off point. I'm just as nervous as you about a concept like sentience tests. I'd say in the case of doubt, err on the side of granting human rights. I know I'd hate to become a Natoburger for failing a test.
quote:0range7Penguin: I cant believe this thread. Some of us here are human-animal hybrids and I believe that the fact that I was spliced with penguin DNA does not make me less of a person. It just makes me a better swimmer. So think of us when you say things like this.
That's all well and good, but we draw the line at oranges. BEWARE THE FRUIT-HUMAN HYBRIDS!
Hey, don't mock. Some of my best friends are vegetables. At least part of the time.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by A Rat Named Dog: Hahahahahaha! That's what I thought of, too, when I saw this thread.
I think we've got a new follow-up to the old-fashioned "sex-change" operation, for those who were tragically born without their intrinsic half-animal physiology.
I used to work with someone who I strongly suspected was a rutabaga trapped in a human body.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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starLisa, did we work with the same person once?
I have some furrie friends. Actually, they're pretty cool and often dress up in their costumes to visit hospitals, etc. The most annoying thing about them is the propensity to use "fur" when they should use "for". Drives. me. batty.
(I suspect my duaghter will grow up to be a furry, so better embrace them now.)
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Personally, I think W has been watching Surface and he's a-scared of the human/animal hybrids they've created.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I know some furries personally. Unfortunately, they're not anywhere near like what your friends seem to be, romany.
The ones I know like to pretend they're "cubs" (underage cartoon animals) and look at art of such "cubs" being...well, molested.
So I'd rather not embrace them as a whole, though you're right. Some are benign. And some are creepy as heck.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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I wasn't trying to disagree really, just using your words as a jumping off point. I'm just as nervous as you about a concept like sentience tests. I'd say in the case of doubt, err on the side of granting human rights. I know I'd hate to become a Natoburger for failing a test. ![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
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