posted
Whilst trying to come up with a plot for a story where an Australian becomes Emperor (of Australia, not the world), and getting nowhere, I realised my problem. One simply can't make a character with the ambitious to be something powerful, for any reason, and still have them portrayed as a good guy if they get what they want. For a while I thought the problem was that, being young, male and Australian, the main character might be too much like me, and so I wouldn't want to reveal to much about myself from it. But I've gotten past that.
The character's nothing like me anymore really. But that's not good enough, cause now he's just an empty shell with no motivation in particular and is somehow meant to become Emperor of Australia well before the end of the story. I have no problem with taking an ordinary, unambitious individual and giving them a great destiny in Space Opera's, but I guess this is just future fantasy at the moment, so it's not my thing. But I really want to write this, despite not having a single plot, character, challenge or setting I'm interested in in this story world yet.
Any advice? And of course, any noble deeds y'all could think of would be great too, not that I'm particularly likely to use them , but just to get the juices flowing. And if I do use it, I'll be sure to give you acknowledgement for it if it ever gets published. Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I think you should concentrate on showing why your character wants power. No-one is ambitious in a vacuum. Is he compensating for some failing in his character or background? Is he rebelling against an opressive family? If you can, point to a particular defining moment in his personal history where he either realised that he wanted power and success or where its absence made such an impact that the reader understands why he'd want to improve his circumstances.
It's unlikely to make a very engaging novel if the protagonist simply decides to become emperor and then sets out to find the best way of accomplishing this. Start out with a good motivation for him to improve his circumstances, and then it can build naturally when he realises that to retain the power he has gained against the opposition of his enemies (you have some good enemies, right?) he must continue to expand it until eventually he is in control of the entire uni... I mean Australia, and he start calling himself emperor.
Then he can realise the futility of it all and kill himself. Or something.
Posts: 896 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Maybe this just isn't the story you should be writing at the moment?
I know exactly how you feel, as I spent about six months last year, plotting and planning a novel. After I had written sixty thousand words, none of which seemed to be leading anywhere, I realised that I just wasn't ready to write that particular story. It needed time.
So I left it alone for another six months, worked on other things, and came back to it with fresh eyes - and all of a sudden, I could see where it needed to go... and my new ideas are completely different and much stronger. Plus, many of the ideas which didn't work in the first version have been perfect for cannibalising into other stories.
You've fallen in love with a single idea, but without the rest of the story to back it up, you'll get nowhere. Either sit down and work it through, or take some more time and let your subconscious have at it for a while.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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That's just the kind of story I was thinking of (i.e. the beginning, middle and end you laid out). But I didn't think ambition to be Emperor would be acceptable to the readers, even if he did have a good reason. I've never seen it done in fiction (with the power hungry one being a good guy) and I can't reason to myself how someone power hungry could get the sympathy of the readers.
Well, actually, there was Beauty from Hart's Hope, but she wasn't the protagonist from the start, was she?
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:You've fallen in love with a single idea, but without the rest of the story to back it up, you'll get nowhere.
The other idea I wanted to mix with it was him being homosexual but marrying a woman, having children with her, etc. and later regretting it. The consequences of that situation I've done a lot more thinking about but homosexuality just isn't my subject. It's not something I think I could write about at the moment.
I have lesbian friends, but none are gay, and it's not like I'm going to go out and find gay friends just to help me for this novel. Likewise, I have no black friends so I don't feel qualified to write about a black character. But not having a black or gay character in my stories has never stopped me before.
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I don't see why you can't make him complex and interesting, instead of lovable to the reader. How about making his power hungryness his fatal flaw - he's charasmatic, exciting, brilliant, resourceful, and everything that anyone would want in a leader... except that under all that, all he really cares about is power. Perhaps he really believes that he wants to make the world better, and it is only at the end that he comes to understand himself well enough to see that he did it all for his own power... I'm a sucker for hubris.
I don't know. Just don't think he needs to be Mr. perfect-nice-guy for people to care about him.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Okay, let me put it this way. I've had black friends before. I've known gay guys before. But the only thing I know about either is from fiction, so I don't see that as much worth anything.
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
What was it about making him homosexual that appealed to you? I mean, if you feel that you know so little about homosexuality in general? Why is it so important to you? Can't you take things from your own experiences and work them through enough for there to be some emotional truth there?
You've never been emperor of Australia before, either. I don't see why you can't write about something you personally have not experienced, as long as you can understand how a person would feel in such a situation. I've never been a man, but that doesn't mean that I can't try to write from a male viewpoint.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
That's a good point. I'm taking your "all he really cares about is power" remark and using it with the addition of a lot of private pride. I'm reading Mr. Darcy's Letter at present (yet again) for inspiration. When I'm done I shall be writing the start of my story (it's slowly but surely coming together now ), and I shall post the first 13 lines in here, as well as the Writer's Workshop, if no-one minds. I would just post it in the Writer's Forum, but the advice started here so I want to keep it here.
One thing that took my interest in homosexuality (namely the challenges thereof) was discovering that only in the 50s admittance of homosexuality in public would have had you murdered, and yet today they have their rights, their pride, and yet they're still pushing for something... but what?
But my original interest in homosexuality was in entering the LDS religion and finding out the Churches views on it. Of course, the LDS church looks on homosexuality the same way they used to in the prior to the 60s, minus the violence, and that makes me wonder what history would've been like had everyone handled homosexuality like that right from the start.
[ February 23, 2006, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: cheiros do ender ]
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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One thing that took my interest in homosexuality (namely the challenges thereof) was discovering that only in the 50s admittance of homosexuality in public would have had you murdered, and yet today they have their rights, their pride, and yet they're still pushing for something... but what?
Um, being homosexual today can still get you killed or harassed, it can cause you to lose your job or never get one. It can mean your kid will be mocked or beaten up at school. If this is really what you think life as a homosexual is like today, then I think you're right, you need to learn more about homosexuality before you write about it.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
A would-be emporer could be sympathetic if he had a sympathetic reason for it. Preventing Australia from falling to the hands of the evil Melbourni! Restoring wealth and power to the ancient city of Darwin! Or something.
Or maybe he wants to be emporer because Daddy said so, and he's coming to see what a waste ambition is.
posted
There is a section in the Republic where Plato says that a captain concerns himself with the winds and seas, not how to get to the helm.
It seems that your book concerns a man who only cares about getting to the helm. It may be that seeking dominion over other is simply morally unattractive. The idea that one would seek mastery of other people for no other reason than to be the master of other people flies in the face of my democratic intuitions.
I'm going to yank a section of Blayne Bradley's Kant summary from another thread.
quote: it is not enough that by coincidence the action matches with moral law but must be intended to follow moral law.
The problem, I believe, with your character is that obtaining the position of emperor is usually considered as attending effect of someone who is primarily looking out for the interests of the state through some sort of duty or moral law.
*thinks* I think that's why a Steve Jobs retrospective will always be more compelling than a Bill Gates retrospective. Gates may have been more aggressive, ambitious, and successful, but Jobs will be more interesting because his motives, as I understand them, weren't singularly to make a profit.
________
If you are going to push the homosexuality angle for it, I say that you make it have something to do with transferance. Since the laws and mores of the land were hostile to him having a family, he concieved of the nation as his family. And since families aren't supposed to be democratic, the role of emperor fits in nicely.
In Seven against Thebes, this sort of transferance is similar to Eteocles, who aligned himself with the state, disowned his family, and slayed his brother. In denying his family, he offended the Gods and was killed for treating his brother like a common enemy.
posted
(oops, I posted a different thread's post here at first!)
Now, this is interesting. Why is being ambitious bad? Somebody's got to do the job. Why shouldn't it be someone who wants it and believes he has the skills to do it right?
Posts: 3141 | Registered: Apr 2000
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quote: Somebody's got to do the job. Why shouldn't it be someone who wants it and believes he has the skills to do it right?
You have a few assumptions here. Someone doesn't have to do the job. I'm of the opinion that Australia is doing rather well without an emperor. Second, if ambition is your motive, you don't care about having the skills to do it right, you care about having the skills to secure the position. It seems that those are often, if not always, two different skill sets.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
People wouldn't be so interested in reading biographies of 'great men' , if those who desired and achieved power weren't so fascinating! Especially considering not all of these men had power thrust upon them--Napolean comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others who better fit your perception of a good-intentioned emperor.
However, this seems to be a less common theme in fiction, but perhaps if you read a biography of a good leader who had a large amount of absolute power, you can figure out what it is about his progression that is so interesting to you, and that might give you guidance in shaping his motivations. A well-principled businessperson also comes to mind as an example: someone who is confident of his/her skills and sought the position because he/she believed it could impact the company/economy for the better.
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), and I shall post the first 13 lines in here, as well as the Writer's Workshop, if no-one minds. I would just post it in the Writer's Forum, but the advice started here so I want to keep it here.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
