posted
I get home around 6:30, I have to brink up 5 40 kg boxes up to my moms workshop (she sells ceramics) and I do. I soak her paint brushes and I pack all her urns (30 of em) and then I go back into the house.
I do the dishes once or twice and then I go on the computer. What I do is aside from 10-30 minutes of Sake/Hatrack surfing I start trucking on my hmwk. I have a big project to do and its taking all night.
Other issues in the day: i exceeded my bandwith and I owe my parents 30$ my mom goes: Okay I don't want to have to see this every month but you are helping me so its okay.
OK!
So I continue on my work and spend the whole night, absolutely no games whatsoever on my project for VB. Then at around 10:30 at night my dad says go to bed.
I say no. I have hmwk to finish and it absolutely needs to be finished, and if I recal you said if I had hmwk to do i can stay up to do it.
So he goes quiet for a while and at 11:45 ish he begins complaining again (almost every 15 minutes he complains) this time my mom is in the house and here is where the BS begins.
My dad once more compalains, I say I need to do this; eventually I go back to mozilla and pull up wiki to research which company made whicher tank (part of the project) and he looks over and see the screen change from homework to wiki and says "thats it goto bed you aren't doing work"
I say "I am doing work I need this for my project come over and see" neither of them come over to see and insists I go to bed, and I once more say that I'm working and can't goto bed it has to be finished.
my mom says "Your listening to comedy! You can't work and listen at the same time"
And it goes into a yelling match as neither of them allow me to defend myself, I'm forced to yell over them to get them to hear me and they yell bakc saying how I'm interrupting and yelling voer them. wtf! Your not letting me speak!
I did not swear once I did not react violentely, they insist that one cannot listen to music and do work at the same time, and here's the phrases that stand out:
my dad to me: "Go to hell"
mom to me: "I did not want to have to open my mail to a 30$ bill and be paying for you books and education when your older sister is!"
also: "I just finished unpacking those boxes you didn't unpack!"
If I unpacked those boxes I wouldn't be able to do my homework! (didnt actually say this)
my dad knew I was listening to music I always listen to music/comedy when doing work and been doing it for years, my brother does it, why the hell are they complaining about it at 11:30!? (did not say)
My mom complained about how I pushed her last nerve and telling me to get to bed my dad says that next time I use my computer to ask him first in his usual pathetic attempt to look macho, he's always going on about how we should be obeying eveything he says unquestioningly, complains about my brothers girlfriend or extracurriculers.
My mom also threatened unless I at that moment stopped listening to comedy while doing work i would lose my computer permanently.
Why can't they realize that I do not have fun with my work, that listening to music I eventually try to MAKE it fun and interesting? And if I can't have fun while working then why am I in effing computer science!?
I was forced to save and turn off my computer, and the project is due today and I'm unable to finish it on time and I was 30 minutes away from finishing it. And when i mention this they say: "You would be done 30 minutes ago if you weren't listening to comedy"
WHA!? Where her Doctorate in Music Theory to know if that is true or not they have no evidence to support that except my dad's university prof in the 60's when if I am correct they also thought that smoking was healthy for you.
Also my mom made two comments: That I should be working and B) that listening to music didn't help me last long in ym last 2 jobs.
WHAT!? Does she mean the viviry where i was never hired and was working under the table as a partime dishy until they hired a full time guy? Or the time I packed worm fertilizer where I finished the job successfully?
Or does she mean the Willows where I had ASKED my superviser if I could he said yes, and the booss above him told me know the next week when i was about to listen I put it away and never touched it after and when I wa slaid off later it was never mentioned to me that it was a reason.
And as for working if she bothered to have checked she would know that I had made my cv that day yesterday and had tried to show it to me dad but he was too busy to look, and then my dad made the best comment of all.
About how the first thing I do apparently is play games, hmm... when did I play games today? Oh yes now I remember, NEVER!
Irrational, delusional, violent strike, working insane hours and stress is no excuse for how they treated me last night.
posted
Is there anything you could have done to have avoided this project turning into a late night crisis? Or anything to make your parents less likely to look upon you as having wasted a lot of time lately?
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I understand, homeslice, especially the part about parents looking in on you RIGHT as it looks like you're doing something unproductive, and then they assume you're being unproductive all the time.
Sucks. I'll think of something more substantial to say when I'm not under the influence.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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And no I spent alot of time on it before hand but the work kept getting bigger as I added on stuff to it to make it better. Since we were to create a program the teacher gave us but it was really lame so I spiffed it up at the cost of time spent doing it.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I cannot speak for whatever past issues were dredged up in this argument, but in my experience rarely is this sort of argument based on the events that spurred it alone. Almost always, there's some stuff in the past that's firing things up a bit.
Having said that, it sounds like this argument centers around your doing homework while listening to music or comedy. Since you brought up the topic and literally asked if we think your parents are insane, I'll answer: no. I think it's reasonable for a parent to assume their child is not working as hard and effectively as they could be at their homework if they're listening to music and comedy while doing so.
Music...well, music is one thing. Music doesn't require attention to 'get' it the way comedy does. Unless you're listening to a series of funny sounds, in comedy you actually have to listen and pay attention to get the jokes and derive some enjoyment. Music, you don't have to pay attention to to enjoy and relax with. I think it's much easier to multitask-such as doing homework-while listening to music than while listening to comedy.
It sounds like they've let you do just that for a while now, though, which was probably a mistake. It sounds like they're trying to rectify that mistake without admitting a mistake was made, which is of course irritating. But it doesn't make them nuts. It also sounds like they believe you have a past of gaming a lot while you should be doing schoolwork or something else.
Given your intense devotion to all things gaming demonstrated here and elsewhere, I'm inclined to think there might be some truth to this, Blayne. But that's just speculation on my part.
I think that whether or not they're right to have argued about this or not matters a lot less than what is reality. Reality is this: they're your parents, and they get to make a lot of the rules you must live by while you live thanks to their support.
You like to talk politics, so think of it this way: if the government provides food and water, clothing and shelter, stability and support, safety and leisure to its people, that government gets a big say in what its citizens can and cannot do.
I think that if you want to avoid such things in the future, a much more effective method would not be arguing in loud voices when it actually happens, but bringing it up totally seperate, quietly and politely. Oh, and quiet courtesy is a big hit with parents, too. Sometimes an ounce of quiet courtesy is more successful than a pound of loud, logical reasoning.
That's what I think. It's evident that for some reason you have a good deal of contempt for your parents, and while I think that's wrong and quite immature frankly I don't think you're ready to change your mind about that so I'll just say this: do what works, which isn't arguing with your parents in loud voices-even if they raise their voices first.
I also think that listening to comedy while doing homework is a recipe for disaster. It divides your attention in a big way, and your enjoyment of the comedy and your work both suffer from it. In fact, I cannot help but wonder if your grammar, spelling, and posting difficulties might stem from listening to comedy or dialogue while posting. I think that's something to consider.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Of course, the next question is, what do you do with insane parents? You can't change them. Telling them they're crazy won't help. Hm. Looks like you're stuck with insanity for a while.
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
All parents are insane, but you should be nice to them anyway because you probably made them that way.
Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I used to have a bumper sticker that said "INSANITY IS HEREDITARY. YOU GET IT FROM YOUR KIDS." When I was a teenager, I thought it was hysterical.
Now I think it's far too true to be very funny . . .
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Its Visual basic 6.0, I drag and drop things onto other things and write out code so that it interacts with each other, its a dead easy form of programming that I can handle in my sleep.
I understand that they make the rules but they're changing the rules suddenly and without warning, they say "be more like your sister" when they seem to forget that I remember that my dad once said that "if I had my way she would never have gotten a boyfriend" they had their own share of problems with her and now she's neurotic going from all nice and kind to being a tyrant in the same sentance, and then with my younger brother (and still do) and now me. I was ignored for most of my life cuz' I did nothing, nothing wrong but also nothing right, all i did was watch tv or read history books.
I was reasonable up the point where my dad walked up and started pointing at the programs running and pointed at the comedy and said "aha what is this!" when he alreayd knew I was listening to comedy?
My mom and dad I have nothing but love for but tonight really makes me bad, and now I can't trust my dad's word anymore, he complains when i play games late at night that if I was doing homework it would be okay, exact words in fact he did not specify anything else there is no evidence that music or comedy (they seem to disagree with both and neither of which admitted or said anything of the sort of them making a mistake) detracts from my ability to pay attention to my programming.
But there's been alot of angry recently a string of isolated events mostly a result of fighting with my sister (authority issues), complaints about my academic success, complaints how my life isn't schedualed enough.
here's the thing, if I surrender an inch I lose a mile, I barely play 2 hours as it is when I'm not overloaded with work. To "shedual" what I do he'll "edit it" until it conforms with his preposed position on what my life should be in every single second of every day.
I do my homework when I come home minus chores, I play games from 8 PM to 10:30 PM cuz they want to sleep at 10:30 (the comp room is next to their rooms so they suposedly hear my typing).
I think I know where I get my stubburness from.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
To a certain extent Rakeesh they are correct that I do play too much on certain circumstance notably during holidays, but I am not a social person nor are they're social places to hang out at in my town and nor can I go anywhere. I'm trying to get a job as soon as I finish editing my CV.
Also I remember something else dad to me: "You can be so stupid without even trying"
And really irregardless has anyone here had to deal with being told to go to hell?
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: And really irregardless has anyone here had to deal with being told to go to hell?
My stepfather once told me that if I upset him again, he would kill me in my sleep. Since this was after he strangled my dog, I believed him.
My parents told me to go to Hell every morning at breakfast.
So while you have every right to be upset, I'd cut them some slack on this one and work -- now that you're an adult -- on getting out of their house.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I have two separate perspectives, and they are battling in my mind and making me doubt MY sanity.
I remember my teen-aged years, and all the angst involved, and how my parents just did not understand me at all. My teenaged years were not the happiest of my life.
I am also the mom of a teenager, who has all that teenaged angst, and is sure that I don't understand him at all. And yeah, I do things like tell him that he is goofing off at the computer when he should be doing his homework. In fact, we just had ourselves a little scene at the Shvester house last night.
So, when I was in your shoes, I was all at my parents, and now that I am in your parents's shoes, I am all at my kid. When I think about it, sometimes it just makes me .
posted
When dealing with parents, or anyone in a debate. I try to be the calm one in the conversation. You think straighter. So you gain the upperhand. Remaining silent or calm has one of two effects. One, they get calmer with you and you talk it out. Two they get angry because their upset and you are just fine. Basically let your parents think they have won.
Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote: And Tom, my problems pale in comparison to yours... I don't know what to say.
That wasn't really my point. My point was that your parents, although irrational, are still clearly trying to work in your best interest, and you owe it to them to try to meet them on their terms while you're living in their house as an adult.
They're worried about you, and aren't quite sure how to relate to you, and this kind of thing feeds on itself.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
"parents, although irrational, are still clearly trying to work in your best interest, and you owe it to them to try to meet them on their terms while you're living in their house as an adult."
haha if only all parents said that instead of, "because I'm the adult."
Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
"parents, although irrational, are still clearly trying to work in your best interest, and you owe it to them to try to meet them on their terms while you're living in their house as an adult."
haha if only all parents said that instead of, "because I'm the adult."
Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Different people concentrate and work in different ways. Personally, I find that it's much, much easier to get work done while I'm also doing a bunch of other things. I don't know why. I NEED to multitask.
I really don't know what to tell you on handling your parents. Mine gave me a LOT of leeway in nearly every possible sense starting when I was fourteen. We did clash over homework habits and such, but I maintained very high grades despite the fact that they didn't personally observe me working on school-related things...at all. How are your grades? Do you think that if you showed your parents your performance, they'd be less concerned about what they consider slacking off?
posted
Parents can relate to other adults as adults because they never changed their diapers or had to make all the little rules about holding hands crossing the parking lot, or you can't play outside until your homework is finished, or you can't date until you're 16, etc. There isn't a day when a child ceases to be a child and is an adult; they gradually grow into one, and don't always act like one, and it's difficult for the parents to know when to change the rules that worked when you were little. And they're used to being obeyed because they're the parents, and having to change that whole relationship is difficult.
So yeah, they're insane; it's insane to have to go from caring for every need of a person, to letting them do whatever they want and not interfering anymore. It's really hard to figure out how to do it, and when, and how gradually. And they make mistakes, but sometimes feel they can't admit to it because it would undermine their authority. Like some teens I know - who can't admit their parents might be right because it would undermine their independence.
It's all just hard. It gets better.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
However I get absolutely no respect any good I do is barely substantial and disipates with the first wrong, usually when i trip going UP the stairs.
Sometimes I may have been somewhat wrong but this time I did nothing absolutely wrong except argue what my own capabilities are. I was calm for about the first while when it was just complaints about how I should be going to bed irregardless of how important my assignment is.
But when they started yelling (they started the yelling first) and accused me of yelling over them then I get miffed for I'm just trying to do my bloody homework, its like every time I get a lecture it is when I'm doing my homework and when I point this out (often enough) my dad ignores me, if he's wrong I know I'm right when he just doesn't anwsers and walks away when I'm talking to him, and to think I'm taught NOT to do that.
I am not treated like an adult, my sister says it word for word "your not an adult", and while not word for word my parents through actions don't take the same view.
I'm practically the perfect kid, never goes out, doesn't do drugs, likes learning etc etc but suddenly none of whats positive doesn't matter anymore but the negatives and my dad keeps on pointing them out and takes past events that nolonger matter or relevant, changes what happens in his mind and uses it as an arguement for the present situation.
It makes no sense.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Blayne, as you've pointed out before, you suffer from depression and a huge lack of self-confidence. I can almost guarantee you that your parents are able to pick up on this. And it's very possible that they conclude that one of the causes of this situation is the time you spend on the computer, for whatever reason. So they seek to minimize the amount of time you spend looking at a screen, which you find frustrating because you also need to look at a screen to do homework.
Why not, then, meet them halfway by explaining that you're going to cut down on the number of online games you play on any given day, and make a serious effort to go to bed around 9 or 10PM? I'm pretty sure any paranoia they exhibit about your computer habits will slowly dissipate after you make that change.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I usually goto bed at 10:30 and I only really start my game playing (with exceptions) at 8 PM, perfectly reasonable but my dad is under the impression that the first thing I do when i get home (around 6 PM) is play games. This is wrong and no one believes me.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Oh and ya, can everyone edit from my name to Sid, because i don't wanan get caught, bad things happen, no thye don't frequent Hatrack but someone around here apparently knows my sister and rated on me the last time I posted my domestic problems. Wait never mind, pointless just by having this message such a person could make the mental conection.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Perhaps you could cut back to two "game nights" a week? Believe me, when you get older, that'll seem like a luxury. I manage to play video games one night a month, on average.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote: usually goto bed at 10:30 and I only really start my game playing (with exceptions) at 8 PM, perfectly reasonable but my dad is under the impression that the first thing I do when i get home (around 6 PM) is play games. This is wrong and no one believes me.
I find it pretty funny that you think it's perfectly reasonable to play video games "only" 2.5 hours per night.
I hope you don't take too much offense, but that's hardly an adult attitude. Most adults are busy working and maintaining relationships and don't have the luxury of spending 2.5 hours per day on something as unproductive as gaming.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I suggest headphones. The big kind that fit over your ears. I suggest that because I think part of them is just annoyed at hearing whatever it is that you're playing. My second reason is because it's a lot harder to nag someone who's sitting facing away from you and is wearing big obvious headphones. Whether you get those or not, I also suggest switching to music while you're doing homework.
Start logging your homework time for each project you do. If you work 1.5 hours one day on a particular assignment, log it in a spreadsheet with the date and time. Do that for the entire project. Next time it's the day before an assignment is due and you find yourself still with several hours to do before bed and the same thing happens, show your parents your log. If they still insist that you must go to bed and neglect your homework, type up a letter for them to sign that you can give to your teacher to excuse you from the work. After all, you're just a kid, right? I'm really kidding... don't do that. But a log is a good idea, I think. It will help you manage your time better, too. (We ALL need help with that.)
And if you have a pending homework assignment due in a week or two, get it finished sooner rather than later. That means working instead of playing games until 10:30. Play games when you're done. I think if YOU police your time better, then your parents wouldn't feel the need to do it.
And lastly... work on moving out. Your relationship with your parents will improve drastically.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
And nobody only spends 10-15 minutes on hatrack at a time. It only FEELS that way...
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Trust me, unless there is A) a inter clan scrim for CoD or B) some finish/German/Chinese dudes wanna play something (becuase of time difference) I 90% of the time only play games when I'm done my homework. I do police myself.
And yes I am working on the spreadsheet thing, the thing I'm worried about is that they'll decide what should be cut back on and at what time, basically schedualling when i can goto the bathroom. I want to avoid that if I can't police myself what's the point of them doing it if I revert at every oppurtunity?
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Two to three hours per night, not just on weekends, is definitely not 'policing yourself'. That is excess, that is over 10% of your life playing games. More than that, really, since eight hours a day, give or take, you're sleeping. So two to three hours of gaming per night is actually more like 15-20% of your life.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:I am not a social person nor are they're social places to hang out at in my town and nor can I go anywhere.
Are you willing to listen to and try some suggestions? Because I'm sure the Hatrack community can help you out with some ideas for recreational and interesting things to do despite being stuck in a boring town.
Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
This is probably entirely unhelpful, but can I just say that I am *so* happy I no longer live with my parents?
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Well there *is* school and sometimes I can attent various club meetings. But the only means of easy transportation is a train and that 6:40 AM.
At least I have a plan to get a job say in the west island, take train in the morning take bus to work, bus back and go home via train.
It is policing ones self if one used to play 4-6 hours per night I've managed to halve my computer timee.
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I'm not nearly as bad as I used to be!
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
What were you addicted too? lets see you were probly in your teans in the 70's.... oh haha.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
my dad's an idiot and a hypocrit here's proof:
Tonight he told me to get off the computer because A) I apparently did not do what I was asked.
However, the problem here is that he's an idiot and bother to consider that dispite being sick which currently is now sore throat, dizzyness, nausea, and a head ache I did not only my chores but my brother's chores as well. I did several loads of laundry, without being asked, I did several loads of dishes, and I swept the floor (which he aggressively told me to do right away not in 5 minutes right away because apparently doing it yestderday but missing 2-3 spots is not considered doing a job), I organized my clothes and thus made the room neater dispite:
B) it was not ym room it was the somewhat large younger brother's room who hadn't compalined about my clothes. Thus my dad should NOT have complained about it it was not his room his reaons?
He needs extra space for his tools... ?? Not his room!!!
I also moved 40 pound boxes for my mom and I had to go back and forth between the house and the studio dispite freezing cold.
And this is the thanks I get? Instead of staying on until 11 as planend I have to leave at 10:15 because he apparently wants to sleep at 10:30 dispite the fact I can hear HIM not going to bed until 11:00.
He's a hypocrit because I get grounded for using the f*** word (dispite having never used it except when extremely angry, its a recent thing 3 years or so) dispite the fact that BOTH parents swear regularily and when i point this out his excuse? Apparently I aggrevate him, well he also complains about me talking back.
But my talking back is because he's being irrational, and this is making my throat worse and when i mention this he doesn't care.
I'm probly going to end up hacking up a lung and some blood soon.
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Please don't hack up a lung. 'Cause if you do, you'll be compelled to post a "Attention Hatrack Medicos -- I just coughed up one of my lungs" thread. And we've had quite enough of those!
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I also came up with a great joke its like a zinger, oh I gotta tell my friend Deslauriers, currently it really hurts to swallow and my friend is bi I'm not but we make jokes all the time and he appriates them. So there's 2 versions ones more incriminating and more for a close group of friends and other is an average joke for average people.
But I really shouldn't say either, ones kinda embarrasing (for me anyways) one isn't but kinda inappropiate :note: the joke is in the fact I can't swallow think, make the connection. >_<
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quote: However, the problem here is that he's an idiot...
Blayne, I have to admit that if you were MY kid, and you called me an idiot ANYWHERE I could hear you, you'd never use my computer again.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Sid Meier: However I get absolutely no respect any good I do is barely substantial and disipates with the first wrong, usually when i trip going UP the stairs.
Sometimes I may have been somewhat wrong but this time I did nothing absolutely wrong except argue what my own capabilities are. I was calm for about the first while when it was just complaints about how I should be going to bed irregardless of how important my assignment is.
But when they started yelling (they started the yelling first) and accused me of yelling over them then I get miffed for I'm just trying to do my bloody homework, its like every time I get a lecture it is when I'm doing my homework and when I point this out (often enough) my dad ignores me, if he's wrong I know I'm right when he just doesn't anwsers and walks away when I'm talking to him, and to think I'm taught NOT to do that.
I am not treated like an adult, my sister says it word for word "your not an adult", and while not word for word my parents through actions don't take the same view.
I'm practically the perfect kid, never goes out, doesn't do drugs, likes learning etc etc but suddenly none of whats positive doesn't matter anymore but the negatives and my dad keeps on pointing them out and takes past events that nolonger matter or relevant, changes what happens in his mind and uses it as an arguement for the present situation.
It makes no sense.
That was how my teen life was. Good kid, with good grades, in sports, no parties or drinking. Got shafted all the time- yelled at, punished, ignored and the guilt piled on. My sis drank, did drugs, failed school, and otherwise was rebellious. She got attention and praise and was trusted. Go figure.
Get out. Set boundaries with love. When they abuse it, you can retreat a bit. But by getting some distance, you can still love them- just in smaller doses. My relationship with my parents improved immensely but I had to act like an adult, get out and let them know that I would not be treated like that anymore. We had our moments but I was able to deal better because I was not being bombarded all the time by my mother. And I could have my space.
It will get better!
Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Sid, do you have a friend you could move in with? A relative nearby who wouldn't mind? Your parents know they can take advantage of you, and they will continue to do so as long as you let them. It's not like with friends or coworkers where you can expect to help set the boundaries. You could give it a try, but I don't think it would go well.
posted
Oh no I never called him an idiot, I'm just saying it here because I find his actions stupid and the reasoning behind them stupid.
He blames me as well when one of my brother's chores do't get done but doesn't listen when i say I am not the one he should complain too, he also replied he doesn't care or that my brother (who gets near perfect marks btw, who has plays and a GF) is not dependable to do a chore when asked.
He ingores me when i say that is not my problem and I should not be yelled or swore at because you are angry at him.
He also once talked to me in a car ride about how my brother should choose a different career where the money/demand is at. My brother wants to be a math teacher a high school math teacher so he can repair the damage before they get to college.
And my dad is talking to me about he should think of a different path. my thoughts are "your not happy with just nagging me to change what I really wanted to do but now ruining his chance to get the job he wants as well?"
He also complains about Adrians plays even to the point where Adrian reufsed to do one because my dad uses it to condenscend him, saying "oh is this an act", "are you acting", "putting on a show are we" kind of insults.
Trust me it wasn't like this a few years ago when all I did was read books, what age is it when someone's testosterone gets the point where you have to be macho?
I hope it will improve with distance as well. I do have a friend I can consider moving in with but I don't have the money as of yet together for room and board.
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As much as it bothers me as an not-currently-teaching English teacher, there seems to be a great demand for math and science high school teachers. Your brother might not be such the fool that your father thinks after all.
I see evidence of this demand in the education journals I sometimes peruse as I am checking them into the library.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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