posted
I'm a greedy, lieing, bad-boy who is doing a bad thing.
In other words, a concience is a pain.
See, I have been looking for new employement since the begining of the year. (My job with the printing company did not last.)
It was slow going until about Valentine's day. Suddenly I was swamped with great interviews and possibilities.
Unfortunately, one by one, those possibilities dried up. No by no, people with more exact experience seemed to take those positions I was up for.
All but one.
Last Friday I had three interviews scheduled. The first was a followup interview on a phone interview. It went very well, and the company has great potential. Unfortunately, they are slow on their decision making, and I won't get an answer for the next round of interviews until sometime next week.
The third interview offered almost as much money, in a great atmosphere. They seemed very strict on their process, and promised to call late this week or early next week.
The second interview, the one in the middle, wasn't really an interview. I had already interviewed with them earlier. It was their chance to offer me a job.
The offer was acceptable, but I wanted to spend the weekend (last weekend) going over it. Basically, it is second rate health care, second rate pay and long hours.
Last weekend after lots of thought, I decided to accept that position.
Then came the bad news. That position couldn't start me until 3/13. They pay monthly so my first check wouldn't be coming until 4/15. Basically, I have two weeks unpaid vacation before my job starts.
All was going OK.
Then came the call today.
Interveiw Number 3, better money and better benefits, wants me back for a second interview on Monday.
I am going.
If they offer me the job, I will take it.
And frankly, if the 1st interveiw calls me next week and offers me that job, I'll take it instead.
Which means that if I am lucky, I'll be having to call and tell someone I promised to work for, that I won't be working for them.
Its a rotten thing to do.
So I guess I'm just writing this here to ease my concience. I'm hoping since nothing was signed, I am not really being a jerk.
But hey, its over $10,000 a year difference.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I see nothing wrong with it. You have to look out for yourself. Company loyalty only holds when you've been there for a while.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
As soon as you know that the favored job is a shoo-in, phone the HR director, or whoever it was that interviewed you, and let them know that you were offered, and accepted, another job. You can let them know that the salary and benefits were much better, and that even though you would really like to work for them, you couldn't pass up the offer.
Follow up with a nice letter thanking them for the offer, but withdrawing your application.
The offered you a job, but they don't own you. You are not doing anything wrong by accepting a better offer.
posted
The above comments are especially true if the offer is for "at-will" employment. If you haven't signed a contract for a term of employment you should be free to go. For good relations you should send them the nice letter though.
I feel you on the waiting game though. I have been waiting for well over a month and finally called today and found that I probably didn't get it.
quote:Originally posted by Stan the man: I see nothing wrong with it. You have to look out for yourself. Company loyalty only holds when you've been there for a while.
Even when you've been with a company for a while, you still have to look out for yourself. As long as you give adequate notice, why not take a better job?
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" notes that, for many employers, the process goes straight from application to orientation without a pause for negotiation or consideration, creating a feeling of obligation in prospective employees that may be against their interests.
(And if I ever put that many "-ation" wods in one sentence again, someone please slap me.)
Don't feel too bad about this one. The polite letter is a good idea- it's good not to burn bridges- but you have a right to look out for your own best interests. It's what your prospective employers are looking to when they're considering hiring you, after all.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I think it's ok to feel a little bad that you're not going to take the job after all - he probably lost other candidates relying on you. But considering you could quit with no notice and he could fire you with no notice,* you're not doing anything wrong. Still, it's ok to aknowledge he's being inconvenienced.
Of course, he could offer competitive wages and working conditions if he didn't want this to happen.
Edit: *This depends on whether or not you have a contract and whether or not you work in an at-will state.
posted
You aren't going to perish in flames. You're doing what you need to get the money you need. That's called survival but try not to be too mean to your current boss when you quit.
Posts: 1164 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
You might tell them that you have been offered a position with better pay and benefits and see if they can match it or at least up their offer. If not, tell them that while you would love to work for them, that you can't pass up the other job. Then take it with a clear conscience.
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Dan, same as the other said. I've watched people in my training class leave for jobs with better pay and/or benefits with no ill will on the part of the company or anyone else. As long as you're up front about why, it shouldn't be something sending you to hell.
And CERTAINLY not the special hell.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote: Echoing FG and adding that I would also advise them of the start date/first paycheck concern.
Um... I'm flattered that you were thinking of me today, Goody. However, I haven't posted yet in this thread, so I know you weren't echoing me. Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
1) Your prospective employer hasn't lost a single candidate because of your tentative acceptance. And it is tentative because 2) You haven't been paid, you haven't signed a contract and received the consideration needed to make any contract valid. 3) Considering no pay, no valid contract, and that you aren't workin now, s/he's still lookin. And won't think twice about callin' ya back and saying, "I'm sorry but the position is no longer open." should a better prospect turn up. And thus you owe nothing... ...because basicly you're being left hanging. So if a better offer turns up, take it without the slightest hesitancy. It costs a prospective employer absolutely nothing to fill a job with a starting date in the future with a candidate other than yourself.
Admittedly it would be good etiquette to tell the prospective employer that you've accepted a better offer after you've started that better job; for the sake of other job candidates, for future good will. Or if the better job has an even later start date, to allow the prospective employer to make a better counter-offer with those better terms of employment set in a valid contractual form. Remember*: an oral contract ain't worth the paper it's written on... ...excluding acceptance of a consideration -- cash, property, etc; usually there are additional legal minimums on what constitutes a valid consideration -- by one party.
* There are only a few exceptions, but those are for specific fields such as stockmarket floor trading and similarly time-sensitive endeavors.
posted
I think employers need to know that sub-par wages and benefits won't guarantee them quality people. What they decide to do with that information is up to them, of course, but hopefully it will cause changes in how much they pay people.
I work at a state university, and the wages and salaries are not set by the people I work with. They're set by HR in a completely different building, and they want salaries and wages to be as low as possible, because their bosses want them to be as low as possible, and so on. Anyway, they've filled my position about 5 or more times in the last 5 years, and most of the time, the reason people leave is because of the pathetic wages. When my bosses can tell HR that they can't keep people in the job because of low-pay, that helps raise the salary just a little.
Wow.. that was way too much in response. I ramble.
Anyway, don't feel bad. Job seekers apply at more than one place, and accept the best job offered, no matter which company asks first. That's the way it works, and employers know that.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:You haven't been paid, you haven't signed a contract and received the consideration needed to make any contract valid.
This is an inaccurate representation of the law. Promise of consideration is sufficient consideration for forming a contract. It is entirely possible for a binding contract to be formed with no signature and no money changing hands.
There are other reasons why a contract might or might not exist in this situation. Consideration is not one of them.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Hafta disagree. The occasional odd exception between eg producers and bankable Hollywood stars is not applicable to the general employment scene.
Admittedly, what constitutes valid consideration is wider than simply cash and/or property, which is why I put in the etc. eg You've agreed to head a new or significantly altered department, for which your future employer has to make outlays (including contractual) for eg equipment, employees, etc. If a reasonable person within the field should have expected those outlays, then those outlays can be held to be valid consideration.
posted
You can disagree all you want. It's still wrong.
in most states, merely accepting a job when offered a start date, salary, benefits, etc. does not form a contract.
This is not because there is no consideration. It is because special statutory rules have been created regarding employment.
From Restatement (Second) of Contracts Sec. 71:
quote:(1) To constitute consideration, a performance or a return promise must be bargained for.
(2) A performance or return promise is bargained for if it is sought by the promisor in exchange for his promise and is given by the promisee in exchange for that promise.
Most importantly for this discussion, " [a] promise is a manifestation of intention to act or refrain from acting in a specified way, so made as to justify a promisee in understanding that a commitment has been made." Restatement Sec. 2.
Again, your statement that a contract doesn't exist is almost certainly correct. Your reason is wrong. It has nothing to do with "occasional odd exception[s] between eg producers and bankable Hollywood stars."
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:You've agreed to head a new or significantly altered department, for which your future employer has to make outlays (including contractual) for eg equipment, employees, etc. If a reasonable person within the field should have expected those outlays, then those outlays can be held to be valid consideration.
Those outlays have nothing to do with consideration. They have to do with reliance and with damages, not whether a contract exists.
If I say, "I promise to do X if you'll do Y," and you say, "OK, then I'll do Y," adequate consideration exists in both directions for a contract to exist.* It is one promise in return for another. In most cases, this is enough to form a contract, although there are many situations where a contract will not be formed. And, of course, there will be difficulty proving the existence of such a contract in many cases (lack of witnesses, etc.).
In many cases, without a written contract, the prospective head of the department will not be liable for those expenditures under the at will doctrine. Most employers would seek a written contract before making such outlays for that very reason.
*This assumes a few things about X and Y - that both can be completed in under a year, that neither concerns the disposition of real property, and a few other things. But those are couched as exceptions to oral contract formation - if the contract was written and signed, then a contract would be formed - not as to whether those exceptions constitute consideration.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
well, the second job officially offered me more money, better benefits, and an earlier start time, so tomorrow I get to call the first one and say, "Sorry, but I found something better."
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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My sympathies for having to tell the other job the bad news, though. That's tough. But were I in your position, I would have done the same.
Posts: 952 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Hooray! There's nothing wrong with that at all, Dan, just be polite about it and don't act like you're all excited that you didn't have to work for them.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Dude, your conscious is WAAAY too sensitive. But then I'm coming from the other side, having given 8 years of excellence to an employer that is kicking some 300 of us out the door. I'm jumping ship in about a month and the only people I feel sorry for are my co-workers who will have to pick up the slack.
Employee/employer loyalty is becoming more and more a thing of the past. Don't think for a moment that they won't shove you out the door if the bottom line starts to look shaky. You can be nice about it, and it seems you were, but ultimately You do have to put yourself first.
Posts: 232 | Registered: Jan 2005
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