posted
I have an idea for a business, and I'm not sure how to go about protecting that idea so that the people I pitch it to don't steal it from me.
The business I have in mind COULD be taken care of by any number of agencies already existing, but it isn't. The agencies have a much broader business scope, and, as far as I know, only provide the service mine would provide in a few states, where the government has decided to contract with them for them to completely take over the service. In those states, they operate the business differently than I would, providing services that I have no need to provide for mine to work.
You see in my case, the institutions I would work with (public and private) would not need to change. I would provide a service that I imagine has a high demand, and is not being provided by the institutions.
I know this is very vague, but it is a public forum, and I don't want to give away my idea. That's the whole point of my posting this. What can I do to protect my idea? Should I pursue a patent, which seems to be originally to protect inventions, not ideas... or should I pursue a copyright? Or something else?
(In summary, my business would provide a service very similar to what several agencies already could provide, but generally aren't. And in addition, the services my business would provide would be specialized and less-complicated than said agencies, causing less change to institutions that are often slow-changing.)
quote:A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others. A copyright protects an original artistic or literary work; a patent protects an invention.
From the United States Trademark and Patent Office. Your idea doesn't fall under any of these categories. In fact, the laws are purposefully written to prevent things like what you're talking about.
If you want to keep someone from stealing your idea, do it on your own. And do it better than your competitors.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
So I could get a copyright for my logo, business name, etc, but not the business idea?
Without going into specifics, I think my idea is unique, because of the different parts that I bring together, and the needed service that I would provide.
...
Well, I was hoping that I could protect the specific idea from people who would steal it, but I'm starting to think that's not possible...even though the snippets I read on the web seemed to indicate that you COULD patent a business idea. I am not trying to prevent competition in the future, I'm trying to prevent someone from stealing the idea before I even begin. Once I'm established, people probably will want to copy the idea in other places, and that's okay.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:In fact, the laws are purposefully written to prevent things like what you're talking about.
I don't understand why the laws would be trying to prevent me from starting this business. The agencies I was talking about obviously have competition, since there's more than one of them. And mine would be very specific, serve a need in the community, and, as a whole, is unique to anything I've seen being done out there.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:So I could get a copyright for my logo, business name, etc, but not the business idea?
Some of that could fall under copyright (possibly the logo), and the name would fall under trademark.
quote:I don't understand why the laws would be trying to prevent me from starting this business.
They aren't. The laws are written to keep you from preventing others from starting similar buisnesses.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Don't worry about people stealing your idea. No offense, but most people have far too high a notion of the theftworthiness of their ideas. There are not vast legions of idea stealers out there to take it from you (or legions of minimal acreage). Your idea has occurred to many people, including people in those same businesses who aren't exactly doing it, its just that they're not doing it, for whatever reason.
I see this sort of thing over and over again (in my case, mainly in software ideas).
Good ideas are a dime a dozen, execution is always the hard part. If you manage to put your idea into action, and it works, then people might replicate it. Until then, you have nothing to worry about.
re: patents, the laws are written to prevent people from patenting unoriginal ideas, partly to protect market entry. WIthout details, there's no way to know if your idea is patentable.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
As for copyright/trademark, your logo would be copyrighted by the creator (you or a hired graphic designer), but you'd be able to trademark it, which is all you need. Your business name would also (likely) be trademarkable, though its not like you need to be in any rush to trademark either, its just something to put on the checklist of things to do at some point.
To really get a business going, you'll want to talk to a CPA and an attorney. The first thing to do, though, would be to get some small business counseling; there are tons of places that do it free, often through the state, city, or a chamber of commerce. They'll be able to fill you in on all the details, as well as recommend what sort of business might make sense for you.
I actually suggest you tell us your idea, btw. Even assuming that someone in one of these existing organizations you mention would want to steal your idea, and would be well enough placed to corner the market such that you couldn't enter, the possibility that someone on hatrack is associated with such an organization is tiny. Also, we're a reasonably intelligent group of people who may be able to significantly aid you in refining your idea, a very valuable service.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Your business name would also (likely) be trademarkable, though its not like you need to be in any rush to trademark either, its just something to put on the checklist of things to do at some point.
Simply registering your business with your state gov't protects you a great deal when it comes to protecting your business name. If you're starting an internet/chain/national/international business, you'll probably want to trademark it.
quote:Don't worry about people stealing your idea. No offense, but most people have far too high a notion of the theftworthiness of their ideas. There are not vast legions of idea stealers out there to take it from you (or legions of minimal acreage). Your idea has occurred to many people, including people in those same businesses who aren't exactly doing it, its just that they're not doing it, for whatever reason.
Mostly true, but not completely - which is why we see new kinds of businesses spring up all the time.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Well, I'm not worried about hatrack, I just don't want it to show up in websearches. I think the idea is marketable anywhere, though, and probably something that is needed anywhere.
Thanks for the advice about getting some small business counseling. I was just reading about licenses and insurance, etc. etc. that I'm probably going to need, and taxes I'm going to have to pay, and it's all really daunting. I'm glad to know that there are many places that offer free counseling.
I'm not ready to share the idea at this time, but maybe sometime soon, when I'm a little more established, at least having a written business plan.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I'm not sure which part your statement contradicts. Of course there are plenty of ideas people are implementing, but in her case people aren't (as far as he knows), which is all I said. But pretty much any idea people implement successfully has been thought of before, often quite frequently.
I'm not saying there are no original ideas, but extremely few are, and in many cases its hard to identify the original idea going back in time. I'm not sure what the last original business idea was; it certainly happened a while back. Almost always what makes a business innovative and successful has vanishingly little to do with ideas, and quite a lot to do with the skill of their implementation.
posted
Realize that for it to be found quickly on websearches the searcher would have to have already had your idea . Additionally, unless you're using some rather unique keywords, hatrack isn't likely to be on the first ten or twenty pages of results for more general searches.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I think you're referring to me in that first paragraph, fugu13, but I'm not sure, because I'm a girl. Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:I'm not ready to share the idea at this time, but maybe sometime soon, when I'm a little more established, at least having a written business plan.
Written business plans are so, so very important. Spend as much time as you need generating one - and then refer to it often.
quote:I'm not saying there are no original ideas, but extremely few are, and in many cases its hard to identify the original idea going back in time. I'm not sure what the last original business idea was; it certainly happened a while back. Almost always what makes a business innovative and successful has vanishingly little to do with ideas, and quite a lot to do with the skill of their implementation.
I think a difference in implementation is enough to consider something a new idea. It's what seperates travel on a sailboat from travel on a 747.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Obviously the line is blurred, but I'm thinking more like the difference between having a drink cart and having the flight attendants go around asking for drink orders first. Its hard to argue there's any new idea in either approach.
The difference between a sailboat and an airplane is not merely one of implementation.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Obviously the line is blurred, but I'm thinking more like the difference between having a drink cart and having the flight attendants go around asking for drink orders first. Its hard to argue there's any new idea in either approach.
The difference between a sailboat and an airplane is not merely one of implementation.
It sounds like you're drawing an arbitrary line that doesn't really exist.
For further clarification: would you say that the first espresso coffee shop to use a drive-thru was a "new idea"?
Would you say that the person who created Beanie Babies had a "new idea"?
In both of these instances, I think the only thing that differentiates them (to different degrees) from things that have come before is implementation, yet both are distinctly "new ideas."
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
m_p_h: yes, but merely hiring someone to do the logo does not make it work for hire.
erosomniac: if everything that is not exactly the same as what was before is a new idea, the notion of new idea becomes useless. I prefer to acknowledge a blurry distinction between two useful concepts than promote a useless concept.
katarain: I give up, just assume I'm speaking with the genderless his .
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:erosomniac: if everything that is not exactly the same as what was before is a new idea, the notion of new idea becomes useless. I prefer to acknowledge a blurry distinction between two useful concepts than promote a useless concept.
I really am actually interested in your answers to my questions. You claim that the difference between transporting people by boat and by plane is a difference beyond implementation that (by implication) qualified it as new. I'm failing to see what this magical distinction is.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Short answer: see an attorney about a non-disclosure agreement that people you pitch to would sign. It's very standard and few refuse to sign as long as it's short, clear, and explicit that if they already knew about the idea, it wouldn't stop them from trying it. You make it mutual so that you are also agreeing not to disclose things they tell you in the pitch meeting.
Rules vary from state to state, but it's not a hard thing to come up with. I do recommend an attorney for it, though.
On the work for hire issue, the rules are not what people think they are. It's easy to guarantee that a logo is work for hire, but it's also easy to screw it up by missing one of the formal rules.
Trademark requires conducting business under the mark - there's no trademark until there's trade.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Its not magical; boats are very unlike planes, and creating a plane requires considerable knowledge separate from that needed for creating a boat. Now, the notion of putting people on a plane was hardly a novel idea, but that is not all that's involved in transporting people by plane.
Yes, deciding to put people aboard a new sort of moving apparatus is not novel; my impression was you were trying to encompass the creation of the new method of transport in your example.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Its worth pointing out that good designers will charge significantly more for transfer of the logo copyright; its valuable independent of the logo itself.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
A couple of thoughts about protecting a business "idea" that is not otherwise afforded protection by patent law, copyright law or trademark law (some of this may be obvious):
1. Don't disclose your business plan/business models to any potential employees, suppliers or contractors who will assist you in implementing the business, or potential investors/lenders, without their first signing a Non-Disclosure Agreement or Confidentiality Agreement. I concur with Dagonee's comments above.
2. Consider obtaining a trademark or service mark for the name of your business and/or service. Try to come up with great names that would give you a heads up on competition. You can get a trademark or service mark before you are actually using it in commerce if you have a bona fide intent to use the trademark or service mark in the future.
3. Consider securing domain names that are readily identifiable with your service/business model.
4. Don't disclose anything to anybody, other than those who have signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement, until you have a full business plan written and you are about ready to implement your plan - including the financing you may need to get started. You want to be the first to move on your idea.
5. Try to assemble at the outset the resources (such as expertise) that give you a headstart on your competition. (This is probably obvious.)
Posts: 195 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:2. Consider obtaining a trademark or service mark for the name of your business and/or service. Try to come up with great names that would give you a heads up on competition. You can get a trademark or service mark before you are actually using it in commerce if you have a bona fide intent to use the trademark or service mark in the future.
Good clarification. I see my statement made it sound like you had to start the trade first.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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