posted
I don't know how you have spoilers for a putatively non-fiction book, but there you go. This is a book by Norah Vincent, a lesbian journalist, who goes undercover as a man in environments ranging from bowling league, door to door sales force, strip clubs, a visiting novice of a monastery, and finally an "Iron John" inspired male recovery group.
There is also a chapter on her trying the dating scene as a man, and being amazed at the level of rejection they experience. In a nutshell, this chapter encapsulates her policy on self-revelation. If she forms a real connection with a person, she tells them the truth. If it's not important, she doesn't. Though in the end of the experiment, she came up against a conundrum where revealing herself did not seem to be under her control. She had gone too far, and experienced a nervous breakdown as the male personn[a] she was creating began to create her.
It was a very difficult book for me to read, in that a lot of the dialogue was similar to them movies where they show how ungenteel military training is. So I don't know as I can recommend it.
But the "payoff" as it were is in the end where she says all men are just pretending to be men like she was. She says it in a much more convincing way than I just did. It had to do with the Iron John theory that all men have an archetypical hero by which they measure themselves. I think the point of that therapeutic exercise was to discard this ideal and be authentic. Though she gives the conflicting idea that men and women may be doomed to never really know each other.
Well, what do you all think? Do you men monitor your feelings based on some secretly held ideal of what a man should be? Can men and women really know each other? I feel like they can, but she was very big on the idea that a lot of men will do what they want and tell comfortable lies to their wives.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I saw a segment about her on some news program a few months ago. I thought it was kind of immoral and selfish of her, personally. I mean, I know female-to-male transmen, and that's one thing. They're being who they really are. But Norah Vincent wasn't in that category. And what she was doing was basically invading the private space of others for her own gain.
I hate when men do that. And I'm sure Vincent does as well. I don't get how she thinks it's any more moral for her to do it to them.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:I think the point of that therapeutic exercise was to discard this ideal and be authentic.
I absolutely try to live up to a hypothetical ideal, although that ideal isn't based on any one person I know. If I did not, I would be a far worse person; I think it's in everyone's best interest that we men do this.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I read about 2/3 of this book (up to about half of her experience in the cloister). For the most part, I found myself agreeing profoundly. There is this ideal that men must live up to, even if only in their mind. Her statement that, to paraphrase, she felt like she was a little kid inside a man suit and that that's probably how many men feel, really hit home. We have all these stereotypes and ideals about how we should react, how we should be. And, as Tom said, this is not necessarily a bad thing. We try to be better than we really are.
Well, to an extent. We do grown into the ideal that we hold, or at least, if we try, we begin to approach it and our self-confidence continues to grow. I know that over the years my own maturity and self-confidence has grown. I see myself finally beginning to achieve a self image that is closer to the ideal that I carry around with me. Perhaps that is also because the ideal changes with reality and an understanding of other men my age. When deep friendships develop and you are able to open up to your friends and vice-versa, you begin to realize how often EVERYONE carries around many of the same insecurities as yourself. While we can appreciate that intellectually at any age, as you get older and actually see it in your friends, the reality really hits you. So you become more comfortable in yourself, or at least, not so down on yourself. At least, that's where I am at, now.
But I will say that the dating game is still a tough one. Women do hold an amazing amount of power. You get shot down, suck it up, and try again. And again. And again. You have to maintain your sense of self-worth in spite of relatively constant rejection. But I found her statements interesting about what she expected women to want (a woman in a man's body) versus what she really found (most women want a real man.) Of course, that only feeds the male insecurity of living up to a perceived ideal, both from their peers and from women.
I found it oddly comforting, in a way. Though I missed the end, so I'm not sure of her conclusions.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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