quote:When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it
As spoken by Edward R. Murrow and as seen by me tonight in Good Night and Good Luck. Which I enjoyed immensly.
But that quote got me to thinking about my own views of this country and my place in it. I've never really considered myself an "American". At least not in a patriotic sense, though I've lived here the majority of my life. Because, what does it mean to be an American? I have an American citizenship. I pay taxes to the government. I speak English. I am informed by the American media. Is that enough? Does being an American require some sort of intrinsic level of patriotism, of care about being an "American"?
I could never in my life fully align myself with any one group. I didn't choose to live in America, so what exactly makes me American? If being an American is a state of mind, I don't think I have it. I was born in the Ukraine and my family is all Russian and came over to this country when I was three years old. Am I russian? Interestingly, my mother in conversation recently told me that she doesn't consider herself Russian anymore. She considers herself an American who speaks russian. Whose history includes living in and growing up in Russia. But she, in her mind, is an American. My heritage is Jewish. I was raised Jewish. So does that make me Jewish, even if my personal beliefs are atheistic now? I've associated myself with all those different labels at different times in my life, but I didn't choose those states of being. I was born into them, or they came about through happenstance, through no will of my own. And how can I be judged for things where I had no choice or free will.
I guess my point is a discussion about the differences in American as a label and American as a state of being. Because I AM an American. And a Jew. And a Rusky. And a runner. And a geek. And an incredibely sexy man. Those are all labels that are in some way acurate of me, but what do I see myself as? Without being too cheesy, I'd say a member of the human race. We're all in this together and I feel defining myself only as an American is a disservice to humanity. What would happen if the Isrealies stopped looking at the Palestiniens as "Palestiniens", but just as people who lived next door. And vica versa. I think so many problems in our history and present are just a result of this group seperation and exclusivity. My religion and your religion. My country and your country. This is the downside of national pride taken to an extreme. Similar to the fighting that proffessional sports inspires in its fans.
And yet I think cultural identity is important. Not losing your heritage is important. The amazing diversity of human languages and cultures and traditions is not something to be thrown away in an attempt to get rid of our differences so we all "get along".
I also understand the fact of life is that there exist all these seperate countries with their own land, and borders, and laws, and identity, and that I live in one of them. And I am thankful for, and appreciate, the freedoms and quality of life I am able to have because I live in this country. And after an extremely long train of thought, this is why the above quotes made me think. Because I long for the betterment of mankind. For peace. For progress. And just because I disagree with our current adminstration, or certain laws or features of this country, does not make me UN-AMERICAN. Just because I am unhappy with facets of our government and the motives of individuals inside of it, does not make me un-American.
I'm kind of drained from the lenth of this, which wasn't intentional. So I'll end here without really completing my point, as I can't think straight anymore. But I think "loyal opposition" is an interesting term and rang true with me. The soul of America isn't any specific thing. It can't be described with a label. It's not republicans or democrats, liberals or conservitives. It's about certain unalienable rights; life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. So in this sense I am an American and proud of it. But my hope is that one day these unalienable rights are not used to define only Americans, but used to define the whole human race.
quote:Originally posted by Strider: [QUOTE] I guess my point is a discussion about the differences in American as a label and American as a state of being. Because I AM an American. And a Jew. And a Rusky. And a runner. And a geek. And an incredibely sexy man. Those are all labels that are in some way acurate of me, but what do I see myself as?
Vanya from Enchantment?
Posts: 1757 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm glad that most of the un-American talk that seemed to permeate the air after the Iraq War started has mostly gone away. At the very least, we don't see Congressmen blatently calling each other unAmerican, though it wasn't long ago that that war vet Democrat (Murtha?) lost his seat in Congress to an opponent that painted him as unAmerican (this after he lost like three of his limbs fighting for America).
The idea of what is and isn't American, or American style patriotism is very much in the eye of the beholder. Some will paint patriotism as unflagging devotion to the country, regardless of what that means supporting. Some would say it's more of an adherence to a set of ideals, and that criticism of a government that doesn't uphold those ideals is more patriotic than blind support of that government.
Edit to add: Didn't get a chance to finish my thought, laptop power was dying. I personally fall more into the latter group. This dovetails off the discussion from the flag burning thing. I ascribe more to the "America as an idea" rather than "America as a static thing" argument. I support the idea of what America could be, and will criticize anything that gets in the way of that. If that means attacking America as it is, then so be it, doesn't make me less American, it makes me a supporter of how much greater we could be, it makes me a proponent of change.
With things so polarized these days, there will always be someone crying foul, but it's America, people have a right to be whatever they want to be, and part of that means defining themselves as whatever they want. Being American or unAmerican in this sense has no set of rules or documentation, it's a state of mind. No one has a monopoly on being American.
posted
Murtha is still in Congress. I guess you mean Sen. Max Cleland(GA-D), who lost his seat in 2002. Oddly, even though I am a political junkie who lives in Georgia, I can't remember that campaign. I do remember being surprised he lost, he was an OK senator.
It's true the un-American charge is not as popular in campaigns now. But there is still plenty of "I'm more patriotic than you" BS in campaigns. Most recently in the Webb/Allan race in VA, via that idiotic flag-burning amendment. I am so sick of that transparently pandering con-job being trotted out every election year!! Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
I'm pretty sure OSC based the character on me actually. Not sure how he managed to get all that information though, must have been spying on me!
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Morbo: Murtha is still in Congress. I guess you mean Sen. Max Cleland(GA-D), who lost his seat in 2002. Oddly, even though I am a political junkie who lives in Georgia, I can't remember that campaign. I do remember being surprised he lost, he was an OK senator.
Ah yes! Max Cleland, that's who I meant. Doing things from memory doesn't always work out.
I just remember that race being particularly brutal, because Max Cleland was one of the few who from the outset of the war was vocally, LOUDLY critical of it, and was unabashedly called unAmerican in the campaign against him, despite the fact that he lost THREE LIMBS fighting in either Vietnam or Korea, I can't remember. What the hell more do you have to do for your country than that? Being alive is the only prereq you should need to speak your mind, but with the type of sacrifice he made, you'd think it'd give him extra credit, especially when it comes to matters of war.
It struck me as extra despicable.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:I support the idea of what America could be, and will criticize anything that gets in the way of that. If that means attacking America as it is, then so be it, doesn't make me less American, it makes me a supporter of how much greater we could be, it makes me a proponent of change.
posted
Am I an American? I suppose I am, but this adjective seem largely meaningless to me. I am seventeen, I have brown eyes that need glasses, I read poetry and history — these seem to define me far more than were I was born or were I live. In the end, we are devided by a thousand things— language, social class, education— that are far more meaningful to us than nationality.
quote: HIGH TREASON by Jose Emilio Pacheco
I do not love my country. Its abstract splendor is beyond my grasp. But (although it sounds bad) I would give my life for ten places in it, for certain people, seaports, pinewoods, fortresses, a run-down city, gray, grotesque, various figures from its history, mountains (and three or four rivers).
I don't completely agree though. Perhaps to you those things are more important than your specific nationality, but others might feel their nationality is one of the most important things about them.
I don't say that myself, but I understand their point and respect it.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Being American becomes a lot more important when you live or visit other countries, I think.
I love the ideals America stands for. I want us to consistently live up to those ideals. We do it by fits and starts now, and that has made us a great country, in my opinion. But there's nothing inevitable about it, and we could lose it at any time. Sometimes, in the course of fighting an enemy we have imagined for ourselves, we turn into that enemy, unawares. If allow ourselves to be driven by fear, paranoia, and hatred of the other, then we will become our worst nightmare. If, instead, we hold fast to our principles, a free society, the constitution, and to the bill of rights, then we will be secure no matter what happens in the world. You can't win with raw power and brutality. The victory in the long run always goes to the one who is objectively better, which (again in the long run) is the one who does what's right.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I generaly try to avoid drawing any attention to my nationality in when abroad. I have often been confused as Irish when in Britain and British when in Europe. I was very proud of being asked if I spoke English once in Greece.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
That reminds me of an American who worked for the UN in Kosovo. He spoke many languages. Someone in a small group on the street asked him what time it was. When he told them, in their enemies' language (which they had used as well, as a shibboleth or test), they killed him. Not because he was American, but because they thought he was an enemy. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Eduardo St. Elmo: Unfortunately America doesn't always do what's right...
I agree. But I like to think that, at least, in America, when a wrong is done, someone will care, and try to set things right. Contrast that with many countries where corruption is par for the course, just how things are done.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Those are all labels that are in some way acurate of me, but what do I see myself as? Without being too cheesy, I'd say a member of the human race. We're all in this together and I feel defining myself only as an American is a disservice to humanity. What would happen if the Isrealies stopped looking at the Palestiniens as "Palestiniens", but just as people who lived next door. And vica versa. I think so many problems in our history and present are just a result of this group seperation and exclusivity. My religion and your religion. My country and your country. This is the downside of national pride taken to an extreme. Similar to the fighting that proffessional sports inspires in its fans. 
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
