posted
When you're in a relationship with someone, do you personally have random conversations with strangers? Will you make new friends this way? Do you go out of your way to meet new people, and if so, how do you go about it?
posted
Yes. I still make random friends. The approach with girls is the same - say hello, something interesting, ask a question, be funny, get them talking about what they think about whatever we are collectively looking at.
With guys it was the same as with women + flirting, but now the flirting is pulled way back to almost nonexistant. "Friendly and interested" looks an awful lot like flirting, though, and I still like making friends. My solution is to tell Matt everything. He is merely amused by my guy stories, so I think that works.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I usually strike up random conversations with whomever is sitting next to me at the local cafe/bar. Good friends are often met this way, but I try to make sure that at some point in the first conversation with the person that I mention my significant other.
I then mention the possibility of a three-way and immediately backpedal due to the look of shocked outrage on the person's face. Kidding, of course. Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Yeah, I am friendly to people I meet if I don't get a bad vibe from them. I'm in a business (wedding photography) where my closing a sale often depends on very quickly convincing my potential clients and their families to see me as a very good friend, often within the span of about 15 minutes. I've actually ended up with quite a few *real* friendships that didn't end when the wedding was over, too!
...And I am married, to answer the relationship part of your question.
Are you having a debate with your significant other over random friendships?
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posted
Historically I've had a tendency not to do so, and being in a relationship has intensified the tendency. Since my marriage ended I've become more gregarious, and I suspect that that will continue to be the case when I'm in a relationship again.
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quote:Originally posted by Libbie: Are you having a debate with your significant other over random friendships?
Seems like a safe assumption.
Not at all.
I just made friends with a man who started talking to me at the bookstore last night, and I was pondering the whole nature of relationships and how some people seem to completely insulate themselves and so forth.
It's a matter of temperament, really. People who tend to be gregarious are going to be gregarious; those who are more introverted will continue to be introverted. As a general rule, of course--people do change over time.
And of course, a halmark of the abusive relationship is the abuser browbeating their partner into cutting ties to existing friends and family; I imagine that they'd also browbeat their partner into not making new friends.
posted
My beautiful Bride learned to flirt after we were married. She said it was a lot less stressful now she didn't have to try to impress folks. It has never bothered me and she enjoys it. She has also become quite good at it. I say go for it. Just remember who's taking you home after the dance.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I've been wondering about a correlary to this question. Since I'm a liberal arts student and most of my friends are enginneering students, I often don't know anyone in my classes. So I'll strike up random conversations with people just to have someone to talk to. I tend to be a lot more comfortable talking to guys than girls. Possibly because I'm in a relationship, so I don't particularly care if a guy doesn't like me.
I'm sort of worried, though. I don't want to give guys the impression I'm interested, or for them to view me as a potential girlfriend. Sometimes I can work a mention of my boyfriend into the conversation, but sometimes I can't.
So my question is for single guys: When you're talking to a girl randomly, do you think of her as a potential girlfriend? Or do you wait until you get to know her a little better for that?
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
My girlfriend is amazing at this. She makes friends everywhere she goes.
Some examples:
- Standing on line for Kingda Ka at Six Flags, she befriended the people in front of and behind us to the point that we spent the rest of the day in the park together.
- While in Colorado, we stopped at a visitor's center, and she ended up making friends with this woman while washing their hands in the restroom and we ended up talking about road conditions and the rest of their trip.
- While stopped on a highway because of an accident, she made friends with the trucker next to us and we all talked for the 30-40 minutes it took for the helicopter evac to finish up.
I know I can take her anywhere, and she will make friends with whoever we meet. I don't have to worry that she won't get along, or that she'll be a wallflower, or that I'll have to be with her every second when at an event with my friends.
It's awesome. And it's an ability I don't really have.
blackwolve, Try to mention the boyfriend as often as possible up front. When I was single and talking to a girl, I was always evaluating whether this was a person I wanted to see again, possibly in a dating setting. Getting the heads up about a boyfriend early on didn't deter me from conversation, but it didn't let me get too far down a garden path of potential dating scenarios.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: blackwolve, Try to mention the boyfriend as often as possible up front.
See, I think a lot of guys perceive that as "Go away and leave me alone, you creepazoid." I do work my boyfriend into the conversation, but not right off the bat, and I don't try to mention him in every other sentence.
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: blackwolve, Try to mention the boyfriend as often as possible up front.
See, I think a lot of guys perceive that as "Go away and leave me alone, you creepazoid." I do work my boyfriend into the conversation, but not right off the bat, and I don't try to mention him in every other sentence.
-pH
I don't see a single mention of a boyfriend as meaning that, and if they work in the context of the conversation I don't view repeated mentions of a partner as meaning that. If I were talking to someone and she were to repeatedly bring up her partner in ways that didn't quite fit in the context of the discussion, though, I would probably assume that she was misreading my talking as hitting on her, and would disengage from the conversation.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I think a lot of the weight of the issue comes from nonverbal communication as well, and that's hard both to assess over the internet and discuss in a sensible way remotely. Still, mentioning the boyfriend's name in one way, with a particular intonation, body stance, rhythm to the voice, and pauses, can be a very different message than doing it in a different way.
I think this can come up as a problem in relationships when partners are discussing appropriateness of interactions and the content of the discussion is all on the verbal interaction. Communication is much more sophisticated than that, and even in a relationship where both parties are honestly striving to understand each other, make his or her own needs known, and be respectful and thoughtful partners, they can still be carrying on two different conversations -- and not understand why the other doesn't seem to understand.
It's one of the great things about being in a longterm, committed relationship with someone else who is actively working for the health of the relationship with you. Each of you can become creative and skilled at understanding the other person's communication styles and verbal/nonverbal cues, and you learn one another's language. So, when something emotionally loaded like "I'm uncomfortable about the way you interacted with so-and-so"/"Oh really? I didn't say anything inappropriate!"/and-so-on comes up, I think you have a better chance at getting to the heart of the matter and figuring it out together.
Tough stuff. Worthwhile, but it's always like being randomly abraded with sandpaper to be around other people. Always happens at some point, no matter how much love there is. (And the alternative may well be to become brittle, flinty, and shatter under your own ponderous weight.)
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posted
As I was reading what you wrote I was mentally preparing to post "And what CT says". You hit it spot on, I think.
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posted
Man, unclear writing. What I meant to say was "As often as possible, try to mention your boyfriend up front" - meaning, mention him up front whenever possible, I guess.
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Man, unclear writing. What I meant to say was "As often as possible, try to mention your boyfriend up front" - meaning, mention him up front whenever possible, I guess.
"Whenever possible" is probably better phrasing.
My girlfriend sometimes writes similarly unclearly, FlyingCow.[/stop hitting on me, Freakshow]
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
*laugh* I have definitely struck up conversations with guys when I'm just trying to be friendly and they have pointedly brought up their girlfriends in completely unrelated contexts.
It was kind of annoying. I always wanted to say that I wouldn't dream of dating them in the first place, so not to worry.
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posted
I've actually thought of saying something similar at times, kat, but I've always resisted the impulse.
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posted
But on the other hand, if you don't bring up the existence of the SO, then other unhappiness can result.
Sandpaper, I tell you. Like rough rocks rubbing up against each other in a small sack. It's amazing there aren't more stabbings in the world when you think about it.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
See, I've never thought about specifically bringing up my girlfriend when talking to women - mainly because I don't assume anyone would be hitting on me. Of course, I mention her all the time anyway.
If I got the feeling someone was hitting on me, I'd make a point of mentioning her (again, if I already had).
Does it work in reverse, though? When single women talk to a random guy, are they thinking potential boyfriend? And should guys try to throw the gf in there?
Edit: to at Noemon.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Personally, if the guy throws the girlfriend thing in right off the bat, like kat, I take offense. Like, uh, I'm not going to jump your bones, buddy.
posted
It might be an age thing, too. I know when I was in college, I wanted the boyfriend flag to be thrown in as soon as possible. I mean, I wanted girls to wear tags saying they were single or taken, for crying out loud.
When I was single last year, I didn't really think about it that much. Either a girl was single or she wasn't, and if she was single things would lead to a relationship or they wouldn't. I wasn't so concerned anymore.
Is that the same in anyone else's experience?
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I HATED how hard it was to tell if a girl was available. Sure its nice talking to girls even those who are married, but it sucks to have a long conversation and then build up the courage to ask if you could perhaps see them again and THEN you get the boyfriend schtick!
But there is nothing wrong with throwing in the boyfriend/girlfriend flag, just do it in a tactful way. Its not hard to mention you have one in just about any context.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I consider a single discreet mention of a significant other (especially if there are no obviously signifying rings being worn) in an initial conversation to be at best a simple courtesy, at worst just a matter of indifference. It could, after all, not be directed at me.
Additionally, this may be a gentleman who is relentlessly pursued in his life for reasons unknown to me (has written fabulous novels that attract groupies, is known by many in the area to be magnificently endowed in some way, what have you) and so -- despite the fact that he does not shake my peaches -- he may well be Much Sought After in general. In which case, really, I think a discreet mention is, well, discreet.
There are many, many women attracted by sets of characteristics which have no appeal to me whatsoever. Surely this is the case for most of us, no?
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I HATED how hard it was to tell if a girl was available. Sure its nice talking to girls even those who are married, but it sucks to have a long conversation and then build up the courage to ask if you could perhaps see them again and THEN you get the boyfriend schtick!
Another reason I wait a little while to mention my boyfriend...I probably DO want to see the person again because I want to be friends and see movies and hang out or something. That, and it always disappoints me when I've met someone that I think is a cool, interesting person, and as soon as he finds out I have a boyfriend, he has to go iron his socks and forgot he left the toaster on fire.
quote:That, and it always disappoints me when I've met someone that I think is a cool, interesting person, and as soon as he finds out I have a boyfriend, he has to go iron his socks and forgot he left the toaster on fire.
pH, I so agree with you on this. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to end up dating a guy who doggedly pursued me *despite* knowing I had a boyfriend. I did that once and it turned out really badly.
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posted
blacwolve, when you do mention your boyfriend do you say that he is 8 feet tall, a martial arts genius, and makes scary weapons in the summer?
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
See, that's why it's such a precise ballet to be dancing...
You have to drop the fact pretty early, because otherwise one or the other of you can get into trouble or at least by hurt by false pretenses. However, you probably want to wait a while so you can at least establish some basic friendly connection (or lack therof) before shutting that down.
Hopefully the kind of people you'd want to be friends with aren't going to give up right off the bat if they hear you're taken (give up with the general friend relationship possibilities) but even if they do it's not necessarily a sign of them being a bad person or anything.
Example: By senior year my best friend probably knew by name a thousand or so people (maybe more) at school. to the extent that a 3:00 am trip to the off-campus wallmart would inevitably have him catching up with at least 1-2 people he knew. As a result of this he mostly gave up for a while on meeting new people cause of the tiresome aspect of it.
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posted
What I don't like is to spend 30 minutes to an hour talking to a girl, getting all kinds of signals (both verbal and non) that she's interested in me, then asking her out or for her phone number and she has a boyfriend. I'm sure it's a great ego boost to have guys be interested in you, and they probably consider it harmless, but I think it's a little disingenuous.
I guess I shouldn't say I don't like it, because if I spend that much time talking to someone I really did probably enjoy the conversation. I just feel misled. And often I'm not interested with trying to establish a friendship with someone who's in a relationship, especially in the case where there's a mutual attraction between us. I just feel like it's putting myself in a bad situation.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
There's a guy at work that was flirting with me. I interacted with him because of work situations, but they weren't social conversations. I could tell he liked me, but I'm not sure what I was supposed to do about that.
Last week he came to install something on my work computer while I was out at a meeting. I have a picture of me and Matt up on my desk. This week he can barely talk to me and keeps mentioning his ex-girlfriend. Maybe I'm dreaming, but I think those three sentences are related.
I'm not sure what I could have done differently. I'm definitely not going to mention Matt during a business meeting, and I never saw this guy outside of one. I'm sorry if he's mad, but that's not my fault.
Or it's possible I dreamed up the entire thing. I don't think so, though.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: I guess I shouldn't say I don't like it, because if I spend that much time talking to someone I really did probably enjoy the conversation. I just feel misled. And often I'm not interested with trying to establish a friendship with someone who's in a relationship, especially in the case where there's a mutual attraction between us. I just feel like it's putting myself in a bad situation.
You see, that's the kind of attitude that makes me sad. Or makes me want to smack you and say, "Not all girls are going to jump your bones, you know." Plus, it makes me feel like...I don't know, that you think there's no point in befriending a girl if there's no chance of dating, which makes me even more sad. Then of course, saying that it's a bad situation, which reminds me of the time I hung out with one of my exes, and he wouldn't go sit on the couch of the coffee shop with me because "the atmosphere was too romantic" and he didn't want to put himself in a bad situation. Which bothered me because it made me think that on some level, he believed that I would potentially cheat on my boyfriend with him. Just sayin'.
And hey, with my staggering, mind-blowing hotness, how are we ever going to be drinking buddies?
posted
But pH, if a guy is actively looking for a girlfriend, or even just a date, doesn't he deserve to know that you're not available in that context? Look at JT's first paragraph:
quote:. . .to spend 30 minutes to an hour talking to a girl, getting all kinds of signals (both verbal and non) that she's interested in me, then asking her out or for her phone number and she has a boyfriend. . .
30 minutes to an hour chatting in a non-work environment is a long time for someone to not mention they have a boyfriend, and I think it's perfectly reasonable for a guy to feel misled in that situation. If this is at a bar, and the guy's reason for being there is to meet potential dates, the girl just wasted a lot of his time. Now maybe he was having enough fun talking with her that even if she had mentioned the boyfriend 10 minutes in he would have chosen to stay and continue the conversation, but he should get to make that decision himself, with the knowledge that she's not available. If someone's actively flirting (sending verbal and non signals) they need to do it from a position of honesty.
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posted
Which I find a good thing to know up front, myself. I mean, I don't find my marriage to be an issue for developing a platonic friendship, but if someone else does, then I want to know that about them. Plus, it's their right to make that determination for themselves (even if I wouldn't make the same choice).
--
Edited to add: And I'm not saying that people who don't make the SO reference are somehow lying in wait trying to trap potential friends and deny their agency to make their own choices. That would be an overstatement, to say the least. But I do think the SO reference approach has merit, and I don't think it necessarily is about anything more insulting than courtesy.
There is room for many different approaches to others. I prefer those that maximize everyone's agency (as I see it). That's one way.
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posted
I'm not saying I don't like to know that about someone...but it still makes me sad. I like to pretend that people want to be friends with me because I'm so amazingly cool, not based on the possibility of getting in my pants.
posted
Edited to add: Looks like we are approaching a similiar concern, pH, but from different sides. You have my sympathies. Below is how I've addressed it, but I hope you find a way that works well for you, too. If you do, share it -- I think it's a fairly common problem for women.
----
In thinking more about how this works for me, I guess I also am deliberately underscoring my own sense of self-worth when I mention my SO (briefly). It's a way of saying to myself, "I am an interesting and fascinating person in my own right, regardless of whether I am romantically available." If someone else disagrees, well, then so be it. Again, it's good to know up front (for me).
Of course, such statements to oneself have different meanings from person to person. I suspect that in my case, my self-esteem was pretty low for so long in high school (poor, awkward, clueless, Did Not Fit In) that I craved male attention for validation, and I would seek it out in just about every interaction. I even remember wearing sunglasses in part so that I could check and see if I were being watched by men I walked past, but without giving that neediness away with my eyes.
You can see how, for me, it means even more when I reaffirm to myself that I have much more to offer than my body. But even though it is peculiar to a certain context for me, I think the approach in general has many other merits as well.
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posted
I've made the decision before when I was strongly attracted to someone to only see them in group situations, because I didn't want to have to deal with the temptation, whether it was because I was in a relationship or they were. I don't fault anyone else for doing the same. And I think you're doing you ex a disservice, by the way, by thinking he believed you would potentially cheat with him. He might have just meant that that situation was not comfortable for him to be in with someone he used to be involved with.
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posted
No, there were a few other comments during the night. At one point, he actually SAID, "I don't know about you, but when I'M with someone...there's no cheating."
I didn't really know what to say to that, since I found it to be such an outrageous assumption.
posted
When in college, I was looking for relationships, plain and simple. When I talked to a girl on a bus, or in a coffee shop, or after a class, or in the student center, or wherever, I was trying to strike up a conversation that might lead to a date. That was my focus at the time. In fact, when I wanted to know the time or needed directions I waited until I saw a girl I was attracted to before asking - it was as good a way of making contact as any, and who knows where it might lead?
In college, I had a lot of female friends, and I was interested in being "more than friends" with a good many of these should the opportunity have presented it self (which it did, on occassion). In social settings meeting new people, though, I would only try to meet new girls who I was attracted to - and as soon as I found out they had a boyfriend, I tried to move on to someone who didn't. Nothing was worse than meeting five girls in a night, and all of them being taken - it was a lot of effort, without so much as a single dating lead.
After college, things were a lot different.
After college, I talked with people I found interesting, not people I just found attractive. I placed a higher value on intelligent discussion and sense of humor than I did on whether or not the person was "dating material." The conversation itself became the goal, not the potential relationship after the conversation.
After college, I wasn't expecting or looking for anything as often. If I got along well with a girl, and she happened to be single, we might go out on a date to see how that dynamic would work. Sometimes this led to more dates, other times we decided it wasn't meant to be and kept it at friends.
I don't know if that's maturity, or just my slow mosey downhill from my sexual peak. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by pH: No, there were a few other comments during the night. At one point, he actually SAID, "I don't know about you, but when I'M with someone...there's no cheating."
I didn't really know what to say to that, since I found it to be such an outrageous assumption.
-pH
What about surprised and authentic laughter, followed by "oh, I don't think you have to worry about that"?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Yes, but ElJay, he also said that he isn't interested in friendships with girls in relationships.
Um, no, I didn't. I chose my words carefully, and those words were:
quote:And often I'm not interested with trying to establish a friendship with someone who's in a relationship, especially in the case where there's a mutual attraction between us. I just feel like it's putting myself in a bad situation.
Hrm. Maybe I should have chosen even more carefully. That's not as clear as I intended it to be.
I don't have any problem hanging out or being friends with girls who are in relationships, but when there's an attraction I prefer not to put the temptation on either person. Now, no matter how much the other person may say they don't need to remove the temptation, I have a long and distinguished history of doing stupid things with girls. So I find it prudent to take certain precautions. Save me from myself, so to speak.
Caveat: For whatever reason, I feel more comfortable in male/female friendships that were established prior to the romantic entanglements of either friend. I feel like pre-existing friendships are grandfathered in and are therefore exempt from jealous partners.
quote:Or makes me want to smack you and say, "Not all girls are going to jump your bones, you know." Plus, it makes me feel like...I don't know, that you think there's no point in befriending a girl if there's no chance of dating, which makes me even more sad.
It's not an ego thing. I don't think every girl who's friendly towards me wants to jump my bones. And, as I said, it's not that platonic friendships are pointless. It's just exercising caution, out of respect for someone's relationship.
As for how you and I can(could) hang out, it's because I'm not romantically interested in you at all. Which isn't meant to be any sort of insult, because I like you. But I'd feel safe hanging out with you, because the temptation isn't there. I can't know what other people will do, only what they say they will do. Those two aren't always the same thing.
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posted
I didn't really mean it as an attack on you, JT. I still love ya. I just feel like a lot of times, people with policies like yours end up hurting my feelings a whole bunch. Because I don't like having conversations with someone who's interesting only to find out later that he doesn't want to be friends.
Personally, I think it's easier to make friends while in a relationship. I'm not exactly sure why. I'm not a boyfriend-hunter, but I guess just knowing that that particular part of my life is taken care of makes me feel much less pressure.
quote:Originally posted by pH: Because I don't like having conversations with someone who's interesting only to find out later that he doesn't want to be friends.
That's exactly why I make the SO reference -- then I know, up front, what they are interested in. If it's not me as a friend, then it becomes pretty clear very fast.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by pH: Because I don't like having conversations with someone who's interesting only to find out later that he doesn't want to be friends.
That's exactly why I make the SO reference -- then I know, up front, what they are interested in. If it's not me as a friend, then it becomes pretty clear very fast.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about it.
My wife told me there is a guy at work that knows she is married and whenever he walks by he runs his finger up her arm. He made her an origami flower and drew an anime style picture for her. She kept saying, "But he knows I am married so he is just being nice." Um...right...because marriage ALWAYS prevents the opposite sex from getting their groove on. She thought he was just being overly friendly, I had to explain to her that by not negatively reacting to such over the top actions she was basically saying, "Keep going, I'm interested." Eventually she got it and made sure he saw he throw his origami flower in the trash. For some reason he does not come to her whenever he "Needs to know what time it is."
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote: Personally, I think it's easier to make friends while in a relationship. I'm not exactly sure why. I'm not a boyfriend-hunter, but I guess just knowing that that particular part of my life is taken care of makes me feel much less pressure.
Hmm, that's exactly the reason I have no problems making friends/being friendly with guys, except from the opposite side (besides the fact that I just plain get along with them better for reasons of movie/book/music/food taste, lifestyle, conversation style, and other interests). By "opposite side of the reason" I mean that I (apparently) come off as a flaming lesbian. I've also heard as as nice as a Radar Scrambler to as blunt as an Ice Queen. Anyway, my point is somehow, by the way I act there is no awkwardness when other people, from first glance, don't see you as a romantic prospect. It even makes my friendships better because I've had many discussions about friends' attractions towards me, and it's done nothing but enhance friendships (except in the two cases where it went farther. Oops). I treasure that openness and I wonder if I would lose it with new friends if I ever went into Looking For Love mode.
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