I'm not saying people wouldn't still have been hurt, but the part about kids being flung around the bus while it fell...basically pummelled to death...could have been avoided.
So, why, why, why don't scholl buses have seatbelts?!?!?!?!?!!?!?
Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Because then they couldn't overload by squeezing tighter. The theory is that there are 2 kids per seat, but we all know it gets tighter than that quite often, and they aren't allowed to have kids on the floor.
Posts: 1281 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Considering the bus fell 30 feet with 43 students and having only 2 deaths...well, you would expect a lot more death with a car full of passengers with no seatbelt falling off the overpass.
I have never read the study, but I have heard multiple times that buses are designed to be safe--even without seatbelts.
I once called in a local radio station about a related issue. They were debating about a new law where cops give tickets if you don't where seatbelts. I called in and asked if that meant the cops were going to start stopping school buses.
The host, who is usually polite and listens to both sides (and was against cops giving tickets), brushed me off because of all the studies and research that goes in to make and show that school buses the safe exception.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Most busses I've been on do have seat-belts. They are simply not used. They are pushed down into the seat cracks, generally.
The issues, as far as I can tell, are two-fold:
1) In the case of a fire, MANY MANY children may die if they were forced to wear seat-belts. No driver could ever be expected to evacuate 50+ children in a panic when they are all strapped to their seats.
2) A driver would never be able to enforce that every student has their seat-belt on. It is already a tall order to keep so many kids in their seats, getting them all buckled would be very difficult, if not impossible.
As far as I am concerned, the risk of fire is far greater than the risk of tumbling down a cliff. I'd imagine busses are far safer for NOT enforcing seat-belt rules.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Xavier: Most busses I've been on do have seat-belts. They are simply not used. They are pushed down into the seat cracks, generally.
The issues, as far as I can tell, are two-fold:
1) In the case of a fire, MANY MANY children may die if they were forced to wear seat-belts. No driver could ever be expected to evacuate 50+ children in a panic when they are all strapped to their seats.
2) A driver would never be able to enforce that every student has their seat-belt on. It is already a tall order to keep so many kids in their seats, getting them all buckled would be very difficult, if not impossible.
As far as I am concerned, the risk of fire is far greater than the risk of tumbling down a cliff.
This pretty much sums up my feelings on seatbelts on school buses. Just wasn't sure how to say it.
Minibuses in Hong Kong had seatbelts, but double decker ones did not.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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My mom drove a bus for a decade and was certified to train other drivers. From what I remember the routes are based on 3 kids per seat not 2.
Hmm, here's a quote.
quote:In practice, school buses transport students of various sizes, typically from preschoolers to 12th graders. While a 39-inch seat may safely accommodate three preschoolers and/or primary school-aged children, it may not safely accommodate the same number of older children. Since the size of growing children varies, the number of pupils that can safely occupy a school bus seat also changes.
I think for the most part the school systems go for the cheap route and cram all 72(+) into a bus without taking any of these considerations.
I think seat belts would do more harm than good really.
Here's one reason:
quote:Seat belts wouldn't necessarily make buses safer. On the contrary, some believe they would increase the number of serious injuries. Shoulder harnesses aren't practical in buses as currently designed, and lap belts are likely to cause more head and abdominal injuries because in a collision the wearer is jerked forward from the waist.
quote:Information from all types of school bus collisions demonstrates that the current school bus design provides a high level of protection to occupants and that seat belts may actually adversely affect the safety of children on school buses (Transport Canada). Instead of requiring seat belts, school buses are designed and constructed differently from passenger cars. School buses protect passengers through "compartmentalization", a design that includes:
* Seats with high backs; * Seats filled with energy-absorbing material; * Seats placed close together to form compartments; * Strong seat anchorages.
Studies have shown that adding seat belts to the current seating configuration of a school bus can increase the chance of head and neck injuries. For a seat belt to be effective, it must be worn correctly, snug and on the upper thighs. Because school vehicles carry passengers from the very young to high school students, if seat belts were used, they would need to be readjusted and their use monitored. A seat belt not worn correctly may cause serious injuries.
There's also the possibility of kids choking each other with seat belts. For instance the driver's seat is a shoulder harness in almost all busses I've been on and I know for a fact that it's within reach of the first seat passenger.
Imagine 50 kids with the potential to mess with the kid in front of them. Not really an issue in a minivan with 2-6 kids but I'm sure it would happen frequently in a bus with over 50 others.
I'm personally not fond of just a lap belt and other than the bus rolling over I think it would just cause more problems.
Posts: 96 | Registered: Sep 2006
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When I was in school, many of the buses had seatbelts - but we, of course, didn't use them. I suspect that is the reason most school buses do not have seltbelts. There's really not much point if it can't be enforced.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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This issue can also be boiled down to money.
Who's going to pay to retrofit the thousands and thousands of school buses? The taxpayers? Surely you jest that the bus companies would pay for it.
Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Our bus driver in my last year of Junior High tried to tell us we HAD to sit three per seat. When we pointed out it was way too tight, she told us that "It was designed to fit three, so it must." That's when we asked her to come sit in between two 150 pounds football players. She stopped nagging us then.
Posts: 1591 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I'm not sure that "fire risk" really enters into the decision to not put belts on school buses. There are far more crashes involving school buses than there are fires, especially with children present. So, if there was a safety advantage to having the belts, I believe they would be justified.
The answer is, however, that most school-bus related deaths of children are for kids outside the bus -- crossing the street, standing at the curb, that sort of thing. The number of deaths ON school buses is very small and has always been small.
Now, some communities decide for various reasons that any cost is worth the life of even one person, they decide that putting belts on buses would send a more consistent message to children to ALWAYS buckle up. But the reality of the situation is that belts aren't going to save a lot of lives ON the school bus.
I don't know about actually endangering lives, but there's at least some reason to consider that because the belts that are most likely to be installed would be lap-belts only. Lap belts are best at stopping ejections. They keep your carcass inside the vehicle. They don't stop you from getting whiplash -- in fact they contribute to it. So, yeah, maybe belts on schoolbuses would be bad.
I haven't seen any data on that.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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Even in buses that had seatbelts, I've never worn them. I don't think it's realistic to think kids are going to get on the bus and buckle up, bus drivers have enough trouble keeping them from moving around as it is.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Another teen died, so the total in the accident is up to three. The latest story makes it sound like some sort of prank gone wrong (another teen from the HS driving too close to the bus, possibly colliding with it), which sadly isn't all that shocking.
I should have paid closer attention to the story the first time I read this thread, one of my cousins is a senior in Huntsville, AL (but attends Grissom HS, and not Lee).
Posts: 1368 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I remember sitting four a seat when I was in high school. A group of my friends shared a seat and would take turns sitting on laps and sitting on our backpacks in the aisle.
When I was in elementary, a bus I was on was hit by a car. My head took a pretty nasty bounce off the window and I had to be carried off. I was conscious but seriously disorientated.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I only ever road on busses in high school on marching band trips. They didn't have seat belts, but I doubt a lot of kids would have worn them anyway after a long busride and a grueling day of marching.
I remember a video not too long ago where a school bust was knocked on its side, and all the kids in the bus were flung to one side in a giant heap of toddlers. Scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Ah, Found it on youtube. Seriously I can't believe no one died in this accident. I don't know what would have happened if they had all been wearing seatbelts, but a video like that makes you wonder.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tstorm: This issue can also be boiled down to money.
Who's going to pay to retrofit the thousands and thousands of school buses? The taxpayers? Surely you jest that the bus companies would pay for it.
It could very well be that adding seatbelts would reduce the safetoy of the busses. This is not out of the realm of possibility either- and in fact it has been cited as a reason several times in this thread, and it was the justification I was given when I led bus trips for a summer camp.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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We always had to practice "bracing" before we went on field trips-- before the bus left, we had to demonstrate that we knew how to tuck our head and hold on to the seat in front of us, to minimize "tumbling" if we went off a cliff (always a possibility when you're driving the Angeles Crest, as we sometimes were-- sharp curves, steep roads, no guardrails on many parts of it.) District policy. But we always sat two to a bus seat, and were chewed out if we tried to sit three.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Shanna: My head took a pretty nasty bounce off the window and I had to be carried off. I was conscious but seriously disorientated.
*saddened* And there were long-term effects, as you still cannot spell "disoriented" correctly.
posted
It is so in case something happens like it going off a bridge, everyone could get out easily. You don't want a bunch of kids getting trapped in a bus because they can't undo they cheap seat belts.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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