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For anyone who read this book: How much am I missing out if I read this never having read the Iliad?
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Is it a retelling of the Iliad? I mean, in the same way that Homecoming was a retelling of the Book of Mormon?
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well I'm catching up on The Iliad anyway. do I need to read the Odyssey to appreciate "Olympos"?
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I've never read the Iliad, but I read all the books in the Heroes in Hell series, and that's got to cover a lot of it. Oh, and I watched a Helen of Troy movie on TV. Does that count? And Marion Zimmer Bradley's Firebrand.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Well, get thee to a library! And check out The Children's Homer, it's a classic and very easy to breeze through; you can read more literal translations later, but it will give you the basic story.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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If you haven't read Homer you're missing quite a lot. I expect that it's still an enjoyable read, but there will be whole layers to the story that won't resonate with you the way they did if you were to have read The Iliad. I haven't read Proust, and I suspect that there are layers to the story that I'm not aware of as a result.
In any case, the Iliad is an interersting read. Try to get your hands on a non-literal translation (ie not Lattimore's. Don't get me wrong--Lattimore's work is of incredible quality, and if you want a literal translation of Homer he's hands-down who you want to read.* He's just not the translator whose work I'd suggest for someone's first exposure to the text) written with the contemporary reader in mind. My advice would be to go to a bookstore or library, pull every translation off the shelf, read the first page of each one, and see which one has language that you respond to best. It's interesting to see the differences
*compare, for example, the opening lines in Lattimore's translation:
quote:Sing, goddess, the anger of Peleus' son Achilleus and it's devastation, which put pains thousandfold upon the Achaians hurled in their multitudes to the house of Hades strong souls of heroes, but gave their bodies to be the delicate feasting of dogs, of all birds, and the will of Zeus was accomplished since that time when first there stood in division of conflict Atreus' son the lord of men and brilliant Achilleus
with those of Fitzterald:
quote:Anger be your song, immortal one Akhilleus' anger, doomed and ruinous that caused the Akhaians loss on bitter loss and crowded brave souls into the undergloom, leaving so many dead men--carrion for dogs and birds; and the will of Zeus was done Begin it when the two men first contending broke with one another- the Lord Marshal Agamemnon, Atreus' son, and Prince Akhilleus
with those of Lombardo:
quote:Sing, Goddess, Achilles' rage Balck and murderous, that cost the Greeks Incalculable pain, pitched countless souls Of heroes into Hades' dark And left their bodies to rot as feasts For dogs and birds, as Zeus' will was done. Begin with the clash between Agamemnon-- The Greek warlord--and godlike Achilles
There are huge differences there, obviously. Of those three, Lombardo is my favorite for just sitting and reading, although I love, absolutely love Fitzgerald's "undergloom".
There are plenty of other translations to choose from, of course, but these are three of my favorites.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Oh, and as an example of the way you'll be missing out on stuff in the book if you haven't read the Iliad, compare those three passages above with the opening paragraphs of Simmon's book (I think that I'm quoting a small enough snippet here that it would fall under fair use. If I'm wrong, Moose, just let me know and I'll link instead):
quote:Rage.
Sing, O Muse, of the rage of Achilles, of Peleus' son, murderous, man-killer, fated to die, sing of the rage that cost the Achaeans so many good men and sent so many vital, hearty souls down to the dreary House of Death. And while you're at it, O Muse, sing of the rage of the gods themselves, so petulant and so powerful here on their new Olympos, and of the rage of the post-humans, dead and gone though they might be, and of the rage of those few true humans left, self-absorbed and useless though they may have become. While you are singing, O Muse, sing also of the rage of those thoughtful, sentient, serious but not-so-close-to-human beings out there dreaming under the ice of Europa, dying in the sulfur-ash of Io, and being born in the cold folds of Ganymede.
Oh, and sing of me, O Muse, poor born-again-against-his-will Hockenberry -- poor dead Thomas Hockenberry, Ph.D., Hockenbush to his friends, to friends long since turned to dust on a world long since left behind. Sing of my rage, yes, of my rage, O Muse, small and insignificant though that rage may be when measured against the anger of the immortal gods, or when compared to the wrath of the god-killer, Achilles.
On second thought, O Muse, sing of nothing to me. I know you. I have been bound and servant to you, O Muse, you incomparable bitch. And I do not trust you, O Muse. Not one little bit.
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Fagles' has never seemed all that inspired of a translation, to me, but that's a pretty subjective thing. I maintain that it's probably best to look at a couple and pick the one that you most respond to.
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I'm a Fitzgerald partisan, myself. His were the translations of the Iliad and Odyssey that we read in my college world lit class, and I loved them. Although I have to say, I like the Odyssey a lot more than the Iliad.
Had an ongoing dispute with my instructor, though. She was convinced that Odysseus was a terrible leader, while I have always maintained that he was a good leader with terrible followers. Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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I'll agree about Fagles. I've never personally enjoyed it, but it is rather more accessible than Lattimore.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Sure, almost anything is more accessible than Lattimore, simply because his focus is staying true to the Greek rather than rendering well formed English. He's an invaluable aid if you're working on a translation, and are puzzled by something, and I'd say that any serious student of Homer would do well to read both his Iliad and his Odyssey, but for the casual reader I probably wouldn't recommend him.
Littlemissattitude, Fitzgerald's translation is great, no doubt about it. I'm partial to Lombardo, myself, but there is a reason that Fitzgerald's Odyssey was considered, when I was in school, the definitive translation.
There are a number of good translations out there, though.
I used to prefer the Odyssey to the Iliad, but I don't know that I do anymore. Achilles is such a petulant toad that it's easy to be put off by him, but nonetheless the Iliad has a lot to offer.
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I have not read the Iliad or the Odyssey. But now that I have read Ilium and Olympos (both are fabulous books), I intend to do so. I expect that having read Ilium and Olympos, I will get alot more out of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
Posts: 195 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by starLisa: Is it a retelling of the Iliad? I mean, in the same way that Homecoming was a retelling of the Book of Mormon?
No. Ilium is not at all a retelling of the Iliad. Rather, the Iliad essentially gets re-enacted in the far future, while a resurrected 20th century scholar is reluctantly enlisted by the gods to observe and look for disparities between the reenactment and the actual poem. And then lots of other things happen. Also, in another contemporaneous story line, there are characters who have the same names as, and are similar to, characters from Shakespeare's The Tempest. Several complicated story lines happen at the same time - kind of. It's very hard to explain - you just have to read it for yourself.
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quote:Originally posted by Carrie: A lot, though it's not impossible to follow Ilium not having read the Iliad. It would also be a good idea to brush up on The Tempest, really.
If you want a modern translation that's not for kids, read Fagles. Otherwise read Lattimore.
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I never got around to reading the Illiad. I read the Odyssey in high school, and didn't particularly care for it. Would reading the illiad be worth it,or am I likely to have a similar experience.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Hard to say with any certainty. Why did you dislike the Odyssey? How long ago was it that you read it?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I read the Iliad back in college and was pretty bored by it. It's like the Dragon Ball Z of ancient Greek literature -- lots of (pretty gory) fighting with a plot that doesn't make much sense except to get everyone to fight.
There's some nice poetic bits here and there, and occasional bits when there's some actual characterization going on, as when Achilles mourns his friend's death, or when the king and queen of Troy mourn their son's death. But as fiction, it's not a great read; it's interesting more for what it has to say about ancient Greek society than as fiction for its own sake. (So if you do read it, try to find an annotated copy.)
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I love the epithet 'fleet-footed mankiller', and from the number of times it gets used, Simmons must like it too. Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Yeah, that's a great epithet. Who wants to be "of the great war cry" or "breaker of horses" when you can be "fleet-footed mankiller"?
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