posted
Hans Christian Anderson...he was brilliant, but he also wrote some of the darkest, most depressing fairy tales of all time.
That said, I'm glad to see Disney finally managed to do a fairly faithful adaptation of one. Gives me hope in case Lasseter ever revives The Snow Queen project.
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quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: As far as I know, that's pretty much the way life was for many little girls at the time. Still is that way for a lot of them.
Only without the magical holiday vision-inducing matchsticks. Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Little Match Girl is Hans Christian Anderson?
I first encountered a "little match girl" in a video game...a level 1 enemy, but she would instant kill you no matter how strong you got if you attacked her.
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quote: Only without the magical holiday vision-inducing matchsticks.
This video actually touches on why I think a belief that we only have one life to live is, in some cases, a much stronger way to promote moral feelings in people.
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quote: Gives me hope in case Lasseter ever revives The Snow Queen project.
Puffy! That's my favorite fairy tale ever! Well, that and the Grimm Brothers' Dancing Shoes. But still, that is an amazing story. They definitely need to redo it.
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quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: This video actually touches on why I think a belief that we only have one life to live is, in some cases, a much stronger way to promote moral feelings in people.
In some people, perhaps. If I thought this life was all there was, and that my deceased loved ones were gone forever, then I would lose all hope, and all desire to try to do the right thing.
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quote:Originally posted by Evie3217: Puffy! That's my favorite fairy tale ever! Well, that and the Grimm Brothers' Dancing Shoes. But still, that is an amazing story. They definitely need to redo it.
It's been kicking around as a possible film at Disney for years upon years...the last version (unfortunately) was and Eisner-induced "Shrek" clone than thankfully got killed.
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quote: In some people, perhaps. If I thought this life was all there was, and that my deceased loved ones were gone forever, then I would lose all hope, and all desire to try to do the right thing.
*nod* I respect that.
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posted
I don't think it is cowardice, but I also am not convinced it is true. Human beings have a remarkable way of clinging stubbornly to life.
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posted
Of course it's cowardice! Refusing to live and do the right thing merely because you won't see someone again? I hope I never inspire any such emotion in my loved ones; if I do, I'll refuse to rise from my grave and haunt them, just for sheer spite.
I agree with you about the clinging to life, though; which makes PT's statement self-deceptive as well as cowardly.
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I don't think it is cowardice. Cowardice is shirking from something when there is reason to stand firm. The whole point of rolling over and dying when there is no chance of seeing family again is there would be, for that person, no reason to stand firm.
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posted
But stories like The Little Match Girl make it seem okay to not give a poor beggar child anything to live on, much less shelter because, after all, it would be better for them if they did die. After all, if someone had given her a penny or bought one of her matches, her suffering would have continued, but because she was allowed to freeze to death, she got the best of all, didn't she?
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I didn't read the story that way at all - that it was okay to let the girl suffer. That she was comforted does not mean it is better that she needed to be comforted.
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Well, more to the point, I think many religions look at not doing good stuff like, say, helping little match girls as a 'sin'.
Of course, if it was the little match girl serial killer, all bets are off and its perfectly o.k. to crack the whip a little.
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posted
*Spoiler in case you didn't watch the clip.
I really did not get the impression that she had lost the will to live. She struck one of the matches in the desperation to get warm, and in her hungered exhausted state she saw a vision in the flames. Not wanting the vision to fade she struck matches until they all ran out. The fact she grabbed the last 3 and struck them all at once demonstrates how determined she was to remain in her vision. If you ever die of hypothermia its often after you have fallen asleep as your body just shuts down. You don't typically think, "If I fall asleep Ill die" you just don't care anymore.
What recourse did the girl have?
I don't think the message is, "Leave the poor and just let them die." I don't think the story is supposed to convey a message at all actually. To me the story simply shares with us the plight of a little girl who has lost everything. We empathize with the girl, and share her anguish. The little girl got what she wanted, whether that was the best choice is not what I think the story is trying to address.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I don't think it is cowardice. Cowardice is shirking from something when there is reason to stand firm. The whole point of rolling over and dying when there is no chance of seeing family again is there would be, for that person, no reason to stand firm.
'Cowardice' might not be the word I'm looking for, but I have zero respect for people who cannot find an internal reason to live. Only children are completely dependent on others for all their mental resources.
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: 'Cowardice' might not be the word I'm looking for, but I have zero respect for people who cannot find an internal reason to live.
And I am approaching zero respect for you.
You claim to be so damn smart, but then you talk to people like this and prove how ignorant you are in truth.
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posted
Y'know, Kwea, you keep harping on me claiming I'm smart. Where are you getting this? Also, instead of reaching instantly for the ad homs, how about making an argument for why such people should get respect?
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quote: I've never, ever even thought that this story was saying that it was GOOD the girl died!
Well, it definitely seems to suggest that the world is an uncaring place, and the only place she was able to find happiness was in heaven, don't you think?
I agree with you about the story and the film. It kind of hit me a little harder that it might have otherwise because I had recently been reading of some really horrific developments in Cambodia regarding children.
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posted
If you dislike that one, try "The girl who stepped on the bread". It's a little less horrific, but very moral, if you're a Christian.
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quote:Well, it definitely seems to suggest that the world is an uncaring place, and the only place she was able to find happiness was in heaven, don't you think?
The world doesn't HAVE to be an uncaring place, and if people cared, then it wouldn't be.
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posted
Oh, I agree. I'm not saying that all Christians or whatever believe that. Just pointing out that it's pretty clear from within the context of the story that you can definitely look at the girl's death as a good thing.
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posted
For her, perhaps, as the cessation of suffering. But certainly it's not being shown as the best solution.
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posted
Well, from within the context of the story, I don't see how that is true. I mean, it's not *just* the cessation of suffering. Dying is basically being shown as the answer to all the little girl's dreams, where she can achieve everything that she wanted in life but couldn't have and, given what we know of the little girl, almost certainly never would have.
Of course, outside of the story, we know that there are other options and possibilities, and that the story is not representative of the full range of theological and practical possibilities. No one, certainly not I,is suggesting that people should die rather than live life, or that the story is instructional.
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