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Author Topic: Six dead from shootings in SLC mall
katharina
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http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-feb1207-utahshooting.79990cf9.html

That's really freaky. I know that mall! [Frown]

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pooka
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The description of the shooter at desnews.com doesn't match anyone I know. Just saying is all.
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blacwolve
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These are the headlines on one of the websites I read an article on.
quote:
Nine die in Lebanon bus blasts
Gunmen kill 8 in US rampages

*shivers* It's easy to think that this kind of thihng is restricted to the middle east, and then it happens here, and you realize that it's not, and it's scary.
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Farmgirl
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I was more concerned with whether or not any of the VICTIMS were people we know.....

FG

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katharina
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I think pooka might have been referring to her brother.

I was worried about the victims, too. [Frown]

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El JT de Spang
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I woke up to a 615am phone call asking if I was all right (apparently a tornado hit New Orleans about 4 blocks from my apartment), and then the first thing I saw when I got to work was this article about the shooting.

Looks like the start of a crappy day.

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Farmgirl
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This kind of thing (don't know if the same picture will be there when YOU open it), is really, really tasteless.

Running a photo of someone's dead body on the floor is very hurtful to family, even if no one can easily recognize who it is.

Happened to us with my father's body when he was killed -- I think media that does this to people are just way over the line -- more interested in getting the exclusive shot, than the effect on family.

FG

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Saephon
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I agree Farmgirl...sometimes it feels like once a person is dead, in the eyes of certain media, they go from being a person to being a body.
[Frown]

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Amka
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Thought I was going to tune in to 'stupid news' on the radio this morning and that is what I found. We go there as a family. It's disturbing to see that venue in my mind under those circumstances.

You know, I gotta agree, CNN was very tasteless. I usually don't go there for news, but I went there for this, and they have a link "Watch witnesses recount gunshots, carnage"

Sometimes it is like all this human suffering is just a carnival to some people.

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littlemissattitude
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quote:
Originally posted by Amka:
You know, I gotta agree, CNN was very tasteless. I usually don't go there for news, but I went there for this, and they have a link "Watch witnesses recount gunshots, carnage"

I wouldn't limit my criticism to CNN; I just went over to look at Deseret News on the net and they have a different and just as graphic photo of what appears to be the same victim on their opening page. Only difference is that in the DesNews photo, there's an officer crouched next to the body, pointing a gun at someone.

I agree that it is tasteless to use such photos, but it isn't limited to just the big, evil national news outlets. They do that kind of thing all too often on the local television news shows here in central California.

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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by Farmgirl:
Running a photo of someone's dead body on the floor is very hurtful to family, even if no one can easily recognize who it is.

The clothing alone would be enough to freak several parents out if they saw it, either through accurate identification or similarity.
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James Tiberius Kirk
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quote:
You know, I gotta agree, CNN was very tasteless. I usually don't go there for news, but I went there for this, and they have a link "Watch witnesses recount gunshots, carnage"
Oh, it gets better:

Another article, from yesterday, with a link: "Watch children flee the horror of militia kidnappers."

The video itself is not as bad at it sounds, but CNN.com is one of the worst in this regard.

--j_k

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Survivor
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The simple fact of the shootings is enough to freak people out. After all, isn't the horror that someone can "go from being a person to being a body"?

It used to be commonly accepted that this was simply how mortal life was. Now it's a shocking and thus newsworthy event. Why?

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foundling
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I'm torn on the issue of major news media showing pictures of dead bodies. On one hand, I completely agree that it is tasteless and cruel to the people involved. I think that most are doing it purely for the sensationalism involved and the shock factor that makes people WANT to read their articles. I find that mentality disgusting.

On the other hand, I also think that there is a certain good to be had from seeing the reality of violence. Just reading about horrors, like we do every single day, gets numbing. Reading about children being raped and/or turned into killing machines, reading about teenagers killing and being killed, reading about the atrocities of war... words turn meaningless after awhile. They lose their power to shock us, to hurt us, and to make us REALLY think about what's actually going on in the world. I think words act as a buffer between us and reality. Whereas pictures, combined with words, still have the power to shock us out of apathy.
Seeing that body lying on the ground brought home to me the immense reality of what happened in that mall. That body was a part of a community, a family. Reading the words just didnt have the same impact. Maybe I didnt really NEED to have that impact for that particular story. But in the story about child killers, the picture of a little boy aiming a gun at the camera really brings home exactly what they're talking about.

I dont know. I think that violence and it's after effects can be portrayed with dignity and respect while still maintaining its ability to shock us into action. I just dont think it happens very often.

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cmc
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I saw that picture on cnn and I couldn't stop looking. I'm not saying I liked it. In fact, it was quite the opposite. But I was just stuck - like, wow. She went out in her jeans and sneaks to the mall. Who ever thinks some crazed kid is going to come in with a shot gun?
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Rakeesh
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quote:
On the other hand, I also think that there is a certain good to be had from seeing the reality of violence.
The way it gets seen* on mass media is largely bereft of consequence, bereft of context, and bereft of attention to the horror and suffering this sort of thing creates.

The way violence gets seen on mass media, its only educational value is to teach that violence can get you noticed and infamous.

*I'm speaking overall. Hostage situations and blood-on-the-pavement get a helluva lot more coverage than does a murder trial.

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Goody Scrivener
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I found out tonight that a friend of mine from one of my other boards had planned to go shopping at Williams Sonoma at that mall last night... and would have been there right when all h*** broke loose. Freaky freaky stuff.
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T_Smith
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First second I heard about it I asked my supervisor for 10 minutes to call home. One of the wounded was a 16 year old male, and I started to freak. Nobody I know personally, at least yet.
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Amka
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The shocking part, Survivor, is that this happened in a safe place and time. People who had no expectation or fear of dying weren't just accidentally killed, but purposefully killed. It kind of rips at our innate sense of safety.

I've been wondering why I noticed this shooting more than other violent deaths recently? It is simply that I have enough connection, being that this is actually one of my favorite places in SL since I've been a child, that the story of the lives of these people means more to me than if it had happened in a mall I was unfamiliar with. And the shootings would have impacted me even less had it occured in a random office building, because that is not a culture I'm part of. And even less if it had occured in another country, and so on and so forth.

The closer we can place ourselves to events, the easier it is for us to connect with the humanity of the people who were part of those events. It is part of our human frailty that we are less able to conceive of the individual humanity of people with whom we have little connection.

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cmc
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It took Amka's response for me to recognize Survivor's post.

I had been biting my tongue - or fingers - when it came to him until this. I apologize now for whatever I say that may be offensive to anyone else. I'm just worked up.

Really, Survivor, you're a jerk. You know what, though, on second thought, you're not even worth me getting worked up about!! Quit with your stupid, 'i'm secretly in-the-know about human destruction', human life isn't worth anything posts. Even if humans weren't the 'norm' here - their existence is still THE ONLY REASON YOU'RE POSTING HERE!! You're posting because they're posting back and for some reason care, in some ways, about what you have to say and hope that YOU are okay.

Gosh. You really are a jerk sometimes. Human to body happens all the time. It's the manner in which it happened that's a little 'off putting' in this circumstance - and it's the fact that there was a picture of someone whose life was reduced to a body in a news pic that made it a 'newsworthy event'.

Take your callousness elsewhere. Seriously.

edited: for grammar.

[ February 14, 2007, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: cmc ]

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pH
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quote:
Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
I woke up to a 615am phone call asking if I was all right (apparently a tornado hit New Orleans about 4 blocks from my apartment), and then the first thing I saw when I got to work was this article about the shooting.

Looks like the start of a crappy day.

Yeah, did you have power today? Apparently my house was part of a very small section of uptown that had electricty...the Universities were closed.

It's strange how completely oblivious we can be to the things that go on in the world.

-pH

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El JT de Spang
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My power was off until about 430pm. When I got home from work all my clocks were flashing 12:37.
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Survivor
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I know that it's uncomfortable to consider that you, as a human, can die at any time. But people really did live with it pretty much all the time throughout most of your history. Why are you so allergic to this simple fact of mortality now?

It isn't because "I'm a jerk". Well, maybe it is, but I don't think that most humans are even aware that I exist yet.

Anyway, if I am a jerk, at least I can point to Decimus et Ultimus and feel like there's room in this world for us jerks [Wink]

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The Rabbit
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Survivor, A look at any ancient literature whether it be the Hebrew Bible, Greek Classics, Chinese writings, the Egyption Book of the Dead or the Epic of Gillgemesh will reveal that death has always been considered a momentus event by humans and that untimely deaths and violent deaths have always been considered tragic. This is not solely a modern phenomenon.
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The Rabbit
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Trolley Square is located about midway between where I live and were I work. I go through this neighborhood and past this mall virtually everyday. And yet, I felt absolutely nothing except mild curiousity in response to this shooting. I wasn't worried that people I know were involved. I don't feel any less safe. I was even a bit irritated that Heroes was pre-empted Monday night for the live Newcast of the event, but that was mostly because they had no news whatsoever to share. Two hours after the shooting began, all the local news stations were still broadcasting "Well we really can't tell you anything", "We know that there are ambulances here and there are rumors that the gunman was shot but beyond that we're utterly clueless and we are going to keep reporting how little we know continuously until we learn something". The only thing I really felt that night was a bit of relief that I hadn't ridden through that neighborhood on my way home but that wasn't because of fear, more because I didn't want to get stuck in the various road closures and crowds.

I feel rather guilty about not feeling more about this shooting that was virtually next door. I wonder if there have been so many shootings and bombing and other henious crimes reported recently that I've walled them all off emotionally.

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Survivor
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Death is momentus. So is birth. Untimely death is tragic (otherwise it would hardly be considered untimely). Violent death...not so universally regarded.

The grief of losing someone close to you, that's a timeless emotion. The hysteria at being reminded that death isn't just something that happens to people "somewhere else"? That's quite a new thing.

It's true that, in my own experience, death does not bring about greater separation. I do not feel grief for the dead, they are as close to me as they were in life, often nearer. I do feel grief, but mainly for the separations that increase my distance from the living.

But we aren't talking about grief. We're talking about offense at the reminder that humans, even ones who shop in Trolley Square, can and do die unexpectedly.

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