quote:Originally posted by aspectre: Indian Jones and the Greedy Geezers of Franchise
TBH I really think its the fans of Indiana Jones that have been clamoring to get one last movie. Lucas almost nixed the idea, when he kept killing script after script. Harrison Ford sorta called Lucas out on it at Lucas' AFI Lifetime achievement evening. Spielberg was almost impossible to catch as he always has such a crowded schedule. It basically came down to, it films in 2007 or it never happens. Not making the movie would have upset quite a few people.
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I don't think they are greedy. Neither of them need the money, and I think both were very content to just let the series die.
Fans demanded another story, Ford was on board with it, so Lucas wrote a story then farmed out the script. Spielberg was always busy anyway, so getting them together to get it done hasn't been easy.
But I'm excited about this film, those two are a fantastic team.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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So Lucas didn't actually write the dialogue, right? He just came up with the story idea, and let someone else actually write the script, correct? I have always maintained that Lucas has good abstract ideas for stories, but needs to stay away from any actual dialogue. Of course, I was also a little uneasy that Ford and Spielberg liked the first script, but Lucas rejected it, mainly because he was the one who made the script for the recent Star Wars movies. But, I suppose it is possible to still be good at critiquing others' scripts, while being bad at writing your own. In addition, all 3 of them have agreed on the final script, and Spielberg said this script was worth the wait. That makes me feel a little better.
And just for fun, one of those sites mentioned that Ford said he would quit the movie if he was forced to use a CGI whip instead of a real one. Of course, there is no evidence that this threat was actually made, but supposedly there is some safety law in Hollywood now that bans dangerous props such as a whip.
I'm sorry, but Indiana Jones has to have a real whip. Posts: 684 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Well that's your opinion. Personally I didn't have anywhere near the problems the world's overly analytical complainers have about the movies.
There were some individual lines here and there that were really awful, but on the whole I found all three of the movies to be just fine, and other than minor dialogue problems, III was fantastic, II was good, and I, as a standalone, was a great ride (as part of the greater trilogy I found it the weakest, and there's a lot of ways he could have made it better, but anything can be made better).
Lucas would have had to make the best movie ever made to not disappoint people after the buildup Episode I got, and once their view was tainted, there was nothing he could do to make them happy. Now, ignoring everything else he has done in his entire career, most people overanalyze the hell out of Eps I-III, claim them to be the worst movies ever, and rip him up for it whenever his name is mentioned. Like all great filmmakers haven't made sub-par, in the minds of fans, movies at one time or another. I know of no one that gets the kinds of comments that Lucas gets automatically attached to his name, and it's ridiculous.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Well, I actually wasn't in a Lucas-bashing mood. It was just an honest fear, so I asked a question. I guess I still can't get out of my head the image of the interview I saw of him, a grown man, saying, "Jar Jar is probably the funniest character out of all the Star Wars movies." I hope he was just saying that for some other reason than that he actually believed this.
In all reality, I suppose I shouldn't judge his writing based only on the Star Wars prequels, since I know little else about his ability to write outside those movies.
Man, if I could just sit down with the man for 1 hour and ask him some questions, maybe it would all make sense.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Just curious, Lyrhawn, do the Star Wars prequels get better or worse for you each time you watch them? I actually remember enjoying watching all 3 shows the first time I watched them. I didn't get to see the first one in the theater, but I remember after watching episodes 2 & 3 that my friends and I talked a while about the shows, and we enjoyed them quite a bit.
Then I got the DVDs and brought them home, excited to see them again. The more I watched episode 1 and 2, the more I can't stand them. Episode 3 was good enough that I still enjoy watching it, though I have to remind myself not to subconsciously pick stuff apart. I am normally too lax about being picky with movies. I tend to be the one who enjoys a movie, even when others are picking it apart.
So, either the movies really deserve the uncomfortable feeling I get when I watch them more than once, or it is some subconscious anti-Lucas mantra that has formed within me. So I was just curious if they get better or worse for you, or just the same, each time you watch them.
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quote:There were some individual lines here and there that were really awful, but on the whole I found all three of the movies to be just fine, and other than minor dialogue problems, III was fantastic, II was good, and I, as a standalone, was a great ride (as part of the greater trilogy I found it the weakest, and there's a lot of ways he could have made it better, but anything can be made better).
quote:subconscious anti-Lucas mantra that has formed within me.
I think that's what it is for most people. Ep I actually got better for me a bit after I watched it a few times. II pretty much stayed the same. III I thought was awesome (other than one line in particular that had the audience, myself included, in stitches), and has stayed awesome for me after repeated viewings.
I think, that after a few years of talking about how much everyone hates the prequels, it's just natural and normal to hate them, and Lucas associatively. It doesn't even matter anymore if they were good or bad, or even if you've seen them, or if you gave them a fair shot when you saw them, they just SUCK, and it's in everyone's heads that they suck, so everyone just believes it.
It's Star Wars groupthink.
I wouldn't spend so much time defending Lucas if it weren't for the obscene amount of time, comparatively, I think it spent on bashing him. Lucas created Star Wars, he created all the stories for Indiana Jones and the characters therein, he created Willow, and the highly acclaimed American Graffiti, he revolutionized popular Sci Fi, took special effects up to the next level time and again, revolutionized film by pushing for advances, the latest of which is digital photography, created ILM (modern effects), created PIXAR (Toy Story etc.), helped create THX for sound effects, and more.
And after being such a huge force in the movie industry, creating and helping to create great memorable movies, and advances that allow us to enjoy movies as we do today, the only thing I EVER hear whenever his name is spoken is:
"Oh god, he didn't write the DIALOGUE did he? I mean, Lucas SUCKS!"
"Don't let that man near a pencil and paper, or a camera! For the love of God just stop making movies!"
For all the crappy, crappy, movies that are out there, the crappy screenplays and the crappy directors, George Lucas gets more default automatic crap thrown at him than I've seen anyone else get, short of maybe Hillary Clinton.
And like I said, I think it's beyond the point of substantive thoughtful conversation. It's a reflex now. Lucas = Crappy writer/director/_______. You don't even have to watch the prequels, just listen to the word of mouth and go along with it. I liked the prequels, a lot of people did, and while I think there was room for improvement, there's not enough to deserve the kind of automatic disdain that permeates the air around George Lucas' name.
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I don't think Lucas is a bad director, and you're right, his stories are FANTASTIC. But somewhere between Return of the Jedi and whatever "Episode I" is called, he lost the ability to write dialogue. That, paired with the worst acting I've ever seen in my life, made for what I believe to be one of the worst movies ever. I was bad, II was AWEFUL, but III was OK when people weren't trying to act.
I don't get what upsets you so much. Unless you're George Lucas or whoever it was that played Anakin....
Posts: 1156 | Registered: Jan 2004
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The Indiana Jones films have always been a bit more tongue-in-cheek the the Star Wars movies, for what it's worth. Both are deliberately larger than life, but in places where SW would go for drama, Indy would go for the knowing wink.
This was especially true in the first and third Indy movie, where the highly dramatic, scary moments were almost always defused.
(Remember what the "Nazi torture device" in Raiders of the Lost Ark turned out to really be?)
We know from The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles that Indy lives on until he's at -least- in his mid 90s, so the aged hero thing won't bother me a bit.
If anything, I'm worried about how crowded May of 2008 will be with "tent pole" releases. Iron Man, Speed Racer, Prince Caspian, Indiana Jones 4, Kun Fu Panda...lots of films.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:I don't get what upsets you so much. Unless you're George Lucas or whoever it was that played Anakin....
Hadyn Christianson. And I'm neither. I just get annoyed when I see this sort of bashing happening on a regular basis. I admit the dialogue has problems here and there, and I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about whether we like them or not (though I think "one of the worst movies ever" is hyperbole to the extreme).
It annoys me for the same reason I get annoyed when people bash the French, it's largely uncalled for, unnecessary, and just friggin annoying. You, airman, aren't really the target of my ire. It's the people who bash the man unendingly, like I've seen elsewhere on this forum.
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So...where do you see Indiana Jones 18-20 years or so after Crusade? Would he be married? Have a family? Still be single?
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Who cares, so long as arthritis hasn't left him unable to handle a bullwhip.
I think he'd have a family. His father was much the same way he was, with the adventure and everything, but he settled down. The scary thing, is that with the timeline and everything, wouldn't 20 years after Crusade by in the 60's?
I think he'd be a history professor or museum curator somewhere and have a family at home. Probably married to a smokin blonde.
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Indiana Jones and the Early Bird Special at Denny's.
Its a rip roaring high adventure tale as the debonair Indy escapes the retirement home and using his mobility enhanced scooter, races against the dreaded ex-Nazi's to grab the last table at Denny's before 5pm in order to get that holy grail--Dinner for $2.99.
Cameo's by his father, who cuts him off at the last minute, and by Silvester Stallone as "Rocky" .
His nemesi will be that famed Nazi character actor Dick van Dyke, and the old woman from "The Golden Girls".
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: So...where do you see Indiana Jones 18-20 years or so after Crusade? Would he be married? Have a family? Still be single?
I think the marriage question is off the table, I mean Indiana Jones in some respects is related to James Bond, both are chic magnets but neither settle down. Well Bond did, but SPOILERS* they killed off his wife. Indiana Jones hooked up with 2 seperate women and had an affair with one in all 3 movies and none of them are mentioned later. I really can't see him settling down.
I COULD see him having a kid though, just not a standard nuclear family.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I actually thought that, with a few flaws, I was not bad for what it was. II got my hopes up; it almost felt like real Star Wars in spite of Lucas. III, well, III was so bad I was both laughing and angry in the theater.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Yah, well, I don't care what anyone says, Lucas still sucks.
Ok, majorly kidding. I agree with you Lyrhawn on all your points, except that I would probably have more complaints about the prequels' writing and acting than you do. But, I do agree that it is unfair to automatically judge Lucas' abilities based on just these 3 movies.
From now on, now that I have recognized my anti-Lucas mantra, I will try not to jump to conclusions regarding Lucas and his movie-making skills.
See! Discussion on Hatrack CAN change opinions! It is possible!
Now, back on track, Indiana Jones has me excited, and it is about time they are getting this rolling. I have been following this 4th movie's "progress" for a decade. Even if it doesn't meet most people's expectations, it will still be fun to see Ford as Indiana Jones again.
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Hmmmm. Shia LaBeouf (who played Caveman in Holes and Spike in the upcoming Transformers) is in "final talks" to play Indiana Jones' son in the new film.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Impossible! He doesn't have Ford's perfectly chiseled chin! And which of the Indy girls is the mother?! Well I guess it comes down to two, though they could certainly introduce another girl. I wouldn't be interested in an Indy being forced to work with his ex lover to save the world.
Then again Indy being a dysfunctional father wouldn't be a shocker for a Spielberg movie! Does he even have a movie where the father figure isn't a dolt?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Indiana Jones Saves Christmas. Indiana finds the true meaning of Christmas when he helps Santa out of a pinch and delivers all the toys to the good boys and the decent enough girls.
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