FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Impeach Bush?

   
Author Topic: Impeach Bush?
Qaz
Member
Member # 10298

 - posted      Profile for Qaz           Edit/Delete Post 
The argument: Bush is ignoring an SC ruling that Gitmo detainees are covered by the Geneva Convention, and that they have a right to hear and present evidence when tried, and the administration's warrantless wiretaps within US borders violated the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 -- a criminal act.

Is this right? Wrong? Can we prove it?

Posts: 544 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
It'd be helpful to if you'd link to a news article of some kind, so I could get background on what it is, specifically, you're talking about.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post 
Qaz: At first I thought South Carolina not Supreme Court when you wrote SC ;P Two very difference things.

Should we have impeached Andrew Jackson when he told John Marshall to enforce his own ruling?

Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tresopax
Member
Member # 1063

 - posted      Profile for Tresopax           Edit/Delete Post 
It might have been a good idea.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Qaz
Member
Member # 10298

 - posted      Profile for Qaz           Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have good links, sorry. The argument I got was in the real world. Here are some links I could find:

Gitmo and the courts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasul_v._Bush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamdan_v._rumsfeld

Warrantless wiretaps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy
NY Times story exposing warrantless searches

[ March 12, 2007, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Qaz ]

Posts: 544 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dagonee
Member
Member # 5818

 - posted      Profile for Dagonee           Edit/Delete Post 
Bush sought additional legislation in response to Hamdan. If his argument that the legislation supports his actions is at all colorable, then he hasn't committed a crime even if his interpretation is eventually overturned by the courts. If one believes impeachment should only be sought in response to facts (including the necessary mental elements) which would support conviction of a crime, the Hamden/Rasul issue does not support impeachment.

I strongly doubt the wiretap supports impeachment by that standard, either. Unless one has a more relaxed standard for impeachment, these issues don't seem to suffice.

Perhaps you could present your view on the matter before asking people to expend their time on this?

Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Stephan
Member
Member # 7549

 - posted      Profile for Stephan   Email Stephan         Edit/Delete Post 
There would not be enough support in Congress for an impeachment anyways, it would just be a waste of time and tax money. Much like the Clinton impeachment.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ClaudiaTherese
Member
Member # 923

 - posted      Profile for ClaudiaTherese           Edit/Delete Post 
Qaz, welcome to Hatrack. [Smile]

It's a pretty eclectic crew. There are casual social threads as well as some pretty dense intellectual ones.

You will find that for the intellectual threads, people will pretty much respond in the depth to which you present yourself. So, throwing a complex idea out there without your own assessment is unlikely to have a satisfactory result.

PS: Additionally, some of us are more irritable than others at being asked to unknowingly participate in addressing someone else's homework question or paper assignment. This wouldn't happen to be for a class of any sort, would it?

Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Tresopax:
It might have been a good idea.

It might have, instead congress tried to impeach Andrew Johnson and not for "high crimes and misdemeanors." but for "political differences."

Our impeachment track record is not good. All the wrong presidents are impeached (thought admittedly never successfully, which is not a good thing), and all the ones who ought to be impeached are ignored.

Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Qaz
Member
Member # 10298

 - posted      Profile for Qaz           Edit/Delete Post 
This isn't for any sort of assignment, no.

My view on this is: I'm torn. I heard a lot in the speech that I was sure was wrong (Geneva Convention applying to suspected terrorists -- they aren't uniformed soldiers; a worry that Bush was planning a self-coup -- yes, it said that). But that doesn't mean he's wrong about his central points.

I don't want a President removed for making policy decisions judges or Congressman disagree with, but...if it really is a crime to do warrantless wiretaps, and he does them, how can we disagree that it's a *high* crime?

If the facts here are true, I think the speaker had a good case. But I am not sure about his facts. He did say as an aside that the recent DC ruling on gun control establishes that government may not regulate guns in any way, and I found the decision, and it doesn't say that at all. (It says that the 2nd Amendment does apply to individuals.) So he may have played fast and loose with these facts as well. What I found online so far doesn't dispute his facts though.

The parallel-courts thing...we already have a parallel courts thing, the military courts. But a military court shouldn't be allowed to prevent the defendant from seeing or presenting evidence.

Posts: 544 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ClaudiaTherese
Member
Member # 923

 - posted      Profile for ClaudiaTherese           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Qaz:
This isn't for a class assignment, no.

Thanks. [Smile]

Again, welcome.

Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hugh57
Member
Member # 5527

 - posted      Profile for hugh57   Email hugh57         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not willing to seriously consider impeaching Bush while Cheney is still VP. Unless Cheney is first impeached (or resigns or whatever), and is replaced with someone reasonable, I'll just wait for 2008 to replace Bush.

Back in the 70s, nobody seriously considered impeachment proceedings against Nixon until after Spiro Agnew had resigned and was replaced by Gerald R. Ford.

Posts: 241 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post 
And my plan to con a hatracker into creating a thread that aids in a paper I need to write remains unknown and profitable! BWAHAHAHA!
[Cool]

Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ClaudiaTherese
Member
Member # 923

 - posted      Profile for ClaudiaTherese           Edit/Delete Post 
At least it'd be different.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Altáriël of Dorthonion
Member
Member # 6473

 - posted      Profile for Altáriël of Dorthonion   Email Altáriël of Dorthonion         Edit/Delete Post 
Here's the thing I don't get about Bush. He's the most powerful man in the entire world. Why the hell does want more power?!
Posts: 3389 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by hugh57:
I'm not willing to seriously consider impeaching Bush while Cheney is still VP. Unless Cheney is first impeached (or resigns or whatever), and is replaced with someone reasonable, I'll just wait for 2008 to replace Bush.

Back in the 70s, nobody seriously considered impeachment proceedings against Nixon until after Spiro Agnew had resigned and was replaced by Gerald R. Ford.

So the plan should be to build a case against Cheney, impeach Bush, then impeach Cheney while the Democrats in Congress stonewall against choosing a new VP...then Pelosi becomes president.

I think I'd almost call that a coup.

Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post 
Impeachment of the president is more connected to party power in congress than it is to severity of any actual crime committed by them.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AvidReader
Member
Member # 6007

 - posted      Profile for AvidReader   Email AvidReader         Edit/Delete Post 
What I read on Yahoo and can't find now was that certain towns in Vermont are trying to impeach W. I was a little fuzzy on that. I'd hope they were pressuring their Congressmen to do it, cause I don't know how a state much less a town could go about it. [Dont Know]
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion:
Here's the thing I don't get about Bush. He's the most powerful man in the entire world. Why the hell does want more power?!

It does not follow that being, "The Most Powerful Man In The World" means "You have the right amount of power to be president of the US."

What if every other world leader is terribly devoid of power? Call it, "underpowered."

Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2