posted
What's the logical fallacy where someone keeps accusing you of using a logical fallacy where none exists?
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
In case you are not sure how, click the edit post icon (next to the quotation marks), and in the top left of your post you will see a check box that says, "Delete Post? Check box if yes."
Errant post should then disappear.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
If you started the thread, simply deleting your post (the first one of the thread) will result in deletion of the entire thread.
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I don't think there's a name for that, in that it isn't a fallacy; it's just wrong. (It's not a fallacy because "Your argument contains a fallacy" is sometimes true!)
Posts: 544 | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
FYI: This is Resh' response to Tom and I pointing out that the following post by Resh contained an ad hominem attack.
quote:I have discovered recently that my participation on this forum (as well as a few others) and generally in all the friendly debates I find myself most likely to be engaged in have me taking the angle most diametrically opposite the one exhibiting the most flagrant displays of arrogance and notions of superiority and enlightenment. So I'm learning some things about myself here, and I thank you all for that. I think my entire contribution to any future threads here will basically be along the lines of a suggestion to "get over yourself."
posted
Not really. That is a very commonly misused phrase: "begging the question." But I am asking for CT because 1) She is nice, and 2) She seems to know a lot about logical constructs.
It's not an ad hominem because I am attacking the argument, not the arguer. A very nice and soft-spoken person could try to compassionately explain how Global Warming is a fact, and here's why, and not act arrogant about it. But because the argument hinges on the idea that those making know so much more about it than I do, and that the only way I could disagree is by being ignorant of the facts, and just because the actual arguments for Global Warming are not convincing to the uninitiated does not mean I should continue to resist because resistance is futile, so sayeth Academy Award Winner Al Gore, well, that is the problem I have, and that is the arrogance and self-righteousness that I oppose.
To be honest, most of the Global Warming fanatics are very sensitive people who are deeply concerned with the planet and humanity. They want good things for us. I just don't like being told that I'm not allowed to disagree.
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I don't quite understand the question. I think the word you may be looking for is "wrong" or "incorrect" or "unsubstantiated." When someone makes a claim that is wrong, incorrect, and/or unsubstantiated, it isn't necesarily a logical fallacy -- it may just be a wrong, incorrect, or unsubstantiated claim.
That is merely the assignment of a truth value (namely, "false") to a proposition.
In contrast, a logical fallacy -- by definition -- has to do with how propositions are asserted to link together to support a conclusion. This is at a different level of analysis than the truth value of the individual propositions.
I can't comment on the actual argument at hand, as I haven't been following it, and I will not be reading it. *smile
posted
See what I mean, everybody? She knows her stuff! I think she showed up 15 minutes after I posted because I called her nice and her complement radar when off.
Thanks, CT, but I was being facetious. I was just trying to goad Tom. Why? I don't know, it's fun!
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
So you called out CT, asked her to take time to answer your question, and then when she graciously answers your question, you say that you really don't care? What makes you think people are ever going to take time to respond to you when you act like this?
Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: See what I mean, everybody? She knows her stuff! I think she showed up 15 minutes after I posted because I called her nice and her complement radar when off.
I was migrainous yesterday and only reading what was necessary. Luckily, this passed with sleep.
quote:Thanks, CT, but I was being facetious. I was just trying to goad Tom. Why? I don't know, it's fun!
Ah. So you were using me as a tool, as a means only to your end?
I disapprove. Quite strongly, actually, as this is the sort of blightful action likely to make me migrainous once more.
posted
I believe it is called the, "Just Because You're an Expert and I'm Not Doesn't Mean My Opinion Isn't Just as Valid As Yours Because This Is America, Dammit" argument.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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What's your problem? What did you have to do with anything? I'm sick of hearing from you. You and King Of Men seem to have only the purpose of being insulting to people you disagree with. I've had people make valid complaints about being insulting, but that is never my sole intention with any of my posts. Sometimes I do it inadvertently, and sometimes carelessly, but I don't go hunting around for you or KoM just to drop something meanspirited. So unless you want to engage me like the other's do, why don't you gracefully abstain from directing anything you have to say toward me.
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: What's your problem? What did you have to do with anything? I'm sick of hearing from you. You and King Of Men seem to have only the purpose of being insulting to people you disagree with.
The irony!!! It burns, it burns!
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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You were having fun, getting someone else to dance to the tune you called, while in the guise of asking because you respected and liked them.
Don't start whining when people get pissed about that, especially when you do it to someone as well-liked in this community as CT.
quote:I've had people make valid complaints about being insulting, but that is never my sole intention with any of my posts.
Thanks, CT, but I was being facetious. I was just trying to goad Tom. Why? I don't know, it's fun!
You are so full of crap, Reshpeckobiggle. You're coming into KoM territory yourself, without the somewhat mitigating benefit he enjoys of being funny sometimes, and genuinenly interesting to listen to outside of his fanatic-area issues.
There is at least one insult in that quote, and possibly two. So there goes your BS claim that you don't deliberately try to be insulting.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I'm glad, CT, I meant it. I do like you too, I think you are very nice.
Come on, Rivka, it's true. People get insulted by me, but I really don't insult for it's own sake. Sometimes they come out becuase the timing is right, and that's no excuse, but you know I don't do what Kwea and KoM do.
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quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: Come on, Rivka, it's true. People get insulted by me, but I really don't insult for it's own sake.
The evidence indicates otherwise. And there is a lot of evidence.
And pray do not use the "he started it!" or "but he's doing worse stuff!" excuses. What are you, six?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
You just did what you said you don't do. By your own words, you're full of crap. I even put it in bold for you.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: I fear the fisheye.
It's the best part of the fish if you ask any Chinese person, you must never pick it up for yourself, it must be offered to you.
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posted
Trying to goad Tom is an insult? He knew I was being lighthearted about the whole thing and responded in kind. I apologized to CT for my insensitivity, and I think we/re OK. What are you guys here for? To tell me off, it seems. Well, I'm not going to say anything more about it.
Is that true, Blackblade? I mean, I'm sure it is. Would it be an insult to refuse, or vomit?
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote: Is that true, Blackblade? I mean, I'm sure it is. Would it be an insult to refuse, or vomit?
In the case of refusing, depends on who you are with. Chinese people are not identical across the board, use your best judgment. If it was say your boss, swallow the eyes, pretend to chew and smile afterwards.
In the case of vomit, it is to be hoped that the sheer horror of vomiting in the company of others would suppress your desire to ralph. But fortunately for you, if you barfed in the presence of Chinese people, they would probably laugh it off, and somebody would make it their primary concern to help you clean up.
They are very sweet and decent people.
Edited for grammar and clarity.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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So unless you want to engage me like the other's do, why don't you gracefully abstain from directing anything you have to say toward me.
Riiiiight.
I have been posting here for over 6 years, and all I do is look for YOUR posts and snipe?
I am not saying I don't snipe at you...I think it is about time for someone to give you a taste of it since you seem to enjoy it yourself....but I have at least made a serious contribution to this board in the past 6 years. I have hosted Hatrack parties, I have helped Hatrackers out, people I know just from Hatrack helped me move and helped me ease into life in FL when I moved.
I have been part of the comedy squad, part of the organizers of events here, and have always tried to be open to others views....as long as they were respectful of mine in return.
What the hell have you contributed again?
Not a hell of a lot.
Get a clue. I have a problem with you because you are clueless and ignorant, and insist that you know better than everyone else...and then whine and cry when no one agrees with you because your "logic" isn't convincing.
I will engage you politely when I see you doing the same. Make an argument WITHOUT insulting or belittling people who disagree and there is no problem.
Continue down the same path and expect more of the same.
I am done with allowing people like you to ruin my favorite place on the web. I won't stalk you....you aren't worth the effort, frankly, but if I small a rat I will continue to say I do.
You want people to take your serious and engage your arguments?
Try living what you are preaching first.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote: Is that true, Blackblade? I mean, I'm sure it is. Would it be an insult to refuse, or vomit?
In the case of refusing, depends on who you are with. Chinese people are not identical across the board, use your best judgment. If it was say your boss, swallow the eyes, pretend to chew and smile afterwards.
In the case of vomit, it is to be hoped that the sheer horror of vomiting in the company of others would suppress your desire to ralph. But fortunately for you, if you barfed in the presence of Chinese people, they would probably laugh it off, and somebody would make it their primary concern to help you clean up.
They are very sweet and decent people.
Edited for grammar and clarity.
Don't I know it. I live in an apartment complex with mostly international students here as CSU. The asians in general are all very polite and friendly. They seem very appreciative of small gestures, which is all one can manage usually. Like learning to say hello in Cantonese or Hindu.
Kwea, I generally try to come to each thread with a completely clean slate. I understand if you feel entitle to some deference because of your history here, but I;m not going to treat you any differently than someone who just came here. Where in Florida are you?
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Nah. The "CT fallacy" is assuming that just because CT is usually exceedingly polite and sweet, one is able to take advantage of her good nature without fear of response.
I'm with Chris on this one.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I have never claimed any need for deference due to anything. All I ask is that you stop telling people what they think and feel, and take into consideration that they may feel just as strong as you about whatever topic you are discussing.
That doesn't make them stupid, or immoral, or even wrong.
I live in Central Florida, but just moved about 6 months ago from Kissimmee to Ocala. I am good friends with Icarus and his family, whom I met here years ago. They are in the Kissimmee area too....
zgator, who doesn't post here as much these days, lives near here as well, and Apple is currently working at Disney, I think. newfoundlogic lived here as well, before his untimely death....and Chris Bridges lives near here as well. My friend Kevin joined here, and lurks often but doesn't post much...he lives in the same area, near Disney.
We have a fairly decent sized group here in Central FL.
Part of the problem may be that you might not have understood how close knit parts of this community is, and how different Hatrack has been over the years compared to most places on the web.
Or maybe not. I don't know what you are aware of or not....
A lot of us have made points of getting together whenever we are in someones area. Whole families have taken vacation together, and even people who are on complete opposite sides of the spectrum with regard to religion and/or politics regularly make trips to see other Hatrackers. I drove 2 hours each way to meet Bob_Scopatz in Boston, all for about 2-3 hours over dinner, all because he seemed cool and I wanted to meet him. zgator helped me find an apartment, and Icky became one of my best friends ever.
It isn't about any special benefits from being here a while, it is that a lot of the sense of community we use to have seems diminished these days.
And argumentative, dismissive posts have become if not the norm at least less unusual.
I will lay off a bit, for now. I am sorry I came on so strong, I guess, but a lot of what I read in your posts DID seem very argumentative and dismissive of others views.
You aren't stupid, but believe me when I say that you aren't communicating your points well if you think you haven't been all you have been accused of recently. It isn't one thread people are talking about, or one topic. It is a repeated series of actions over a period of time.....
...if you really don't want to piss people off, and you re just trying to make your points, you have not succeeded, have you? I knew I was being tough and offensive to a point. I was trying to make my point to you, even if it was made heavy handed.
So the next time you accuse someone of thinking something they haven't said, or ignoring something that is "obvious", you can't say you didn't know how offensive claiming to know these things can be.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you know something they don't. It could be that their values or priorities are different, and for good reasons, and so they came to a different conclusion that you did.
posted
I'd like to point out that this was already posted at 2:10 p.m.:
quote:I'm sorry.
I'd also like to suggest (generally speaking) that if you are afraid that the Hatrack "community" is being destroyed, it is probably you that is destroying it. I say this because the webpage you are looking at is a discussion forum, not a community. It exists so we can discuss things. The community associated with it exists separately, in the minds of Hatrackers, through the feelings of friendship and relationships they each hold to others. Those relationships are not harmed by anything written on the discussion forum unless you decide to let it. If you choose to let your frustration with words written on the forum leak into relationships with others here, then so be it. But I see no reason why you can't choose to let it go, instead.
My suspicion is that if we can't let it go, then it may be unwise to base a social community around a forum designed more or less for argument.
Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Well, it is a good thing I don't particularily care what you think about these issues, Xap...
...particularily since you are the most obvious example of "changing definitions" I have ever seen, Xap. you use to constantly attempt to define terms for others in ways that they disagreed with, then try to accuse them of deviating from YOUR definitions of terms even though they had never accepted your re-definition of it in the first place.
I don't claim to speak for Hatrack in general...I never have....but I am hardly the first to notice this change, or even comment on it recently.
They way people treat each other IS noticed, and does influence others even on a web board.
I can count the number of people I have gone off on on one hand, and that is the total number in 6 years of posting. One or two of them didn't deserve it, at least not as bad as I went off, and I made sure I apoligized.
Two others were banned, and not for any discussion I had with them....so I guess I was on to something.
This time I don't feel like I am wrong, nor do I feel it is all in my head.
As to your suggestion that I am destroying anything here....whatever. I am the least of the problem.
I only say what I feel and think...not what others do.
Nor do I insist of redefining all the terms in ever single debate in order to make my points.
I also refuse to accept that discussion = argument just because you say so, and the idea that a community based on discussion of ideas is flawed.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I didn't say that a community based on discussion of ideas is necessarily flawed. I think it is flawed IF you don't ultimately let it go when people say things you don't like.
Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I'm originally from South Florida, West Palm Beach region. I had some good friends from Ocala, so there you go.
[quote]Rakeesh Part of the problem may be that you might not have understood how close knit parts of this community is, and how different Hatrack has been over the years compared to most places on the web.
Or maybe not. I don't know what you are aware of or not.... [quote]
See how you caught yourself there? You don't always do that. You see, we always know more or less what we mean to say. But rare is the person who always more or less says what he means. I don't presume to know anyone's unstated motivations. All I can do is base my responses opn what others say. Much gets lost in the ether, so to speak. This is a classic problem. The real trouble is when someone takes these constant miscommunications and uses them as an excuse to belittle, demean, and even ostracize, as I feel is ofetn the purpose of some of posts directed at me. I don't know that that was your purpose ever, but that's my determination based on what I have to work with. Now I'm not gonna give that caveat every time I speak; it should be something that is implicitly understood. Let's just all agree that sometimes things come out wrong, or more offensive, than was intended. Especially on an internet forum, where vocal tone and inflection is nearly absent. Italics are about the best we've got.
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Its so odd to have a thread bearing Claudia Therese's name and yet so much venom is being being spewn about.
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