posted
Somehow I expect this debate (nationally I mean) to go on for a long time. Lots of people will always say that fat people should just shut up and exercise, but there's that growing segment of the population that says it's not necessarily their fault, they have a genetic predisposition. I'm glad there are studies to prove that some people really aren't just fat and lazy, they have a condition that maybe should be treated like any other ailment. And hopefully it'll start turning back the stigma against the overweight.
posted
Wasn't there also a study a while back that showed that drinking diet soda actually tended to make people hungrier, so they ended up consuming more calories?
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posted
I'm naturally slim (in fact, gaining weight can be an uphill struggle) so I have to remind myself to have compassion for the overweight. Studies like this are a good reminder why that's a good idea. I just hope this doesn't get used as an excuse to not even try to stay healthy.
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I've heard that Diet Sodas contain appetite stimulants but I'm also curious if there was a study done or this is just an urban legend.
Personally, I don't know how I feel about studies like this. Its good on a social level because I think more of the general public needs to be aware of all of the causes of obesity without assuming "lazy overeater." My mother, after putting on weight with three pregnancies, lost practically all of her thyroid to cancer making it very difficult to lose the weight. She works with a personal trainer almost daily now, and while she doesn't look different physically, she is now incredibly healthy.
But that's the thing that worries me, that people will assume that because they're predisposed to being overweight they can't or shouldn't do anything about it. Maybe the weight will come off with dieting and exercise. And even if it doesn't, that's not an excuse not to be healthy so your body will be better able to handle the side-effects of excessive weight. I don't think my mother remembers the last time she had chocolate or a hamburger and she may lose only three pounds this year but it doesn't stop her.
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: Wasn't there also a study a while back that showed that drinking diet soda actually tended to make people hungrier, so they ended up consuming more calories?
I hadn't heard that one. There was a study awhile back about how the artificial sweetners cause cancer in rats.
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quote:Originally posted by Shanna: I've heard that Diet Sodas contain appetite stimulants but I'm also curious if there was a study done or this is just an urban legend.
posted
I have found personally that drinking almost ANYTHING but water causes me to feel hungrier, and also to drink less water (and the less water I drink, the more I tend to eat.)
When I'm dieting, drinking only water, and lots of it, is an important part of my diet strategy.
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"Obesity" means 20% overweight. I don't think the body of the article mentioned obesity as part of the actual study. Obesity is the point at which being overweight becomes a predictor of other illnesses.
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It makes sense to me that genes play a bigger role in metabolism than nurture. But I think people are kidding themselves if they pin the obesity problems in this country on genes rather than lifestyle. A quick look at the CDC's map of obesity throughout time shows that in America, obesity is increasing. I don't think the demographics of these places have changed as rapidly as obesity has increased, which leaves lifestyle to explain the difference. I work in the health insurance industry and the reason why costs are skyrocketing is pretty straight forward- people are making worse life style choices.
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The diet soda "scares" bother me considerably, because I love my Crystal Lite. So many people have been telling me that it's actually slowing my weight loss. I've been drinking more water than ever thanks to Crystal Lite, though.
The first study reminds me that genetics SUCKS. Because I have to work twice as hard to lose weight than my stupid thin roommates that eat whatever they want.
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If diet soda is ever better for weight than sugar-laden, it is when people are not paying attention to what they are eating otherwise.
Regular soda is sugar water - it's liquid candy. It's never actually a healthy choice. Diet soda can be at least neutral.
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I am constantly amazed at how my monthly cycle affects my eating habits. One week out of four I am absolutely ravenous, and one week out of four I can go a whole day without remembering to eat. Were I always at the one circumstance, I would be quite heavy; were I always at the other, I'd be malnourished -- both despite the same exertion of willpower and good intentions as on my middle two weeks. How odd.
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My personal experience supports that being overweight according the BMI standards can be essentially unavoidable.
Five years ago I got healthy, started eating very well, worked out HARD 5 days/ week (and didn't ever miss a day). I lost a ton of weight, felt and looked great, and got down to a size 6-8, depending on the brand.
I was still overweight according to my BMI, and had about 10 more pounds to lose in order to avoid being classified as overweight. I'd like to say it was all muscle and that's what was throwing it off, but I definitely still carried body fat in my belly, rear end, and thighs.
Looking back, I honestly can't see any way to have lost those last 10 pounds in a healthy way. Maybe I should just have grown 2 inches. Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Juxtapose: I'm naturally slim (in fact, gaining weight can be an uphill struggle) so I have to remind myself to have compassion for the overweight. Studies like this are a good reminder why that's a good idea.
Wouldn't compassion be a better stance even if there weren't studies like this?
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posted
If you're extremely athletic, the BMI will classify you as overweight because of muscle mass. So, for instance, many professional athletes are classified as overweight. I really doubt that's an issue for 95% of the people in the US classified as overweight by the BMI, though. Americans are just fat.
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posted
There's a different formula you can use, I can't remember what it is (I want to say BEI?) where it takes into account age, gende and body fat to let you know if you're overweight or not. That one I think would be worthwhile.
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quote:I am constantly amazed at how my monthly cycle affects my eating habits. One week out of four I am absolutely ravenous, and one week out of four I can go a whole day without remembering to eat. Were I always at the one circumstance, I would be quite heavy; were I always at the other, I'd be malnourished -- both despite the same exertion of willpower and good intentions as on my middle two weeks. How odd.
I completely agree. During a certain time of the month, if I do not indulge the verocious cravings for chocolate and sugar and butter, I actually dream about chocolate cake for days on end. It is a very real phenomonon, and since I've been tracking my weight recently you can visibly see the difference.
My mother gained weight with each of five children and then her thyroid slowed down, she didn't discover this for years. It means she spent years, years hating herself and her body because even when she did follow diets and exercise, she couldn't lose weight. She was continually told (by others, not her family, thank heavens) that it was a weakness and a sign of lack of willpower and I'd give anything in the world for us to understand how weight gain works and for my mother to be in a doctor's care that understood it and kept her from blaming herself.
Life is seriously unfair sometimes.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: There's a different formula you can use, I can't remember what it is (I want to say BEI?) where it takes into account age, gende and body fat to let you know if you're overweight or not. That one I think would be worthwhile.
Well, the best way to measure this is to go to a professional trainer, nutritionist, or other person who's been trained to use body fat calipers, and have a proper test done. The BMI has never been meant as more than a quick, back-of-hand sort of calculator, which a lot of people forget.
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The big problem with this study is that it fails to explain the growth in childhood obesity in recent years.
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What I'm not sure about is how to balance compassion against the real problem of growing obesity.
Obesity rates are skyrocketing and there are serious health consequences to that which affect everyone. Well at least it affects everyone who pays taxes and medical insurance premiums. The CDC has listed this as the number one health concern in the US.
I have a genetic disease which requires that I follow a very difficult diet. I know what its like to crave things I can't eat. I know what its like to go to a party and not be able to eat anything thats served. I know what its like to dream at night about the foods I can't eat. I know what its like to sit with friends who are eating Pizza and not have even a nibble. I know what its like to walk past a pastry table, to watch the dessert tray go by and serve the birthday cake without being able to indulge. I've had to go hungry plenty of times because I can't find anything that's on my diet. But I don't cheat on my diet because I know that there are serious long term health effects if I do.
I'll admit, I've never been over weight or struggled to loose weight, but I think that I know what it is like to stick to a very difficult diet and I know that it can be done if people are convinced its important.
I understand that some people have a much harder time keeping the weight off than others. I can empathize with how hard it can be to follow a diet and have sympathy for those for whom keeping their weight down is a constant struggle. I have alot less sympathy for those who give up on the struggle and complain that they just can't follow the diet because they have constant cravings.
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quote:If you're extremely athletic, the BMI will classify you as overweight because of muscle mass.
My 10 year old is a competitive gymnast, and according to the doctor, she is classified as overweight, and just slightly under "obese." He, of course, laughed it off when he showed me the chart and said for kids like her the charts are virtually useless. It doesn't hurt to keep that in mind.
It also doesn't hurt to keep in mind that most 10 year olds are not like my daughter, and that for many, the charts do serve their purpose. There are, of course, many different indicators of physical fitness besides weight, but weight is a useful indicator.
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Obesity isn't strictly an American problem; it impacts most industrialized countries around the world.
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posted
Both of my birthparents are quite obese. I am not. Their parents are all of normal weight. I'm sure some of this is genetic, but a lot of it is dietary. Cut the carbs, eat mostly fresh and unprocessed, get some exercise, eat some coconut oil if you can...these are things that work. Substituting good-quality fats for carbs is an excellent way to control carb cravings.
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quote:Originally posted by Juxtapose: I'm naturally slim (in fact, gaining weight can be an uphill struggle) so I have to remind myself to have compassion for the overweight. Studies like this are a good reminder why that's a good idea.
Wouldn't compassion be a better stance even if there weren't studies like this?
For sure. I don't walk around all day silently judging every obese person who enters my view. But that kind of experience is very foreign to me and it can take some work to empathize.
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posted
BMI also doesn't work for people who are particularly tall or particularly short. Definitely body fat measurements and other calculations work better for individuals, as long as the people taking the measurements know what they're doing.
quote:Originally posted by SenojRetep: ... Obesity isn't strictly an American problem; it impacts most industrialized countries around the world.
Indeed.
Although, I'd add that the *degree* at which the problem is prevalent in the United States as compared to other industrialised nations can be big.
quote: "I don't know for how long Japan can maintain the world's highest longevity," says Yukio Yamori, director of the International Center for Research on Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Diseases. "If eating habits change, life expectancy will shorten and this has already been made clear."
Still, the Japanese are a long way from being as fat as Americans. Only 24% of Japanese aged 15 and older are believed to be overweight, compared to about 65% of adults in the United States.
quote:Originally posted by Juxtapose: I'm naturally slim (in fact, gaining weight can be an uphill struggle) so I have to remind myself to have compassion for the overweight. Studies like this are a good reminder why that's a good idea.
Wouldn't compassion be a better stance even if there weren't studies like this?
For sure. I don't walk around all day silently judging every obese person who enters my view.
I really don't think there are many people who DO walk around judging every obese person they see...but people can be very defensive about their weight, and it can be hard to empathize when that defensiveness turns directly toward you. For example, declarations that I am not a "real" woman because I'm thin are just as hurtful to me as some derogatory remark the other way. But that's a personal thing...and one of the reasons the whole emphasis on "celebrating REAL women" kind of bothers me.
Anyways. I don't find it hard to empathize...I've worked with a trainer and a nutritionist, and I have trouble sticking with proper nutrition sometimes even though I try to shop for only the things that are healthy for me. And as others have said, my appetite is somewhat hormonal as well.
quote:Originally posted by SenojRetep: ... Obesity isn't strictly an American problem; it impacts most industrialized countries around the world.
Indeed.
Although, I'd add that the *degree* at which the problem is prevalent in the United States as compared to other industrialised nations can be big.
Japan (and other industrialized Eastern Asian countries) is exactly why I said "most industrialized countries." Whether due to cultural or genetic reasons, those countries have a dramatically lower rate of obesity than others of comparable industrial levels. In general, European (including Russia and former British colonies) and American countries with industrial levels similar to the US have similar levels of obesity.
After playing with it, I'll retract a bit of what I said; US obesity percentage does appear to be about 1.5x that of many of a rough average of other industrialized European and American countries. That contradicts some of the other statistics I found earlier, but I tend to trust this widget more than the random webpage I was looking at before.
<edit>And after playing some more, I'm willing to downgrade my estimate to about 2-2.5 x the obesity percentages of other countries. Here are some numbers from the website:
Argentina, 31.2 Australia, 24.3 Austria, 20.8 Belgium, 11.4 Chile, 25.3 Denmark, 8.9 Finland, 18.3 France, 7.2 Germany, 20.7 Italy, 12.7 Kuwait, 41.2 Mexico, 29.2 Netherlands, 10.9 New Zealand, 27.3 Norway, 10.3 Portugal, 14.9 Russian Federation, 16.6 Saudi Arabia, 28.4 Spain, 15.7 Sweden, 11.4 Switzerland, 15.6 United Arab Emirates, 32.0 United Kingdom, 22.9 United States, 39.2 </edit>
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Obesity isn't strictly an American problem; it impacts most industrialized countries around the world.
Actually, Americans are dramatically fatter than most OECD nations. Here's a excel sheet on obesity in OECD nations. Here's an article with a chart of countries' percentages of overweight & obese. Obviously obesity isn't a strictly American problem, but it's a much more significant problem in the US than in most other countries.
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