posted
I am not an avid gamer, in fact I seldom play. I am willing to pay less then 15 a month to keep a game active to either play with my brother or to use to de-stress late at night.
I really liked Guild Wars a while back. I briefly played LOTRO and liked it, but it bacame a title farm and I never interacted with other players. I am avoiding WOW (don't even mention it).
I was a huge fan of DAOC and have Warhammer, but their servers are slow, and without other people the game is not very good. I do love the PVP in the first tiers. I never played in tier 2.
Mythic is great at taking a good concept, launching a great game, and tweaking it out of existence.
I am thinking about Pirates of the Burning Sea, ATITD, or a good space sim.
Any recommendations on games that are actually attracting customers and you enjoy? I am looking for a good off-and--on MMORPG.
I am avoiding WoW because it seems too...eh, like something where you have to devote your life. I like pvp and managing economics or trading. Straight fantasy doesn't appeal to me much.
Ideas?
EDIT: Note, I LOVED CIV IV. I think it is a near perfect game, but I was palying it too much.
The game lost the fun factor once I figured out how to edit the map and add characters/resources in game. It was either too tempting to cheat and have a boring game or the option of cheating made not cheating make the game see pointless.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:I am avoiding WoW because it seems too...eh, like something where you have to devote your life.
WoW is actually the most casual friendly of pretty much everything you mentioned. It is essentially the only answer I could give you. The mmorpg field is extremely limited in terms of viable and semi-viable consistent contenders, and everything you just said indicates that of all the mogs available, world of warcraft is your best fit and you have exhausted pretty much everything else short of EvE, which you should not touch.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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I was going to mention EvE. I haven't played it, but my roommate does, and he doesn't seem to get completely sucked in by it. Again though, I can't speak from experience.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
I second EvE as a good choice for a deep emersive scifi mmorpg experience but is something that requires a significant commitment to get anything from it unless your the type of person that likes being crazy but awesome people and goes out in pvp areas with a newbie frigate.
I got something around 24 million skillpoints now, I had maybe 8 million the last time we discussed it on hatrack, I'm almost got the skills I need to fly capitolships, been going back and forth to even out my other skills. (getting t2 turrets, etc)
Now a good tactical minded off and on mmorpg thats free is Navyfield, you control a WWII era ship in roughly even sided organized engagements between 2 fleets you start with a frigate and a destroyer work your way up to either a aircraft carrier or a battleship, you have to sorta plan ahead of time what you wanna do as theres a set tree you can go one path not both unless you train up a new ship captain (not particularily hard).
Navyfield takes very little commitment to get the hang of though it will take a long time with the free version to get to your first capitol ship.
Historical wwii era and prototype ships of german, uk, usa, and japanese navies are available.
Not sure if you been payin' any attention to any updates to EVE but whatever lag youve been complaining about has gone significantly down and if i recal, BoB is finally dead. FREEDOM!
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quote:There is a jagged fissure of insanity which runs through the heart of the EVE playerbase, a kind of feverish bad crazy that you simply don't find in other online games. Oh, sure, everyone knows a tale or two about the Starcraft player who stayed awake for 50 hours and died from exhaustion because he wouldn't stop gaming, or the legions of relatively mundane overweight basement-dwelling nerds that populate the other MMOs that have a lack of perspective that comes from playing in virtual worlds too much. Some people like to point to South Korea's Starcraft tournaments as a sign of abnormality, but sporting leagues are a 'healthy' expression of hobby activity by most standards. No, if you want utter madness, you have to look to EVE.
Humans, for all our pretensions, are monkeys, and monkeys are funny creatures. One or two of them might seem normal enough, but in isolation or small groups social animals aren't really their true selves. With their overdeveloped adrenal glands, numerous cognitive biases and a supreme faith in the rightness of that same flawed cognition, when you get them in groupings over a certain number hilarious things occur. What differentiates EVE from the other MMOs - and what creates the level of frothing madness - is the number of monkeys it manages to pack into one barrel.
In World of Warcraft, while there may be an obscene 11.5 million people running about as elves and orcs hitting monsters with swords and spells, those people are broken up into small groups of ten to twenty thousand per server. If you don't like your server, you can leave to another server, start anew, find a different social milieu. The game is also infamously newbie friendly, which is partly why it has gained such mainstream success; almost anyone can pick it up and play. The basic group unit in WoW is a guild between 20 and 100 people; the odd megaguild nonwithstanding, it's a grouping intimate enough that every monkey can get to know every other monkey, and the primary social activity involves groups of between five and 25. Even at this level, though, there's a blurring of perspective in the minds of people; sick days are called in from work to raid, personal hygiene is neglected, obsession with purple loot and intensely personal dramas around said loot occur.
By contrast, EVE takes a much smaller player base - perhaps 450,000 - but jams all these monkeys into one barrel, a barrel from which there is no escape - no 'other server' to flee to and begin anew. The learning curve in EVE might as well be vertical, despite all the efforts to make the game more newbie-friendly over the years; any sort of mistake usually results in you dying horribly and losing substantial assets, which are very limited when first playing the game. Additionally, more than any other MMO, EVE relies heavily on mathematics and spreadsheets in the player-run logistics and production aspects of the game. Given the violence, loss, and (horror of horrors) math, it is only a certain sort of of monkey who not only ascends the nightmarish and Darwinian learning curve, but finds the process entertaining enough to stick around and play for more than a week. So this is EVE, a galaxy filled with socially inept spreadsheet nerds on the one hand and obsessive, ambitious griefers on the other. Resources are limited and must be fought over, and the only way out is to quit entirely.
This is commentary on the game by The Mittani, and it is essentially dead on.Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Well, there's always Tabula Ra...Oh wait...
Edit: Eve was the game that introduced me to the idea of playing games and watching movies and TV shows on my computer at the same time. Okay, it actually introduced me to the idea of playing two games at once. Seriously. Eve is a game you can do anything else while playing.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I'd suggest waiting a few months, frankly. Bioware's The Old Republic, Champions Online, and DC Universe Online are all coming up.
I'm going to be very interested to see what Bioware can do with a MMORPG.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Thats like a nazi talking about "this is everything you need to know about Jews".
The argument that anyone who plays EVE has to be a socially inept nerd or an asshole to play is a gross overgeneralization and unfair to players like me or my group of friends who play more casually until our skills are up.
As for it being on a single server, technically there's 2, one for China one for everyone else (I hear they get free hookers). That is on one or many however is irrelevent that no matter what you'll find idiots everywhere, 98% of stuff you find on the internet is crap that WoW has a jillion servers doesnt make it suddenly immune to anomynous jerkass syndrome, EVE may only have 1 server but if someone bothers you, you can still move away by going to another system in the sector, only 5% of my time mining was I ever bothered by idiots and its easy to find places where its more like 1%.
If it weren't on one server itld be barren and desolate as they're be virtually no population density eve as it is seems like a timing thriving world that actually exists, WoW ruins the experience by making your achievements worthless as there's 150 other clone worlds where everything is exactly the same.
The learning curve isn't vertical either the really complicated stuff you wouldnt be able to fly or handle for months anyways due to cost and skill requirements and everything else the revamped tutorials are pretty good at telling you everything you need to know, if yuor one of those people who skips the tutorial in games (like I am) then who cares? I learned how to play by trial and error and fiddling around and look where I am, I own 2 freighters, several battlesips have 500 million isk in liquid funds and over 2 billion isk in assets a stones throw away from flying a carrier all with barely playing more then 5 hours a week.
If you don't like violence you can stay in safe areas if you do like pvp you can go in a sort of intermediatary transition pvp enabled part of the universe where its more newbie friendly (faction warfare) before transitioning to the hard stuff. And theres plenty of not dozens of guids/corperations always recruiting newbies, Goonswarm for example will take on anyone with a frigate.
While becomming a huge financial or combat success does depend a little on number crunching the stats of various modules, frankly stop being a hypocrite SO DOES WOW!!!! I have a friend who plays and when hes into it its like hearing someone talk about ship fittings except its "raid gear" this and that and omgz h4x0rz th4y n3rf3d sh@mans!
Seriously Samp, stop being a crybaby and suck it up, you don't feel like playing it anymore fine, I and no one else is forcing you. But stop being a douche and slandering it for anyone else who might take an interest in it. Your entire posts sounds like one massive piece of hater propoganda, its not a critical review being unbiased and analyzing its flaws and positive attributes its one long spiel of how much you think it sucks.
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So, um, in a nutshell: there is no such thing as a casual MMO, so you shouldn't try to find one.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
A Neverwinter Nights 2 persistent world servers are both free and pretty casual.
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quote: I and no one else is forcing you. But stop being a douche and slandering it for anyone else who might take an interest in it.
Blayne, a post you made a long time ago about Eve is what interested me in it. I like that you can do something else while playing. It seem like it might be a game I can play while studying or watching NetFlix late at night on my dual monitors.
It also has commerce, space battles, and a cool universe to explore.
However, it sounds too much like proselytizing or pimping for a game when you accuse a different perspective as coming from a "douche" and accusing "Samp" of slander. Ironically that supports Samprimary's observations.
Every game has a selection bias, and if a person's experiences with the players forms a general opinion and that opinion is stated, I don't think you should get worked up over it. Even if it is negative.
Edit: I asked for different perspective's and appreciate Samprimary's perspective as much as yours.
TomDavidson: Guild Wars was about as close to a casual MMORPG as I have found. My biggest gripe is that on the PvP mini map you can see enemy players. I like Mythics's way of having enemy players invisible on mini-maps. Mythic really does pvp right.
I have played many 5-15 minutes cathartic sessions in random arena's in Guild Wars.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I really enjoyed ATITD back when I played it. It certainly won't satisfy your PVP desire (no combat), but it's got economics and trading in spades.
Because of the way the game works (no levels; abilities are determined by the technologies uncovered by the game population as a whole and the tools/resources you have available), it's much easier to "keep up" with your guild even if you can only play rarely. They don't have to painstakingly help you level up to their rank; they just have to let you use the brickmaking machine they've already built, or what have you.
And you're not just freeloading--even if you only log on a few hours a week, that's still enough time to discover a nifty recipe that will help your guild out when you're not there.
It's sufficiently different from pretty much everything else on the market that it's really hard to say if you'll like it before you try. Download the free trial and give it a shot.
[I should add: I think they added some sort of "level-like" thing after I stopped playing to make the game less foreign to players of classic RPGs. But I don't think it changed the functionality I described above significantly.]
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
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I really liked ATITD the last time I played it, but the last time I looked into it, the game seemed to be dying off really bad.
I also wasn't really a huge fan of the new level system they put in during Tale 3, but I haven't tried Tale 4 yet to see how it is.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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The reason it sucks you in for your entire life is because there's just so much to DO! It has vast content.
And yes, there are trade skills. Ones you can make money from. (it's not SWG... but then again, what is?)
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Dungeon Runners is a slightly more-persistent [EDIT: than Diablo], and much more tongue-in-cheek, MMO, that is free to play (with ads), or 5 bucks a month to subscribe.
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: WoW is very casual friendly.
The reason it sucks you in for your entire life is because there's just so much to DO! It has vast content.
And yes, there are trade skills. Ones you can make money from. (it's not SWG... but then again, what is?)
Yes, I'd also have to suggest WoW as a great MMO that can easily be played casually. Most of the content before the level cap can be done solo, and a good chunk of the quests are well written and interesting.
Even at the higher ends, you can still go through all of the content at your own pace as long as you find a group of like minded people to do them with. All of the higher end content can be done with 10 people, so it shouldn't be too hard to find a group that suites you by the time you hit level 80.
The pvp, on the other hand, leaves a fair amount to be desired. PvP does exist in the game, but it is mostly second class as far as progression and content goes. If you do want to pvp, and don't mind the lack of reward, there are a few decent options. There's battlegrounds, which are mostly 15v15; arenas, which are ranked matches with brackets from 2v2 through 5v5; and world pvp if you're on a pvp server (I find it enjoyable, but it does have its frustrations).
Overall though, WoW is a PVE game, but if you don't mind that and are looking for a casual game, then you might want to check it out.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I used to play semi-hardcore, not anywhere near the real top tier players, but several hours a day. I then quit for a year, and came back with my wife and brother, and we pick 2-3 nights a week to play for several hours, and that's it.
It does lend itself well to casual playing, because you can make significant progress in a few hours, especially at early levels.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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FWIW, a lot of recent "WoW converts" to EQ2 have been saying that they've seen everything in the game, so they're trying something new.... and being blown away in that EQ2 has more than 2x the landmass, more dungeons, more raiding, more races, more classes, etc etc. Way more content in EQ2 than WoW. So they say -- I couldn't ever get in to WoW. Tried it 2x, managed about 10 days each time before uninstalling it.
Personally, I play EVE and EQ2 both. EVE when all I want is an hour or so of passing time, EQ2 if I've got some goal I'm working toward... yet even in EQ2 with a "goal" I can still log in for 30 minutes and feel like i've accomplished something, usually.
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I have to agree with EQ2: they continue to bring in more and more content. The latest "live update" added a boatload of new content and areas, including a raiding instance, and that was just an UPDATE. And they've had four expansions since its inception.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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EQ2 came out at pretty much the same time as WoW and I picked EQ2. I loved the first EQ and was anxious to get back into that world.
However the game bored me to tears. I enjoyed the trade skills but my class was completely unplayable. Before they fixed Breeze, that was all I did. I stood around and rebreezed people. When they made it last 2 minutes and I had time to do things in combat OTHER than Breeze people, I realized I had nothing to do. CC was pointless and I was out DPSed by... well, everyone.
I got to 50 and quit before the first expansion.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
I played original EQ and liked the backstory but its interesting that that reason why I didnt like it then is why I really got into D&D later, they essentially divided a wizard into 3 classes that did slightely different things, why couldnt they do 1 class that does everything to do with arcane magic? Then i read wizard in the PHB and was in love.
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quote:There is a jagged fissure of insanity which runs through the heart of the EVE playerbase, a kind of feverish bad crazy that you simply don't find in other online games.
Madness?
THIS- IS- EVE ONLINE!!! {kick}
quote:Thats like a nazi talking about "this is everything you need to know about Jews".
In fairness, I doubt most Nazis spend much time being Jews to get a feel for the thing.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: It's good to hear EQ2 is thriving.
EQ2 came out at pretty much the same time as WoW and I picked EQ2. I loved the first EQ and was anxious to get back into that world.
However the game bored me to tears. I enjoyed the trade skills but my class was completely unplayable. Before they fixed Breeze, that was all I did. I stood around and rebreezed people. When they made it last 2 minutes and I had time to do things in combat OTHER than Breeze people, I realized I had nothing to do. CC was pointless and I was out DPSed by... well, everyone.
I got to 50 and quit before the first expansion.
So were you an Illusionist or a Coercer? My main is a Coercer and it's so different now it's not even funny.
Both the 'chanters are in high demand -- groups like both but seem to favor coercers a little. raids like to take 1 coercer for the tank's group, and then 3 illusionists (1 for each other group). Soloing's easy too. Illusionists get a permanent pet as a copy of themselves. Doesn't do too much damage, but it likes to stun, stifle and mez a lot, so it's useful. and of course coercers can charm nearly any mob they want and do a lot more damage with it. . . of course with the chance of the charm breaking at any time and trying to eat you. Not that anyone charms in a group, but hey. . . . .
We also cast really fast so in short fights with the burst damage we can do now we can keep up with wizards in damage, though over time they eventually pull out ahead. But I don't raid, so I tend not to see those long fights. . . hehehe.
Anyway, if you feel up for it, they seem to run "come back for free" promos starting the end of April and lasting until June-ish anymore, so if you get an email about it. . feel free to come back in the promo period. Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Yeah, some of the new instances are impossible without a mezzer, unless you have a massively tricked out group.
As for raiding, my guild has very few illusionists or coercer, so sometimes I don't benefit from their buffs. As a ranger, I'll take an illusionist's "Illusionary Arm" any day.
A lot has changed in EQ2 as of late. Now it's not "the end" when you hit max level; there's always much more to do, to further progress your character (across achievement lines), get better gear, get fabled/mythical epic items (I just got my fabled epic), whole new zones, etc... It's actually quite fun.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Seriously Samp, stop being a crybaby and suck it up, you don't feel like playing it anymore fine, I and no one else is forcing you. But stop being a douche and slandering it for anyone else who might take an interest in it. Your entire posts sounds like one massive piece of hater propoganda, its not a critical review being unbiased and analyzing its flaws and positive attributes its one long spiel of how much you think it sucks.
1. Yuo are unintentionally hilarious when you ball up your fists and spittle at me. I mean it. It's like you're rewarding me unintentionally when you do this. They're almost worth intentionally provoking, so when you give them to me for free it's just amazing.
2. out of those articles, one was written by the mitanni and the other was an interview OF the mitanni and everything he said was accurate.
2 1/2. The Mitanni understands this game way, way better than you.
3. It is also not a shpiel about how much I (or the mitanni, in this case) think EvE sucks. That you assume this means either that you didn't actually read them, or you're overall just being clueless about EvE again.
Because — and this is a fairly straightforward reason — The Mittani actually LOVES eve and is essentially at this point the game's most powerful player. I am MASSIVELY ENTERTAINED by his stories about EvE and how badly he raped BoB and the various kenzoku barbies. What I posted is something you can read to figure out whether or not, in the end, you're going to want to play EvE. With plenty of accuracy.
So, you know, read up on what I'm actually saying 'afore you get your fanboy rage on.
Thanks in advance, kiddo.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
And yet you said "stay away/don't touch" EVE.
So either your insane, or lying to cover your ass.
And no, I am not clueless about EVE, regardless if the Mitani claims to love EVE or not hes not doing it any favours, it is hardly an accurate representation of EVE, the Daedalus Project, you know that organization dedicated to gathering conformable statistics I think is more trustworthy in this regard then someone who thinks bad is good and this accentuates the bad.
I've not known a single person personally who I have played with who actually have fallen under the stereotypes described above and statistics show this isn't much the case either according to an actual research paper I once wrote looking at it from a Libertarian viewpoint.
Not that there aren't idiots, griefers and assholes, the point is they exist in everygame, just the Something Awful forums do a better job at advertising EVE's then any other manages to do.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: And yet you said "stay away/don't touch" EVE.
So either your insane, or lying to cover your ass.
Or, just an idea: My personal recommendation is not contradictory to 'these articles are p. much a good way to determine if you want to play'
quote:And no, I am not clueless about EVE, regardless if the Mitani claims to love EVE or not hes not doing it any favours, it is hardly an accurate representation of EVE, the Daedalus Project, you know that organization dedicated to gathering conformable statistics I think is more trustworthy in this regard then someone who thinks bad is good and this accentuates the bad.
...
The Mitanni is the leader of Goonswarm.
You know, the org that just bust up BoB and took Delve?
The most powerful, most peopled faction in the game?
Ringin' any bells there?
mmmmmmkay
DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO RE-RAIL
I know that both Warhammer and Age of Conan got stuck in a netherworld of suck, but EQ2 recovered? Really?
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Riiiiight and do you know what Goonswarm sets out to do? *Pat Pat* Its okay, not everyone is as well read as I am, I'll give you a hint, I referred to it in my previous post.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I know that both Warhammer and Age of Conan got stuck in a netherworld of suck, but EQ2 recovered? Really?
I know they just did a big advertising push ("We're still in the game..."); to what degree that spells health, it's harder to say. Companies are notoriously shy with information on the size of their MMORPG customer bases, excepting of course Bliz itself, which has every reason to crow their numbers to the rafters.
I'm suspecting Champions and DC are, alas, going to be the death knell for City of Heroes' increasingly sparse servers. A pity, as they've actually done a pretty good job in continuously releasing new, (mostly) free content. Failing to fix whatever disagreement their program has with Vista video drivers has not done them any favors, I'm sure.
Still, I guess they can say thanks that they're not, say, The Matrix Online.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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CoH/CoV had some real chutzpah. Their decline into irrelevancy pretty much acted as a good indicator of the perilous nature of modern MMO development. Nearly no developer comes even CLOSE to doing as good a job as CoH did. Nearly no developer pours that real sort of intent and creativity and connective spirit into a game. And even CoH/CoV dwindles into obscurity and caters to an increasingly minuscule population as it and the rest of NCSoft, essentially, crater.
World of Warcraft is enforcing a quality standard on the medium that very, very few can ever meet well enough to hold a substantially profitable populace. If CoH/CoV is a victim of that, it pretty much shows how precipitous the industry is.
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: The Mitanni is the leader of Goonswarm.
You know, the org that just bust up BoB and took Delve?
The most powerful, most peopled faction in the game?
Ringin' any bells there?
mmmmmmkay
Interestingly, it turns out that he started writing a column about eve, and it makes for a fascinating read. You can find it here.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Riiiiight and do you know what Goonswarm sets out to do?
Compete.
And they play the game the way the game was meant to be played: no holds barred, use every trick to win.
quote:Its okay, not everyone is as well read as I am
Blayne on EvE: "You cannot buy ISK"
Did I say it was physically impossible to purchase ISK illegally? Or did I say that there was to my mind an unhealthy high chance of getting caught and all you illegal goodies removed? If you assume the former then your being deliberately deluded at best and deliberately antagonistic at worst.
No, Goonswarm is founded by members of SomethingAwful forums who are some of the internets most infamous trollers, they're entire purpose is not to compete but to break the games they choose to play with by promoting griefing and generally omnipurpose asshatery.
Not that there aren't a significant number of players in Goonfleet who are decent players and play to compete and its probably thanks to these players that they haven't collapsed or been hit by the ban stick if any of their somewhat conspiratorial stories have any grounds to them it seems like CCP judging by Mittani's and his predecessors over the years has had been going after them for quite sometime.
You continue to claim I am ignorant without proof that such ignorance exists.
# Griefer. Goons are (in)famous for joining online games not to play them but to find ways to destroy them. Although some of their capers have shown genius.
* Goonswarm in the EVE Online MMO is a good example of this, having very nearly taken down one of the biggest player empires in the game. When that failed, they went on to cause tens of thousands of dollars of Real Life damage (based on Gold Farming exchange rates) by suicide attacking other players in just a week in their infamous Jihadswarm campaign. o Later, they ended up succeeding in taking down said alliance, as well as stealing their alliance name and giving it to their mining/forum trolling alts. o Incidentally, Goonswarm is one of the very largest alliances in EVE, if not the largest. Without getting into coalitions, vassals, etc.
I should point out that "being competitive" through skill and better management of corp resources is nowhere near that Goonswarm actually did to BoB which was infiltrate/recruit/turn members into/of the alliance, got/gained/used permissions, and then dissolved the alliance.
If you think thats skill and not the aforementioned malicious griefing then theres no hope for you.
posted
And oh my god Mittani is an idiot. "Almost every piece of strategic advice you find on the internet is completely worthless. Every day, I inevitably see some EVE forum denizen bleating about Sun Tzu, a famous WWII general, or the latest overwrought management screed (14 Steps To Be An Effective 4 Hour Rich Dad Millionaire, et al), perhaps hoping that some of this received wisdom will filter through the ether and save their internet spaceship alliance from whatever specific fix they happen to be in. It never works, of course, because Sun Tzu wasn't writing about a drug-addled Icelander's idea of an internet spaceship game. Don't even get me started on the WWII analogies. Never trust the wisdom of anyone talking about what Rommel would do if he had a fleet of sniping battleships at his beck and call.
I've had to sift through piles of such offal while reading other people's forums - honorless spying sort that I am - and there is one principle that has consistently held true in EVE, and yet I've never seen it popularized. Here it is: "Wars are not won by the winner; they are lost by the loser". In other words, between roughly equal forces, things are usually not won through the winning side deploying some stunning tactic or beautiful offense, but rather the loser making a critical error and the winner identifying the mistake and exploiting it. Until the 'oops' moment, the strategic situation trends towards stalemate. As an example of this in action, let's look to the war in Delve. "
Obviously he has never actually read Sun Tzu or he'ld realize that what he said is largely a paraphrasation of what Sun Tzu actually SAYS.
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this is too fun, it's like argue about pretend spaceships time take 3
quote:Did I say it was physically impossible to purchase ISK illegally?
When you say both "you cannot buy isk" followed by "yes I am right you cannot buy isk, buying isk gets your account negative what you bought in the red, I am using cannot in the same sense as you cannot cross the street you will die." you are wrong with the 'you cannot buy isk' part.
I also know what you were trying to say, which is 'isk buying, while something you can do, is too risky' and that's untrue as well.
quote:If you think thats skill and not the aforementioned malicious griefing then theres no hope for you.
I am going to explain some things to you.
Ever since the folding of Lotka Volterra, the factions of Goonswarm have been out-strategizing the various bob factions, to the extent that the only thing still promoting BoB's general viability as a 0.0 corp was cynojammers.
This was, in fact, what set the general conditions for success in Delve; BoB held the most desirable territory, and no matter how much tactical and numerical advantage you hold, it is presently (as in, 'residual tech-II dominance' what with Apocrypha 1.1 now out) impossible to crack sov 4 + cyno against a properly titaned enemy; a condition which had stagnated 0.0 sovereignty wars. BoB had descended into complete tactical inferiority versus the goons. This had been evident in every sortie between the swarm and -AaA-, eo, etc.
BoB's turncoat also discovered that BoB had, in general, a more hostile environment for allies and a more disdainful, rigidly hierarchical structure.
And let's set something up straight, right now: griefing is part of the game. And it's a very minor portion of goonswarm's overall strategy. They utilize it because they utilize everything in their power to break enemies' willingness to fight them. More importantly, they are respectful of allegiance and really, REALLY good to allies and associates.
I have consistently been amused by the fact that I know more about EvE than you do and have always known more about EvE since the Kugutsumen drama, which makes your hostility so .. misplaced?
quote:Not that there aren't a significant number of players in Goonfleet who are decent players and play to compete
1. which would include the mitanni, and
2. which is what I said, thanks for backing me up!
quote:And oh my god Mittani is an idiot. "Almost every piece of strategic advice you find on the internet is completely worthless. Every day, I inevitably see some EVE forum denizen bleating about Sun Tzu, a famous WWII general, or the latest overwrought management screed
It's you, huh. He was talking about you.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I'm sure you guys are having fun, but let me try to clarify something.
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: And yet you said "stay away/don't touch" EVE.
So either your insane, or lying to cover your ass.
I'm guessing that Samp told lem not to touch EVE because lem is looking for a casual MMO. That doesn't mean Samp thinks EVE is a bad game.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Since I have virtually no publicity in the EVEverse being only the simply miner and mission runner that I am, and only a part of a relatively minor 0 sec alliance it is impossible he would be talking about me but my point still stands, he is an idiot who obviously has never read the book or else he would see the blatant irony in his post. Irony that obviously went over your head as you undoubtedly never read it either.
Next my hostility is not misplaced I've been playing since 2004 and your being a self righteous pompous jerk who won't stop trying to find ways to keep insulting me and for repeatedly misconstruing my words, deliberately misconstruing my words as you have just admitted that you knew exactly what I was trying to say.
Greifing is part of the game yes, but not so much to the point it is unnecessarily cruel to new players who are willing to commit to the game, theres many small corps and smaller expanding alliances willing to take in newbies to give them a helping hand.
So not only is his article wrong in the Darwinian Nature of EVE, its only Darwinian in the vaguest sense of unpreparedness, but your entire side of the argument here is nonsensical, either EVE is a good game worth playing or its not, so I cant help but be amused that now you've somehow managed to wind up defending not only Goonswarm but the game itself by extension.
So either your a frustrated misanthrope who actually does like the game but is just putting on airs to piss off other people who do, actually I can't come up with the or, theres nothing to explain your somehow misdirected hostility towards me or the game and yet account for your knowledge of it. Now whats really pissing you off, so far your not making any sense at all or coherent in your argument other then your baseless attacks on my person.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by twinky: I'm sure you guys are having fun, but let me try to clarify something.
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: And yet you said "stay away/don't touch" EVE.
So either your insane, or lying to cover your ass.
I'm guessing that Samp told lem not to touch EVE because lem is looking for a casual MMO. That doesn't mean Samp thinks EVE is a bad game.
That would be reasonable if it wasn't for the fact he hasn't actually stated this and previous arguments over this hasn't given any other impression that he got frustrated with whatever mechanics was a problem way back when such as lag, which if I recall was recently fixed or at least vastly improved. I'll apologize for my outright hostility if this is the case. Since I also agree its not something you want to play just casually unless you have 2 monitors and dont mind paying 14$ a month for 6 months to a year before the really good stuff happens.
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: It's good to hear EQ2 is thriving.
EQ2 came out at pretty much the same time as WoW and I picked EQ2. I loved the first EQ and was anxious to get back into that world.
However the game bored me to tears. I enjoyed the trade skills but my class was completely unplayable. Before they fixed Breeze, that was all I did. I stood around and rebreezed people. When they made it last 2 minutes and I had time to do things in combat OTHER than Breeze people, I realized I had nothing to do. CC was pointless and I was out DPSed by... well, everyone.
I got to 50 and quit before the first expansion.
So were you an Illusionist or a Coercer? My main is a Coercer and it's so different now it's not even funny.
Both the 'chanters are in high demand -- groups like both but seem to favor coercers a little. raids like to take 1 coercer for the tank's group, and then 3 illusionists (1 for each other group). Soloing's easy too. Illusionists get a permanent pet as a copy of themselves. Doesn't do too much damage, but it likes to stun, stifle and mez a lot, so it's useful. and of course coercers can charm nearly any mob they want and do a lot more damage with it. . . of course with the chance of the charm breaking at any time and trying to eat you. Not that anyone charms in a group, but hey. . . . .
We also cast really fast so in short fights with the burst damage we can do now we can keep up with wizards in damage, though over time they eventually pull out ahead. But I don't raid, so I tend not to see those long fights. . . hehehe.
Anyway, if you feel up for it, they seem to run "come back for free" promos starting the end of April and lasting until June-ish anymore, so if you get an email about it. . feel free to come back in the promo period.
I was an illusionist. You're making me wish there were two of me so I could play both WoW and EQ2!
(or maybe more than two of me. I could be the whole group! I'd stay up all night playing with myself!)
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:That would be reasonable if it wasn't for the fact he hasn't actually stated this and previous arguments over this hasn't given any other impression that he got frustrated with whatever mechanics was a problem way back when such as lag, which if I recall was recently fixed or at least vastly improved.
And it's... Blayne, with the triple negative! {applause}
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I am still looking for feedback from Pirates of the Burning Sea. Anyone here played it or know some one with an experience with that game?
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Blayne, all you have done is make sure I never play EvE. Good job.
quote:Originally posted by lem: I am still looking for feedback from Pirates of the Burning Sea. Anyone here played it or know some one with an experience with that game?
That game looks frickin' awesome...............
Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008
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quote:That would be reasonable if it wasn't for the fact he hasn't actually stated this and previous arguments over this hasn't given any other impression that he got frustrated with whatever mechanics was a problem way back when such as lag, which if I recall was recently fixed or at least vastly improved. I'll apologize for my outright hostility if this is the case. [/QB]
Bolding mine.
Blayne, I've pointed out these quotes to you. These are quotes by me. I have had to remind you before that these are quotes by me.
quote:I don't actively dislike eve. Even though I have no personal interest in playing the game anymore and have not for a long time, it's one of those games that's fun to hear stories about.
quote:Eve is a great game, it's just absolutely ruthless and at the low end is a tedious exercise in ratting and mining. The high end can be exciting, if only because practically everything you own is subject to destruction and pillaging in a competitive, no-holds-barred environment that favors and rewards trickery and cruelty. It is a perfect game to watch other neckbeards jockey about in. It is not for me, or most people.
You have either missed them, or actively don't want to believe that I enjoy following eve and would rather paint me as a two-dimensional buffoon using two-dimensional buffoonery.
Eve is not casual. Eve is 'get rich or die mining.' I would have to be an idiot to recommend it given the criteria in the OP.
You are also being ridiculously silly if you hate me because I pointed out real complaints with the game when they really existed. If I mentioned I quit EvE / disliked EvE's gameplay due to lag problems when there were lag problems and had seen fleet battles shut down due to 15+min loading screens, it makes no sense to wave away that complaint by saying that it no longer exists now.
quote:Since I also agree its not something you want to play just casually unless you have 2 monitors and dont mind paying 14$ a month for 6 months to a year before the really good stuff happens.
Not long ago you tried to tell everyone that EvE has no grind and is totally exciting always. And then before that you told everyone that it was boring. Your story on EvE keeps changing.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: Yeah, some of the new instances are impossible without a mezzer, unless you have a massively tricked out group.
As for raiding, my guild has very few illusionists or coercer, so sometimes I don't benefit from their buffs. As a ranger, I'll take an illusionist's "Illusionary Arm" any day.
A lot has changed in EQ2 as of late. Now it's not "the end" when you hit max level; there's always much more to do, to further progress your character (across achievement lines), get better gear, get fabled/mythical epic items (I just got my fabled epic), whole new zones, etc... It's actually quite fun.
The dirge's battle cry is nearly as good, though I can't remember if the flurry chance is applied to ranged autoattack or just melee (been a few months since I played), if it's the latter, then there's almost 0 chance you'll get it, I suppose, it being much better in the hands of the tank (till the fighter revamp, if it's still in the works), a rogue or an assassin.
One thing about EQ2, it's very easy to get sucked in and play far more than you want to. My gf and I gave up on that little hobby when it became too much of a time commitment, since we decided we couldn't see ourselves dropping to more casual within the game. We play LoTRO now, which is more casual friendly (to us), but I guess you (OP) don't really want to play that one again.
Posts: 609 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
"Not long ago you tried to tell everyone that EvE has no grind and is totally exciting always. And then before that you told everyone that it was boring. Your story on EvE keeps changing. "
I dont see this as inconsistent, basically you can get by without grinding, but it takes alot of effort and commitment. Seriously, think a little on it.
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quote:I dont see this as inconsistent, basically you can get by without grinding, but it takes alot of effort and commitment. Seriously, think a little on it.
Not grinding, but takes a lot of effort and commitment. To be polite this sounds like contradiction. Could you elucidate?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Effort and commitment, via say trading in stocks and equipment, its a commitment because it will take some time to get the necessary skills and effort because it involves fly around all over the place to find goods to peddle away, this differs from grinding say flying the same route over and over because it can be combined with manufacturing ie making your own ships, and market maniulation through the constant adjusting of buy and sell orders.
The ingame completely player driven market is very complex and through it alone its possible to make a large amount of money, doing things like mining and mission running could speed up the process but assuming you planned ahead and knew wha you were doing unneeded.
And then theres those who through effort and commitment and a little luck make a living completely from piracy or anti piracy ie making a living off of the wrechs the enemy leaves behind starting only with the frigates you start with. Although you might need a group and know what time zone is the low point in people being online.
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