Oh, wait... Maybe that's tacky. What's the point of this? Whatever the point may be, there is a classier and more productive way of discussing the issue.
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posted
If the point is to point out the tackiness of others, reproducing it exactly makes you part of the problem of the low class problem.
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posted
It's kind of amusing to see such a blunt, uncensored headline. Since it's a Shanghai newspaper, I'm left to wonder whether the sensitivities that it seems to ignore are even relevant to the locals. I don't know whether they'd find it tacky or funny or neutral.
I mean, really, "Childhood Obesity Epidemic Worsens" with subtitle "Experts blame fast food, lack of exercise" denotes pretty much the same thing.
Evidently we don't like saying "fat kids". "Fat butts" is probably slightly worse, since it calls to mind the body image problems likely to affect a lot of kids.
But in Shanghai, I have no idea if there's negative connotations to "fat kid" or "fat butt." It'd sort of surprise me if the same nuances of political correctness dominated there. (ETA: I also don't know if the Chinese kids are subject to the same sort of hardbody-obsessed, fat-mocking pop culture that kids in the US are.)
This is an interesting example. I'd like to know whether this reflects a cultural difference in a predictable way, or if it's just something weird and tacky and arbitrary.
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: ... Since it's a Shanghai newspaper, I'm left to wonder whether the sensitivities that it seems to ignore are even relevant to the locals ...
To aid your musing, I guess I should have pointed out that Shanghai Daily is one of a set of "X Daily" English-language newspapers run by the Chinese government aimed at tourists, expats, or Chinese students trying to learn English as opposed to your regular locals.
Assuming that the China Daily staff is similar (Or that depicted in Red China Blues is similar), "Most of the paper's editorial staff are still Chinese, whose English reports are 'polished' by a small group of expatriate editors employed on short-term contracts."
That said, cultural attitudes on directly addressing fatness are certainly different.
posted
If we were talking about smoking rather than obesity, would people be half as worried about being sensitive to peoples feelings?
Obesity is the number one health problem in the US and with very rare exceptions of metabolic disorders, its a health problem caused by the lifestyle people choose. I think we need to be less sensitive to fat peoples feelings not more.
I'm not saying we should ostracize people or make cruel jokes, but sometimes the truth needs to be said even if it hurts peoples feelings. These people are choosing a lifestyle thats killing them and costing the rest of us a ton of money. Is it mean to tell and alcoholic they need to stop drinking? Is it mean to tell a drug addict they need to stop using?
I would note that this article didn't make any jokes about fat people or suggest that they be mistreated. What some have called rude and mean here is just a blunt statement of an undeniable truth. When people have chosen a self destructive lifestyle, being blunt about is sometimes the nicest thing to do.
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quote:Obesity is the number one health problem in the US
No, it isn't. Less healthy lifestyles are the number one health problem in the US, and increased weight is in most cases just an indicator. Increased weight in and of itself rarely causes health problems until it reaches well above even the obesity cutoff. The best advice for most people who are overweight would not be to target weight loss (which is rarely feasible beyond relatively small amounts), but to focus on healthier eating and achieving basic exercise goals. That may result in weight loss in some individuals, but will better accomplish the primary goal of improving health. Focusing on calorie differential rarely helps people keep weight off, and tends to result in people giving up the healthy activities because they don't feel it helps with their weight, instead of maintaining the healthy activities because they do help with their health.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: If we were talking about smoking rather than obesity, would people be half as worried about being sensitive to peoples feelings?
The parallel does not work. You could compare smoking to overeating, or not exercising, but obesity is not a behavior, it's a symptom.
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posted
Rabbit: you might check again. While numerous places have reported those sources as identifying obesity as the number one health risk, the sources themselves talk about things that lead to obesity being the number one health risk, as I described.
quote:No, it isn't. Less healthy lifestyles are the number one health problem in the US, and increased weight is in most cases just an indicator.
Not according to the Surgeon General, the CDC and WHO.
I'm a little disappointed by this response. What do these organizations say to do about obesity? Exercise more and eat healthier food, right? Change their lifestyle. I think the point was germane.
I believe that if you compare people of the same weight and the same body fat percentage, the one who exercises more and eats less junk has lower health risks.
(To belabor the point, I don't think the CDC and WHO would recommend liposuction to reduce health risks.)
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posted
It might be more complicated than that in causes of severe obesity, other issues could be at play.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Healthwise of other people? No. This stupid, mean thread? Yes.
Riiight. Stupid and mean because it quotes something and points attention to something you don't like.
It's not that I even disagree with you in not liking it. That you focus your energy on talking about how stupid and mean it is, given your own inclinations, is a problem you don't seem to understand.
Hey, try this! Talk about why the article is not a good thing. Then you might be doing something remotely productive. Because the (granted, much easier) fight your picking is worthless to everyone involved.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
The fat concept still doesn't carry the exact same insinuations in China that it does here. Attitudes are changing fast as exposure to Western culture continues to increase but at least traditionally being fat wasn't necessarily a bad thing, it often demonstrated ones access to plenty of food and therefore was a symbol of a high social status.
This guy, is still routinely seen all over China, (his ear lobes are awesome btw).
I was not that uncommon for me to come across a little fat kid who was routinely called 小胖子 or (Little Fatty) people poked fun at their body size, but so did they.
I think it has to do with physicality, my entire time as a missionary I was routinely called "Big Nose" in the native dialect, all the foreigners were. My then tall skinny frame was routinely laughed at, my balding head was wide open for ribbing, as was my grasp of the Chinese language.
People are expected to not take themselves so seriously, but this aspect of Chinese culture seems to be disappearing. Of course there are higher strung folks who you wouldn't dream of calling fat, but there are still plenty of places where a fat person can expect people to exclaim, "Oh he's very fat!" It's about the same thing as seeing an Asian who happens to be very tall.
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quote: I would note that this article didn't make any jokes about fat people or suggest that they be mistreated. What some have called rude and mean here is just a blunt statement of an undeniable truth.
Because total, blunt honesty isn't insulting, it's just honest?
C'mon, Rabbit. This is not just a question of medical facts here, you're also talking about a social angle-whether or not something is an insult. And socially speaking, unadulterated 100% honesty sometimes is insulting. That's just the way it is. Lines such as 'sit on fat butts', for example.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: ... People are expected to not take themselves so seriously, but this aspect of Chinese culture seems to be disappearing ...
Sadly, probably true.
On the fat issue though, I wouldn't overstate how quickly attitudes are changing. In a country where the majority of people still have difficulty finding an adequate diet let alone an excessive one, it will take time to stigmatize fatness in the same way we do in the West (and this is assuming that we actually want this).
The Shanghaiist article linked to the OP as "Fat China: Special Report" goes a bit into the factors and this reversal. So while obesity is a lower class issue here, in China it is still the province of the middle and upper classes.
That said, along the lines of Buddha, it might be worth examining some of the larger male action stars that haven't crossed over to Hollywood in quite the same way as say Jackie Chan or Chow Yun-Fat.
Sammo Hung did really well in part because he *doesn't* look like a lean mean action hero. Lam Suet is another fun example.
These are actors that (while obviously not immune to fat jokes) are largely played straight as action heroes. I think their counterparts here are more difficult to find.
posted
Orincoro, don't be an idiot. If my post is useless, your posts is beyond useless and is simply wanking. That's creepy.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Orincoro, don't be an idiot. If my post is useless, your posts is beyond useless and is simply wanking. That's creepy.
So that means your next post was wasted to the third power times infinity plus one! OH SNAP! :Burn:
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