posted
I've had an idea for a fantasy world rolling around in my head for a few years - and have had several stops and starts on novels and short stories within it.
It was originally conceptualized to be a .pdf roleplaying game, which means during my initial brainstorming phase I focused far more on world building and rich storytelling background than I did on character or plot.
Given that, I have the opportunity to either write it as "high fantasy" where all the characters are native to this world, or "crossover fantasy" where the main character(s) have been thrust into a new world and must learn to cope with it.
I'm of two minds on this, as I have plots spinning down both paths in my head.
The original concept was built in such a way that roleplaying characters could "fall" into the new world, so I've already considered many issues that would arise from such a phenomenon. However, the world itself is rich enough to exist on its own with its own characters, too.
I know crossover fantasy can sometimes be looked down upon, as it can easily be done badly if the author isn't careful. Then again, high fantasy isn't immune to that problem, either.
Does anyone have strong feelings one way or the other?
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posted
Not really. Either way can work fine and you haven't given us any details that would make a difference.
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Blayne Bradley
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Erfworld is a good example of Crossover Fantasy and to some extent the Melancholy of Haurhi Suzumiya. I like Crossover Fantasy in the way that it actually is escapist fantasy in contrast to High Fantasy which is more like reading a story in contrast to substituting yourself in it as an observer/silent bob.
I'm currently working on something like this a D&D Homebrew setting I intend to write books in, and a webcomic that deals with some crossover with it.
TV Tropes could give some good hints on the whole ascended fanboy tropes.
Build the world and then worry about characters.
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posted
I tend to prefer high fantasy, though crossover can work. In my highly unrigorous opinion, I've noticed crossover fantasy falling into offputting issues more frequently.
One thing I've noticed is that there can sometimes be too much exposition of the setting in these sorts of stories. Essentially, you have this large intricate world that the author wants to show off, and a character who doesn't know the world placed in company with those who do. In that situation, I imagine that it's a huge temptation to simply sit down and spend a lot of page space telling the rea^H^H^H character all about it. This can and has been done elegantly, but it's a risk.
Of course, this is an issue to an extent even in high fantasy, but the familiarity of the characters with the world acts as a natural limiter to this.
There's also the problem of what role the crossover character will play. The "chosen one" or "coming of age" tropes are very overplayed. Again, there's nothing stopping these from being used well. They generally became cliche because they were used enjoyably, but I've seen it drag stories down more often than it helps.
If you do end up liking the idea of a crossover, can I suggest one version I haven't seen much of? I haven't seen much crossovers between pure steampunk and pure high fantasy worlds. Oh sure, I can think of a number where fantasy and steampunk element coexisted, but off the top of my head I can't recall any examples of a good story where folks from a steampunk setting were dropped into high fantasy. To my mind, anyways, it seems like it could be an interesting combination.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
First, I'd like to second Blayne's statement that Erfworld is an amazing story that showcases a lot of interesting techniques. (You can start reading at Erfworld.com)
I'm a huge fan of creating worlds designed to work within a particular medium (or choosing media designed to maximize the power of your story). I'd think a lot about how you intend to tell your story and what you intend your audience to take away from it. One problem I see is stories where all the interesting things are about the geopolitics and magic systems, then try and throw in some characters, but the characters are obviously tacked on. (Less common is a good character idea that was stuck into a random world that didn't make sense).
The usual ideal is to find compelling characters that grow naturally out of their surrounding universe. But if you honestly don't care much about your characters and would rather showcase your world ideas, perhaps try setting up a story/character designed specifically for that. A good example is Tales of Magisterium University, at talesofmu.com. The character is a student a college in a magical world that has progressed logically to a "modern" era. It's sort of like Harry Potter but designed explicitly for adults (no randomly funny names that exist purely to appeal to kids). While the main character (Mackenzie, a half demon) IS extremely interesting, a major portion of the story is her going to classes where the history of the world and philosophy of magic is continuously explained. And it's fascinating enough that I'd be perfectly happy to read about it even without the character attached.
quote:I haven't seen much crossovers between pure steampunk and pure high fantasy worlds.
I'm assuming by this point FlyingCow's world is already fairly established, so radically changing the genre isn't like to happen.
(However, it just so happens I'm working on a group project wherein a Steampunk empire ends up discovering a world steeped in Australian mythology, with spirits and magic and Dreamtime and whatnot. Perhaps not the high fantasy you were implying but something similar)
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posted
The original world was designed in such a way that all the inhabitants were (at some point) outsiders. However, some of the groups "fell" into the world so many generations ago that they have no memory of the worlds they came from save in myth.
There are several competing groups, each having found niches to occupy in the new landscape, and each having come from an entirely different "home" world.
In this sense, a steampunk crossover wouldn't be hard to do at all, given the right story, but I'm not an avid reader of that genre (save perhaps Girl Genius) and that interests me less than a real-world crossover would.
Ironically, I'm generally more character focused than anything when I write, and the world is more of a secondary thought. Writing freelance for White Wolf forced me out of that, and made me concentrate on interesting worlds where any number of compelling characters could live and interact - it was up to the customer to provide the character and story.
So I'm coming at this story from an angle I usually don't - normally the character and story come first, and I fill in the world next. The problem is, when I was building this world, I developed so many character and story ideas that it's hard picking just one.
Really, I think I'm spoiled for choice. But the highest level decision at the moment is whether I maintain an insular world where everything happens within it, or whether I maintain a world with some sort of permeable border that exists in the same universe as our own.
I'm interested in any discussion around this topic, as it may bring out reasons to go one way or the other that I hadn't thought of.
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posted
Didn't Raymond Feist do something like this in his Midkemia books? I remember really disliking the parts in the second world.
The problem with crossover worlds, where both are secondary worlds (i.e. not based in our reality), is that you (may) have to learn two different sets of rules. That is a big task to ask of your readers.
Crossovers between this (the real) world and the secondary world are easier to manage because the reader doesn't have to be trained in understanding what the original world is all about.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I figure, if I do anything with crossover, it would either be involving contemporary characters from our own world or else involve a crossover of worlds that happened so long ago that the "old world" is no longer anything more than myth.
In the first instance, the crossover would be a major plot point from the very early going. In the second, it would be something hinted at and discovered along the journey of the characters through the plot.
The only problem with the latter is that it actually forces the reveal of the crossover to be more closely tied with the ultimate climax/resolution of the story, I think.
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quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Didn't Raymond Feist do something like this in his Midkemia books? I remember really disliking the parts in the second world.
The problem with crossover worlds, where both are secondary worlds (i.e. not based in our reality), is that you (may) have to learn two different sets of rules. That is a big task to ask of your readers.
Crossovers between this (the real) world and the secondary world are easier to manage because the reader doesn't have to be trained in understanding what the original world is all about.
Yeah, but I felt those books were quite interesting and loved them. I found the later books, which were set in Kelwan, with very little crossover to Mikademia, were better written. Janny Wurts wrote them along with Feist, and I think she writes better in a lot of ways so I enjoyed them more.
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posted
I think I'm going to have sort of a hybrid approach.
It will be high fantasy in that all the characters will have been born in the fantasy world(and even their parents, and their grandparents will have been born there). The plot will not cross borders with our world, or any others.
It will be crossover in the sense that all of the characters will know that their ancestors arrived there mysteriously/magically some generations ago, and that as much as they have adopted this new world as their own, they are not truly native to it.
There will not be anyone living who "remembers" their previous world, short of what they have been told in stories. They will maintain their identities as people who feel they are not "from" there, even though they have "gone native" so to speak. Some may even harbor false hope that there may be some way "back" - though I don't think I'll make this a plot point.
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posted
I would recommend you make it science fiction. Would that be doable? I've liked only a few of the fantasy novels I've read.
Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien The Earthsea Cycle by Ursula K. LeGuin
I can't think of any more.
So if you can make it fantasy, and make it as good as the two series above, then I'll like it. Otherwise, I'd make it science fiction. There's lots of SF that I love.
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quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: I would recommend you make it science fiction. Would that be doable? I've liked only a few of the fantasy novels I've read.
Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien The Earthsea Cycle by Ursula K. LeGuin
I can't think of any more.
So if you can make it fantasy, and make it as good as the two series above, then I'll like it. Otherwise, I'd make it science fiction. There's lots of SF that I love.
I recommend not changing what you've envisioned on the general advice of a single individual whose complaint is genre oriented.
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posted
He asked my opinion, so I gave it. It's up to him if he wants to take my advice. I assume if it's useful to him then he'll take it and if not then he won't.
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No, it won't be science fiction, unfortunately. It won't even be science fantasy. I would like to think it would be as good as Earthsea - but I have to write it first! Science fiction is not my strength, I don't believe.
Actually, Scott, if you remember the D&D campaign I ran for a hot minute, it would have ultimately ended up in this fantasy world... but I never manged to get you guys there.
Now that I've got a basic concept of the world mechanic, I'm trying to figure out target audience.
Part of me wants to write it in a YA model - in the vein of Beyond the Deepwoods. Part of me wants to write it in a more standard model - in the vein of the first three books of the Wheel of Time.
I don't know if I really need to decide on this consciously, though. JK Rowling managed to write books that transcended that distinction, as did CS Lewis. I suppose I'll just write and see what comes out.
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