Topic: Fall of Soviet Empire analogous to the Fall of the American empire?
Blayne Bradley
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posted
This was a funny clip on the Daily Show basically the comparisons are such and such:
1. Both had their economy in tatters. 2. Arrogant on the world seen with few friends left. 3. Stuck in Afghanistan for years. 4. Charismatic leader who came from nowhere who promised change and reform who won the nobel peace prize.
Hrrrm... What really made it funny was the *oh crap awkward silence* that followed it.
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posted
I think it's fair to say that there is a bit of a difference between having had a 5% drop in nominal GDP, with lots of idle capacity; and having an economy which cannot supply right-handed gloves to the masses, because the glove factory could more easily reach its quota by producing only left-handed gloves. To use the same phrase in describing both is disingenuous to the point of dishonesty. When American workers are queuing for hours on end to get meat, milk, and right-handed gloves, then you can compare the two.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Or when 27 year olds can be covered on their parents insurance, McDonald's part-time workers get 5 paid sick days off and full benefits, students get passing grades for effort, the last place team gets the same trophy, society demonizes the successful producers while dumping billions into failures they can now control....Left gloves are everywhere. They waited in line for meat, milk and gloves because they weren't being produced by evil corporations lead by big bonus CEO's. When government propping up of losers drives out the competition, we'll be queuing for Chevy hybrids and doctor visits.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote: Isn't that another socialist, anti-freedom, handout-to-the-poor program?
Isn't that a misdirected anger post that would have been a better response to one of malanthrop's misguided missives? Edited to add alliteration...
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Probably. I am annoyed at the attitude that poor people are less deserving.
I don't see the difference it would make to malanthrop, though, whether the McDonald's worker and her children are getting help via SCHIP or through another government program.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Not when cuts to SCHIP are common. It all depends on which state you live in.
I need a break from work, so I'll take on Malanthrop's list of national Sins:
"when 27 year olds can be covered on their parents insurance," compared to 27 year olds being unable to get insurance do to pre-existing conditions.
Let me know if I'm wrong, but this is about one of the proposals under one of the health care bills in Congress. Yeah, it seems extreme a little, but not enough to cause the collapse of the whole economy.
"McDonald's part-time workers get 5 paid sick days off and full benefits,"
Lots to attack here. First, it is very much a better system where people handling my food can afford to miss days when they are contagious rather than forcing themselves to come to work or risk being fired. Second, no one is suggesting we demand full benefits. Full benefits has a wide range of meanings from Retirement Plans to Vision and Dental Care. All the Health Care bills require is health care. Don't cheat and add things. Third, and most important, there is the thought that McDonald workers, or any part time workers are teen age kids looking to make date money. Have you seen the people working at fast food recently? Have you seen the places that only hire part-time to avoid paying healthcare? Wal-Mart is one of the biggest employers in the world, and works hard to keep people on part time.
"students get passing grades for effort," getting a passing grade for effort is not the sin you make it out to be. Getting a passing grade for no-effort, that is the sin I think you mean. Sure, naturally intelligent people have an easier time in school than those less intelligent. Many of them pass with no effort because they are not challenged. You are not calling that a sin, are you? What you are upset about is the kids who don't make an effort AND don't get the grades. They shouldn't pass. You know what, the American Educational System is making great strides in reducing that phenomenon.
"the last place team gets the same trophy," Yeah. I think it was unearned sports trophy's that killed the Persian empire. Giving kids self-esteem motivational boosts may go against the conservative idea that life is a zero-sum game. I disagree. Kids will learn life is not fair soon enough, but we need them to have faith in themselves when they face that problem.
"society demonizes the successful producers" Our society does demonize the wealthy. We also worship the wealthy. However, we really demonize the wealthy who are not producers.
Interesting word, Producers. Do we really demonize producers?
Society is on a kick to demonize the giant bankers and investment folks who only produce one thing--money. When real producers like small business men and physical producers of real products and services go to those folks for loans, and are refused, it hurts the economy. Seems reasonable to demonize them while they take welfare and give themselves bigger bonuses than those business owners who do production, not to mention the employees who actually produce stuff, see in their lifetimes.
We demonize management, not for being producers, but for being in the way of production.
We demonize the dinosaurs who are into destruction via pollution and pillage of national resources for personal profits, but offer little in production in return.
The only people who demonize the people who produce things are the wealthy, who expect workers to work with no health care, no paid overtime, no education, and no complaints. Complaints are met with the purchase of workers cheaper, elsewhere in the world--or shipped in illegally.
No, we as a country do not demonize the producers. We demonize those who put their personal greed in the way of those who produce--the wasters.
"while dumping billions into failures they can now control"
Somehow I get the feeling that we went from Society to The Obama Administration. Who are these failures that society can now control? Is it the big investment banks? AIG? No, you are talking about the car companies. Chevy, Chrysler, etc. What I find amazing is that this is proof of the opposite of what you said. "Dumping billions into failures we can control while demonizing the producers" if I can paraphrase. Lets try this out. We dumped billions into GM and Chrysler to save the jobs of those who were the Producers of the cars--the workers. The societal control that you are referring to is either the Employee Ownership or the forced abdication of the CEO. What did that accomplish? It put those producers back in charge while ousting the failures.
"They waited in line for meat, milk and gloves because they weren't being produced by evil corporations lead by big bonus CEO's." Actually, the mind set of the factory boss and the big bonus CEO are about the same--build what gets you the most profit. What I think you mean to say here is that they waited in line because the government did not allow any competition to produce what was wanted, not what filled the quotas. If we get to the point that our companies get in the business of getting government handouts instead of producing products and services we want, then we will be heading toward collapse.
"When government propping up of losers drives out the competition, we'll be queuing for Chevy hybrids and doctor visits." But they didn't drive out any competition. They made sure that those companies, despite the stupid mistakes of their CEO Bonus Babies, did not collapse and take a lot of subordinates with them. Then they stepped back. Yes, we have a lot invested in Chevy, but there is no law saying you have to buy one instead of a Honda. There is no hint that buying foreign is unpatriotic now that we own domestic companies. There is no strategic value given to these companies over their competitors. Comparing the bail out to Soviet 5 year plans is just fear mongering.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
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