posted
I am a regular poster on Hatrack. My spouse is not. We want unbiased opinions on a situation.
My perspective.
quote:I work long hours and get tired easy. I am a good provider. On the weekends I try to do stuff with my kids and family. On the weekdays I usually work long hours and am tired in the evening. 3 times a month I go to a friends house to meet a group of people and play various games.
My reasoning is that 3 times a month is not excessive. I have done one thing I think is inexcusable. My little boy (6) misses me and calls and calls and demands I come home "RIGHT NOW." Instead of telling him "not on this night," I have made promises of coming back at 9:30. We usually start at 7 or 8. I come back after he is asleep around 11.
I don't play video games or watch sports.
He has cried and cried when I am at friends house. At those times he thinks I like friends more then I love him. That breaks my heart. I don't feel bad about taking time to my self, but I do feel bad for not being more direct and think I need to work on not getting his hopes up of when I come home.
Other perspective:
quote:First of all, he does work long hours and has very very low energy. On the other hand, our boy has tremendous high energy level. So my husband gets tired to be at home. Most of the time he is not at home, but when he does stay at home, he always lay down and want to go to bed the earliest, leaving me and kids alone.
Now, once in a while he goes to business trip or see his friend. This game thing and his business trip give our oldest boy great deal of despair. I am grateful he keeps his job and works hard in this economy. I admit he does need some break, but he is away from home too much.
I am practically single mom. We eat dinner without dad almost 7 days a week.
My husband says he feels better every time he comes back from his game thing, but that is so much the sacrifice of our old boys' despair. He waits and waits crying for his dad and finally falls into sleep with red puffy face, because of so much crying. It breaks my heart so much. What are my kids going to remember about their dad about?
My husband turns off his cell phone when he is gone, because he said our son calls him almost every 5 minutes. I think he should prioritize his family, more than his pleasure. Aren't the parents supposed to think of their kids first, even if that might sacrifice parents' pleasure?
However, I have to let you know that he does watch our kids while I do my thing on Saturday mornings and sporadically go to Temple on a different days of the week. (But our oldest one never cries for me because I am a stay at home mom and am with my kids all the time. He is happy to be with his dad).
We are looking for an unbiased perspective, thoughts, opinions, and what you do as a family if you have similar type conflict.
IP: Logged |
posted
IMO, this is the sort of thing to find a decent family/couples therapist to work with, NOT to ask the wisdom of the internet.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm with Rivka. This needs a lot more work and perspective than we can provide.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
CommunityHelp
unregistered
posted
That is a very good point. We are not trying to air grievances nor will we respond to anything directly about our post. We will not get in a tit for tat argument or draw this community into a disagreement.
We are curious if other couples spend time away with friends outside of marriage, and if so to what extent.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by CommunityHelp: We will not get in a tit for tat argument or draw this community into a disagreement.
You are missing the point. This is not about us; this is about you two. And getting "proof" that one or the other of you is "right" is NOT what you need.
This isn't about being right.
As a very wise therapist once said to me, "You can be right. Or you can be married."
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:My husband turns off his cell phone when he is gone, because he said our son calls him almost every 5 minutes.
quote:He has cried and cried when I am at friends house. At those times he thinks I like friends more then I love him.
this seems .. excessive. For three game nights a month? Does the child have any other indicators of things like separation anxiety?
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:As a very wise therapist once said to me, "You can be right. Or you can be married."
Oh my goodness that is absolutely right.
I absolutely agree you need to seek advice from a more professional source, it need not be an expensive therapist, just one who knows what they are doing.
This isn't a question of who has the right idea. Nobody would argue that people don't need personal time for leisure, and nobody would argue with the idea that parents have a responsibility for their children that supersedes many other concerns. Since both of those things are not wrong, you have to instead figure out what is "right for your family." You cannot just use another family's blueprint and be happy, as nice as that would be. If you cannot figure out a solution on your own as a husband and wife that you can both be satisfied with, you need to seek a relationships specialist who can more extensively hear the issues involved and help you formulate a solution.
This place cannot substitute for that. You both have a responsibility though to seek out a solution. The way you've been doing things seems only to build resentment. Husband feels stressed even when he's trying to relax. Mom and child feel abandoned and slightly resentful. You have to hit the brakes because the car isn't running right, and you need to decide how to go about fixing it. Don't keep driving.
It is a mistake to look at in terms of which of you is right. What you need to do is sit down together, preferably with outside help, and identify the problems that you are facing as a family.
It isn't as simple as do or don't go to game night. It's why does your child react so strongly, why are you so tired after work, why does your wife feel overwhelmed, and a series of other, more subtle questions.
The answers aren't about who is more right, but about what needs to change for everyone to be as happy and healthy as possible.
That's why you should seek professional help, to assist you in asking the right questions. Going to one more or leas game night a mont won't solve anything.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you're finding that you're tired all the time, have you mentioned it to a doctor? Sure, it could be the long hours and stress. Or it could be some chemical imbalance they can fix.
As for the gaming, have you tried making a schedule of what amount of time you're spending in each place? If it's actually 12 hours a month, that doesn't sound bad. If you get there early or there's a long drive though...
I'd also recommend that you pay attention to how engaged you are when you're with your family. Are you spending time with them by showing up, or are you part of the activities? Being honest with yourself on that one can be tough. Maybe a trusted friend has been out with you guys on the weekends and could offer their perspective?
As for your son, I've to go with the therapy crowd. That kid's got abandonment issues you need to address now before they get worse.
posted
The child worries me. He should not act that way only 3 nights a month. Is it possible that there are underlying issues? Maybe he is picking up on the tenseness between husband and wife?
Is the game thing new or old? When I hear spouses complain about the other spouse doing something they have ALWAYS done, I have no pity. They knew this from the beginning of the relationship.
Can you stay home a few nights a month and let your wife out with friends? That works in my house really well. What about a family game night once a week?
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Give the boy something more interesting for those three nights. Have a friend stay over or him stay at a friends house, but he definatly needs to not prioritize his father like that especially if he is old enough to work a telephone that much without the mothers assistance.
Another idea is this, why not take him with you? depending on the age of the boy and what you guys actually spend your time doing it could be good for the boy to see how men interact in a healthy social environment. Everyone should be allowed to de-frag in whatever way they can, and it could help the kid to understand that its okay that three nights a month daddy interacts with people he knows and understands what his dad is doing. And to contrast to those three nights after the boy experiancing it for himself you could maybe sit around with him and play (age appropiate if necessary) games together so he can see that what dad does is definatly not more important than him.
Posts: 2302 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Every marriage is different. What works for Tom or BlackBlade or MightyCow may not necessarily be what works for you. As others have said, this is a discussion that you, your wife and your children need to be having together, probably with the intercession of a family therapist given the child's feelings of abandonment.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sadly, reading this, it could have been from my husband and me, but he doesn't post here. And my daughter is upset when daddy leaves, but gets over it (she also wakes herself up at 6:30 to say bye to daddy which drives me nuts). Over the school year, I am actually cool with stuff. I get a lot more time to myself when she is at school and so I don't mind him being gone as much. Stephen points out not having sympathy when spouse does what has always done. Unfortunately situations change. Whereas before, the one night a week was not inconvenient, the family life, age of kids, whatever has changed such that it is no longer working and those changed needs should be addressed. My husband and I's plan to deal with our hostility over this include a therapist, but we haven't set stuff up yet.
I think that there are two potential issues here- abandoning wife or abandoning son and both have separate solutions. For abandoning wife, is it that she isn't getting enough time to herself and needs some relief from the kids? Or is it that she isn't getting enough time with hubby and getting to be an adult? Or is it something else? Different solutions would be needed depending on root problems- if it is a need time with husband, date night would help, but if it is need time away from everyone, that wouldn't help so much. Reason to have therapist help work this stuff out- figure out deeper needs than the game night stuff.
For son, it could be that he really needs some daddy bonding time, maybe some other activity once a week or something. Maybe you could go gaming an hour later so he is in bed already? Another thing, maybe make breakfast your big family meal if dinner never happens. If son is responding to mom's anger, maybe that should be addressed. You really need to figure out why such an extreme reaction and address that though (again, good therapist to help with).
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you're so tired when you come home that you lay straight down and don't interact with the family, I think that's a much bigger deal than going to a game night 3 nights a month. Also, if your wife is saying that the family eats dinner without you almost 7 nights a week and you're saying you do things with the family on weekends, there's a disconnect there as well.
I would see a doctor about your tiredness first. If there is an underlying medical cause and you can get it taken care of, so you have the energy to interact with the family some or most weeknights when you're home, that might take care of the otehr problems. Because it's not unreasonable for spouses to have staggered alone time, and it sounds like you're providing that for your wife as well.
If you get the tiredness issue taken care of and your oldest son still can't handle you being gone, then I would say it's time for family therapy. But I think there's a good chance that if he has more, and regular, interaction with you on weeknights that the occasional game nights away won't be as bad.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener: Every marriage is different. What works for Tom or BlackBlade or MightyCow may not necessarily be what works for you. As others have said, this is a discussion that you, your wife and your children need to be having together, probably with the intercession of a family therapist given the child's feelings of abandonment.
There you go, that's pretty much the long and short of it. I just wanted to re-emphasize over the general point (which is The Internet Is Not Your Marriage Therapist) that the kid's behavior relays in text at least to be pretty concerning.
Go shop around for a psychologist (like, actually has the PhD) who specializes in family and relationship issues and specifically mentions this fact! Then go in for a test run and see if it seems like a good match. If not, keep shopping around! Look for someone who can help you dissect the kid's issues.
and i do really want to know about the kid's separation anxiety.
posted
I was about to second the idea about seeking a councilor, and suggest you look into medical reasons why your energy is so low, and what you can do to improve it.
As usual, ElJay beat me to it.
Maybe you are BOTH right, and BOTH wrong. A little of each. There are only so many hours in the day, and a lot of times there just isn't enough time to do everything you want to do.
That doesn't mean you are wrong to want to do it. And your wife isn't wrong to want her kid happy, and her husband present.
I play pool a lot these days. More than I wanted to when I first started playing again. But I try to do it at times when it won't impact my marriage as much. I love playing in tournaments, and they are at least a break even for me, and often I turn a profit, but I can't play in one every week. If I did I might not ever see Jenni.
It's tough, because she watches a lot of TV, and I don't like TV for the most part. So if I stay home rather than play, I often feel like I wasted an evening. Not for spending it with her, but because we only do things she likes to do. She's tired after work, and doesn't want to leave the house....I can understand. But I like being engaged in activities rather than passively watching TV or a movie, at least most of the time.
So I play pool fairly often, but not every night. Probably about 3 times a week. We can do that because we have no kids yet. But I fully expect that to stop when we DO have a kid. I will still play one night a week when I can, but it won't be the same.
posted
It doesn't sound like a "right vs. wrong" issue, quite frankly. Matters of feelings rarely are. If you give up on something you care about because others are making demands of you, you're going to resent it. And if things continue to go on as they have been, especially now that she's made her feelings clear, your spouse is going to resent it. I can't say "Your wife is being unreasonable and should stifle her feelings"; it wouldn't be reasonable to expect that. Nor can I say "You're being selfish and should put your family first", because that isn't going to make your underlying feelings of fatigue and underappreciation go away.
Some good suggestions have already been made. I think (aside, as has been suggested, from some manner of counseling) what is most likely to allow everyone to be satisfied is if your "game nights" are times when the rest of your family does something special, too. If your wife has friends with children close to your son's age, it would sound like an excellent time to work out a visit.
I should add that if you're getting enough sleep at night and ongoing fatigue is still a regular problem, you might want to see a doctor about that if you can. If something like depression or sleep apnea is an underlying problem, it would be a shame for that to get in the way of other things.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Have you tried figuring out how much time you actually spend with your family (active quality time, not sleeping) and how much time you spend gaming? I'm surprised people think three times a month is not a lot. You said that you are too tired to do things during the week, so I'm assuming that means you're not gaming during the week (if you are, I'd have to ask why you're not too tired to do that, but are too tired for family time). That means, you would have to be gaming with your friends on the weekends. There's typically only 4 weekends in a month, and you're using 3 of them to go play with your friends for a night each?
Your boy isn't having to deal with you being gone only 3 nights a month. He's having to deal with you not being around for probably 23 nights, sometimes more, and probably about 20 days.
Why is gaming with your friends the only activity that refreshes you? Why can't you go out with your family instead? You can't possibly be overwhelmed by too much family time, considering you're never home, right? And what about your wife's regeneration time? Does she get to have fun when you watch the kids in the morning on the weekends, or is she stuck doing errands?
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think one mistake that guys make in a marriage is that they overvalue the money they bring home relative to the companionship and love they provide to a household.
Is it possible to cut back on the time that you work, even if it means a pay cut or managing money differently?
Posts: 1757 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Why is gaming with your friends the only activity that refreshes you? Why can't you go out with your family instead? You can't possibly be overwhelmed by too much family time, considering you're never home, right?
1. People occasionally need social or personal functions which 'recharge' them so that they are less mentally worn out and do not risk burnout. The reason why gaming will work (social/leisure function with peers) where family outings with small children won't in many cases work because that's not 'recharge time.' That's taking on more time for the benefit of your family and wrangling kids for most of the duration.
I'm wildly simplifying the 'recharge' thing but it's a very real and well-studied deal.
2. Doesn't matter if he's overwhelmed by 'too much family time' if he's already too exhausted by the demands of his work to participate in the family affairs to the extent that the wife/kids desire.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ehh, "get tired easily" and "very very low energy". You're both saying that you don't spend time with your kids during the week. I don't know the situation, but it sounds like a cop out to me.
I work 50 hours a week and go to school full time. I spend at LEAST an hour a day with my kids, and most of the weekend (including a "family movie night" every week). We go to baseball games, movies, and at least one big outing a month. Heck, my brother works over 90 hours a week, and he still has time for his kids.
Not to sound like a hippocrate, but maybe you should FIND the energy for your kids. They're certainly a higher priority than "lay(ing) down" and "going to bed at the earliest".
How many hours per week do you work?
Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:I work 50 hours a week and go to school full time. I spend at LEAST an hour a day with my kids, and most of the weekend (including a "family movie night" every week). We go to baseball games, movies, and at least one big outing a month. Heck, my brother works over 90 hours a week, and he still has time for his kids.
And would you assert that this is purely a matter of virtue and/or personal priorities, that you 'try harder?' or is it possible that there might be differences between the levels of energy you and they have, be they from health issues or otherwise?
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
samp- the problem is no matter how tired you are, as a parent, you are responsible for watching the kiddos. So, if dad lays down, he is extending mom's work day. (if mom lays down, same problem). From the time dad gets home from work, it is just as much his job to care for those kids as it is mom's. With one parent as stay at home parent, the parent at home is working all day too tending the kids. Both worked all day so one parent passing it off to the other with that as an excuse doesn't work- both worked all day, now both have to deal with the kids all night. Unfortunately sleep is a luxury parents often don't get.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: samp- the problem is no matter how tired you are, as a parent, you are responsible for watching the kiddos. So, if dad lays down, he is extending mom's work day. (if mom lays down, same problem). From the time dad gets home from work, it is just as much his job to care for those kids as it is mom's. With one parent as stay at home parent, the parent at home is working all day too tending the kids. Both worked all day so one parent passing it off to the other with that as an excuse doesn't work- both worked all day, now both have to deal with the kids all night. Unfortunately sleep is a luxury parents often don't get.
As a first time parent of an 8 month old, Amen.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: samp- the problem is no matter how tired you are, as a parent, you are responsible for watching the kiddos.
It doesn't actually help anyone to reiterate to a very tired parent who is running on empty when trying to juggle the emotional needs of their family with extensive work hours that the problem is that they are responsible to <insert something that they're not living up to>. It is very possible that the husband in this case could just 'suck it up' and try to expend more energy on the family, or the solution could be more complex than that in dealing with insufficiencies and frustrations that have been in play for a while now. Without knowing anything in detail aside from a single mayfly post with a cursory detail of each side, and not being professionals, we can't say.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with the advice to seek medical counsel regarding energy level and to seek therapy for you as spouses and as a family.
On the subject of your son, though, I thought you might want to think of other ways you can bond with him. How long is your commute? Could you have a regularly scheduled "chat with dad" for at least 15 minutes en route, so that when you come home you can have a few minutes to decompress? I also think you should look for ways to be involved with the family, but that doesn't have to be a huge deal. Could the kids finish dinner/get into pjs with mom while dad has 20 minutes of down-time, then dad do a story time/board game/crazy pj dance party with kids?
I think the major parenting "crime" mentioned is that you lied to your son about when you'd be home. My guess is he feels very insecure about when/whether he will see you, and having a nightly ritual with dad at least 5 nights a week could be enough to give him that guarantee that he is the priority sometimes.
Even at 3, the kids would both be old enough for you to e-mail them every day. I know it sounds silly, but a daily message that mom can read them like, "I had leftovers for lunch today, and everybody was jealous, because your mom makes the BEST pot roast!" Would let them know that you do think about them during the day, and the printout would be a physical talisman when they miss you.
I also knew another family who had a similar regularly-scheduled recreational activity for one parent, and they gave their kids each 3 "Night with Daddy" cards per year. They told the kids that on any night that Daddy could possibly cancel (e.g., not on a business trip, working towards an impending deadline, etc.) Dad would drop everything to tuck that kid into bed that night, so that the kids felt they had a little more say in things.
Posts: 368 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
sam- I agree that there are probably more details that we are not aware of and they should seek professional medical and psych help. My point in bringing up that it is his job is that his post doesn't convey the exhausted parent who wishes he could do better but is just overwhelmed to me. It doesn't feel like he is trying to juggle their needs with his (from his short and not detailed post). I get the whole I am a good provider, I deserve to rest when I get home vibe. I deserve to have my me time and they keep interfering. If there seemed to an awareness of the fact that he was inconveniencing his family and shortchanging his wife, I wouldn't point out that this is his job. If you come into the conversation with wife saying, I need help with X, the result will be very different than if you come in saying, that's your job. It may even end up that the situation stays the exact same, but everyone's attitude about it improves.
To be fair, my current social group tends toward the attitude that family is the most important thing, but if you provide money, you get a free pass from the actual work of parenting. So, I might be a little sensitive on this point.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's NOT what I was talking about. If someone is trying to stay anonymous, semi-outing them is not at all friendly.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Whatever, I really don't care if they wish to be anonymous or not. If you air your personal crap on the internet, you take the sour with the sweet.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
What others have said. Get professional help. This is beyond a typical marital dispute. You need to fix this before it becomes unfixable.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Orincoro: Knock that off, I'm glad you at least had the decency to not go all Encyclopedia Brown and reveal the OP, but anonymity is something while not guaranteed by the TOS, is pretty common courtesy.
Stop posting anything with the intent of revealing a poster's real identity when they come here with their difficulties.
Posts: 1194 | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: It's common courtesy to allow people to post as alts?
That is not what I said. If people come here because they are having difficulties, and they wish to simply discuss it, without worrying about how it pertains to people's perceptions of them that's fine.
If you are posting on an alt because you wish to avoid some sort of disciplinary action, or because you are actively attacking the board that will never be tolerated.
If people start posting on alts all the time just because it's funny, then perhaps the situation will have to be reevaluated.
Posts: 1194 | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
First, seek counseling. As said before, I am not a therapist and don't want the liabilities of one. Nor can I even begin to know all the details from one post.
But what I did notice in the post was:
He Said: My children miss me when I take a break from them 3 days a month.
She Said: Our children and I miss him when he takes a break 3 days a month.
While she continues to frame the problem around what is needed for the children, what I found missing is what is fair for the wife.
He takes 3 evenings a month to escape the stress of life. When does she get her break? He has two drains on his energy--work and home. She has just one--home--and there is no mention of any break from that drain. Even when he is home, she is gets little relief. From the opening statement we see that he has time to post regularly on Hatrack, but she does not. What is not mentioned by him, but is by her, is his work trips out of town and away from the home stress. While this does not subtract from His stress and exhaustion, it does add to hers.
Yet She barely mentions it straight out, only implies, and then frames the whole argument in terms of the children's health. Is this because she is does not think she is worthy of being given equal status to Him? Is this because He would more strongly respond to a fairness issue involving the children instead of one involving her? I do not know.
But these are issues that really need professional and long time consideration.
When she complains that the child wonders if He loves the game, or work, more than him, I wonder if she is asking does he love the game, or work, more than her?
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Whatever, I really don't care if they wish to be anonymous or not. If you air your personal crap on the internet, you take the sour with the sweet.
I didn't take a poke at you when you posted something fairly serious about your dad's medical condition, did I? I know it wasn't exactly the same thing, as you didn't use an alt, but still.....
I never would have, BTW. When people take the time to share things with us here, particularly things of a painful and personal nature, a little respect goes a long way. I LIKE having a place on the web where people care enough to listen to these types of things and NOT be jerks about them.
There are enough jerks IRL to go around......and around......and around.....
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am with the rest of the crowd in saying that you should probably se a counselor.
I have no kids yet, but up until about two months ago I would raid in World of Warcraft for two or three nights of the week. I would get home from work, kiss my wife, eat some dinner, then head straight to my computer. My raid would start at 8 pm and would go until midnight.
My wife always complained about it because I wasn't spending time with her, and I would make the case that work was very stressful and this was my way of relaxing. "There are 24 people there that I have known for a long time, and its fun to hang out with them!"
My wife wanted all of the time I was home to be spent with her, and I had myself convinced that she was being selfish. (The irony!) She had 5 nights a week, couldn't I have 2 for myself?
Sure I was physically present, but during those hours I was playing WoW we wouldn't talk, and often I would get annoyed when she would ask me something because I was in the middle of a fight.
It finally clicked in my head that raiding didn't really matter. Sure it was fun and I enjoyed it, but I realized that in the long run all the items I got and all the bosses I killed meant absolutely nothing. I was missing out on my family.
I quit cold turkey about two months ago and things are so much better now. I thought I would be bored at first, but my wife and I have found things to do. We started watching a new TV series together on Netflix, we've been visiting and hanging out with friends more, and saving a lot of money by cooking dinner instead of ordering out because I had to make raid times.
I am actually less stressed and have more energy since stopping. I have been getting to bed earlier since I don't have to raid until midnight.
It took me four years to figure out for myself something a therapist probably could have told me in ten minutes.
I hope everything turns out ok for you.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
My own initial reaction to the OP is almost certainly not helpful, because I'm making assumptions and inferences that are probably not accurate. I think ANY side taking based on the OP is going to rest in some degree on the same sort of thing.
This reminds me of that marriage ref show. People aren't happy when they get their issues/problems refereed. It's amusing and may not be harmful, but it doesn't really resolve things in a satisfactory way.
Expert counseling seems like a much better idea, if it seems like you're at an impasse.
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: I get the whole I am a good provider, I deserve to rest when I get home vibe. I deserve to have my me time and they keep interfering. If there seemed to an awareness of the fact that he was inconveniencing his family and shortchanging his wife, I wouldn't point out that this is his job. If you come into the conversation with wife saying, I need help with X, the result will be very different than if you come in saying, that's your job. It may even end up that the situation stays the exact same, but everyone's attitude about it improves.
To be fair, my current social group tends toward the attitude that family is the most important thing, but if you provide money, you get a free pass from the actual work of parenting. So, I might be a little sensitive on this point.
You have to understand I am objecting to the insinuation I heard which boils down to "it's a cop out' and 'I don't have this problem, how much do you work?' etc etc. Nothing about what I said is related to the notion that the breadwinner 'deserves' the 'right' to pass out each day, just that it may be unavoidable for some.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: I get the whole I am a good provider, I deserve to rest when I get home vibe. I deserve to have my me time and they keep interfering. If there seemed to an awareness of the fact that he was inconveniencing his family and shortchanging his wife, I wouldn't point out that this is his job. If you come into the conversation with wife saying, I need help with X, the result will be very different than if you come in saying, that's your job. It may even end up that the situation stays the exact same, but everyone's attitude about it improves.
To be fair, my current social group tends toward the attitude that family is the most important thing, but if you provide money, you get a free pass from the actual work of parenting. So, I might be a little sensitive on this point.
You have to understand I am objecting to the insinuation I heard which boils down to "it's a cop out' and 'I don't have this problem, how much do you work?' etc etc. Nothing about what I said is related to the notion that the breadwinner 'deserves' the 'right' to pass out each day, just that it may be unavoidable for some.
You know, there's a pretty broad spectrum here. We just don't know enough of the situation.
Is he working an eight-hour shift in a factory, coming home and laying on the couch in front of the tv, and going to bed early for twelve hours of sleep?
Is he working fifteen hour shifts at a rock quarry, pushing insane overtime to pay the bills, and falling asleep at the kitchen table?
My guess, with the "very very low energy" quote, would be that it's closer to the first example . . . but that's just a wild stab in the dark. Some of us "kill ourselves" to build relationships with our children and give them the best life that we can, healthy or sick, tired or not. I don't feel pity for the slubs who just want to watch their televisions and ignore their kids and complain about how exhausted they are.
Without knowing all of the details, there's no way to judge. How many hours does he work a week? Is there a medical condition involved with the "very very low energy"? How much sleep does he get? How much tv does he watch? Etc.
A doctor or psychologist is probably the best recourse. They could look into the details and best determine root cause.
Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I often go play basketball on Tuesdays at 9 pm, and even then it's hard to leave my wife and kids--and I know the kids will be asleep in a half hour or so after I leave. I look forward to playing, and my wife is fine with me going (as long as I'm helpful beforehand ) but I still leave with a twinge of guilt. I've given up or rescheduled other things here and there that were taking me away from home on a regular basis.
If my son started bawling when I left and tried to call me every five minutes, I would probably give up basketball until I figured things out with my son. I'm sure it's the same for the OP: my family is more important to me than an ultimately meaningless activity. When there's a crisis, all peripheral stuff gets put on hold and we focus on what's most important. To me, it sounds like the OP needs to reorganize his priorities. If going to game night is causing that much trouble at home, it's time to seriously reconsider how important game night is.
The chairman of a company I used to work for is known for one particular story. Once when he was in the middle of a serious board meeting, his young son called his phone. He said, "Daddy, I need you to play with me." The chairman hung up and told the board members, "I'm sorry, I have to go. My son needs to play with me."
I have a tough time mustering the mental energy all the time to really be involved with my kids. It's hard for me to get down on the floor and just play whatever they're playing. Some dads have an easier time of it. Frequently it's a battle of willpower for me to stay switched on and 100% there with the kids. I totally sympathize with the OP in this. But really, it's one of the places where what energy I spend pays off meaningfully and fulfillingly, like precious few places in life.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:The chairman of a company I used to work for is known for one particular story. Once when he was in the middle of a serious board meeting, his young son called his phone. He said, "Daddy, I need you to play with me." The chairman hung up and told the board members, "I'm sorry, I have to go. My son needs to play with me."
To be fair, I imagine that this is much easier when you are the chairman of your company.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I was a child my father worked for Citibank as a computer programmer. He used to work six or seven days a week, and would leave for work at 6 am and would not get home until 10pm.
I would sometimes go three weeks without seeing my dad. I don't remember it much, but I do remember that I missed my dad. I wanted to play with him and hang out with him because he was (and still is) my hero.
One day my mother called my dad and said he had to come home right now. She said I had been sitting on the curb for two hours and when she asked why I had said "I am waiting for daddy to come home because I haven't seen him in a long time." He asked to speak to me and when I got on the phone I had said "Dad when are you going to play with me?"
My father realized that while he was supporting his family and providing for us, his kids didn't need extra toys, they needed their dad. He went to his boss and put in his two weeks notice that day. He didn't have another job lined up. All he knew was that his son needed him more than he needed that job. They tried to get him to stay by offering more money but he didn't take it. They were kind enough to let him use his vacation time he had saved up for his two weeks notice.
A couple weeks later my father found a job at Southwest Gas here in Las Vegas working in their tech support department. It was an 8-5 job working Monday through Friday, and paid $10,000 more a year than he was making at Citibank. He and his team handle the servers and internal network for the company. He has been there 25 years and makes really good money.
Every situation is different, but you may want to look at your priorities. Because you work so much and you go to bed early are you spending time with your son like you should? Are you there physically without being there emotionally and mentally?
When my wife and I finally decide to have a child, I have an example of someone I can emulate. I'll admit I am extremely lucky to have the father I do. My four brothers, my father, and I still go out to the see movies, go camping, and play computer games with each other. This will be the second year my dad and I go to Blizzcon together!
Make time for your family no matter what the cost. A little sacrifice now will make life so much more rewarding later.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) but I still leave with a twinge of guilt. I've given up or rescheduled other things here and there that were taking me away from home on a regular basis.
