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Author Topic: Tantrum or Moderation
Rakeesh
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Am I correct in assuming that when people were mean and the discussion was icky, Aros deleted the thread? Or was that a moderator's hand?
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Dan_Frank
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I... wow.

Really? Holy crap.

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Rakeesh
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If it weren't for the near dozen pages of other people's words, I would hope it was a nice juicy tantrum. Little else would serve to illustrate my point so well.
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Parkour
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That was not necessary [Razz]
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Dan_Frank
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Yeah I don't think this is particularly funny. That's seriously lame.
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Parkour
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There were some really serious and important words there about getting "chivalrous" people to understanding the problematic sexist issues involved in their code of how to treat women. It was broadening into larger issues as a result. And now its gone. If it really was deleted in a tantrum it shows an unwillingness to critically appraise well intentioned sexism that you were raised with, which is the problem with chivalry in a nutshell.
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Parkour
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If it was deleted because people were talking about boobs though, that's even worse.
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Aros
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It was deleted because it was my thread and I had the prerogative to do it. If people are lewd and tasteless in a thread I start, if the conversation devolves from one about polite manners into one of a much more adult nature (well beyond a mere discussion of boobs), I have every right to delete it.

Just like Rakeesh has every right to whine and throw about personal attacks on my purported character. At least it's apparent that a moderator may have been necessary.

You can call it a tantrum if you like. I spent less thought on it than I would picking out a shirt to wear in the morning.

[Roll Eyes]

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TomDavidson
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I'd like to think that true knights would be brave enough to face young children sharting on women's breasts without running away.
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:

I spent less thought on it than I would picking out a shirt to wear in the morning.

Considering the amount of discussion and thought that many people put into the thread, this sentiment is even more insulting than the actual act of deletion.

You should have thought about your actions.

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dkw
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Hey Aros, serious question: how does chivalry relate to the level of respect and consideration you just showed to people who spent considerable time and effort on their posts in that thread?
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The Black Pearl
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I spent fifteen minutes on my last post. You had no right!

That said, idk if anyone responded to me. If you did, I never read it.

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Aros
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I just hope they know their posts went to a happy place. I'll be hosting a memorial service this afternoon. There will be tears.

Do you want an honest answer or a facetious remark? Don't matter to me. It was my thread. I couldn't delete offensive posts, and the moderator wasn't about to step in. My purpose in starting the thread had been completed. And I wasn't about to put up with the trash it had become.

Should this evolve into a discussion of how much ownership and responsibility we have over threads that we start? Because the software just gave me this big delete button. . . .

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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by umberhulk:
I spent fifteen minutes on my last post. You had no right!

If I had no right, why did the software allow me to do it?
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Aros
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Dan . . . it was hyperbole.
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
I just hope they know their posts went to a happy place. I'll be hosting a memorial service this afternoon. There will be tears.

Do you want an honest answer or a facetious remark? Don't matter to me. It was my thread. I couldn't delete offensive posts, and the moderator wasn't about to step in. My purpose in starting the thread had been completed. And I wasn't about to put up with the trash it had become.

Should this evolve into a discussion of how much ownership and responsibility we have over threads that we start? Because the software just gave me this big delete button. . . .

Just because you are able to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

You decided that you'd rather sabotage other peoples' ability to discuss something you didn't want to discuss. That's pretty messed up.

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The Black Pearl
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It was always going to end this way.
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Rakeesh
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People don't often spend much time thinking about the tantrums they throw beforehand. And spend more afterwards justifying them.

Anyway, I do credit you with the minimal integrity necessary to at least admit the actual reason early: you had the ability to do so, and you wanted to, so therefore you did. You also get to hide the fact that the one actually mentioning nasty bodily functions the most was you.

Anyway, you're an excellent representative of your sort, Aros. Have a position, insist others must hold it to be in good form, and then when things go against you throw a fit that ends up alienating even more people. Keep on shrinking that share, buddy!

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Aros
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As Rakeesh will tell you in painstaking detail, I'd complained about the toilet humor, semi-pornography, and child endangerment subtopics multiple times before I contemplated deletion. In return, I received ridicule. I'm fine with that. But it was MY thread. MY discussion.

I apologize to people that had participated with good intentions that their words were lost. But others DID read them (for the most part). It's not like the communications never happened.

And for those that can't keep their heads and minds to at least a semblance of public civility (both in posts and personal messages), I couldn't care less. If I were hosting you in a real-life public forum and you got out of hand, I'd send you packing just as well.

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MattP
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No Aros, it was not. As soon as other people began talking to each other, be became many people's discussion. You were one participant. Yes, the software lets you delete a thread that you create, but that doesn't make it *your* thread any more than JanitorBlade's ability to delete any thread makes them all his. You eliminated by fiat a discussion that was valued by many people because you no longer approved of it. It was petty.
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Rakeesh
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Oh, and incidentally, you're lying when you say you spent almost no thought on it. Not hyperbole, lying-you first were whining about how distasteful the thread had become well before you deleted it, making (untrue, as it turned out) mentions that it needed a NSFW tag, or was getting close to it. Please don't expect anyone to believe the thought of deleting the thread didn't occur to you then.

As for needing moderation, you mentioned yourself the moderator wasn't about to step in, so you've lied once more. What you thought it needed, and were in a position to give, was a good stiff dose of autocracy. How appropriate for the censor.

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The Black Pearl
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efFl_EDXCW0
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Aros
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You forgot to compare me to Hitler. Isn't that right?
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Aros
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Hahaha. Or Darth Vader.
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Samprimary
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quote:
I'm fine with that. But it was MY thread. MY discussion.
And your response to it really does tell us more about your position than you ever intended to express, or perhaps more than you are self-aware of.

Anyway ladies, remember — it's such a shame that we're moving away from a chivalrous world where men purposefully deny you the ability to know how much they are tipping your server, because you're a girl. Remember: being treated differently because of your genitals is something you should be happy about, and lord's sakes let's not discuss the adult issues of sex and sexuality, that's just uncivilized and will result in deletion of an important discussion about outmoded sexist mores!

quote:
The expected reply:
That's totally not fair, that's not what happened and I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss t...

WOW THEN DON'T FLIPPANTLY DELETE THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION NEXT TIME
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Rakeesh
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Oh, and as for the ability conferring the right...well. Were we to meet, I may very well have it within my power to steal your wallet. Or you mine, Aros. Therefore I've a right to your wallet.

Maybe now we can dispense with such a profoundly stupid argument, though I've got to admit it's beginning to be funny in itself at how suited that argument is to a censor's mind: might makes right.

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Rakeesh
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Oh, and another nugget of unintended humor on your part, Aros: I received ridicule, but I was fine with it...as evidenced by my deleting the entire discussion. Hee.
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Samprimary
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I'm going to pull the entire conversation out of cache from my computer when I get it back from the house it's at right now. If anyone can contribute to that before then I would be pretty happy with that. My goal is to have the entire thread reposted here for posterity with highlights on the best individual posts, and I am not sure when my record is going to end because of the last time I viewed the thread.
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The Black Pearl
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Just thought that Obi-Wan quote was fitting, aros. You had the right to do it. I just thought it was terrible.
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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I'm going to pull the entire conversation out of cache from my computer when I get it back from the house it's at right now. If anyone can contribute to that before then I would be pretty happy with that. My goal is to have the entire thread reposted here for posterity with highlights on the best individual posts, and I am not sure when my record is going to end because of the last time I viewed the thread.

I think you should creatively misquote some people and modify portions of it. That would be good for a lark.
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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Oh, and another nugget of unintended humor on your part, Aros: I received ridicule, but I was fine with it...as evidenced by my deleting the entire discussion. Hee.

S'what I get for feeding the trolls, I guess. I'd rather not bother.

Look. I start a post about the '69 Raiders. Say you come along and hijack it to talk about Starcraft or some other such nonsense, to the degree where my original post gets lost in the noise. I'll delete that one too. And if I still care, I'll repost about the Raiders. If I don't? Who cares.

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TomDavidson
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Why would you? Threads do not exist to serve you, and we do not post at your behest.
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The Black Pearl
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When does Heart of the Swarm come out?
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Aros
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Nobody said that you did exist to serve me. Maybe it goes back to the question . . . who owns our posts? Maybe I shouldn't have access to the delete button. I'd probably agree with that.

If I post regarding a personal medical condition, asking for advice, would you come up into it insulting me and talking about child objectification? Wouldn't it be completely reasonable for me to delete it?

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NobleHunter
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No. If it contains content from other people it's completely unreasonable for you to delete it.

If you don't like where a thread's gone just stop reading it.

Heart of the Swarm is March 12, I think?

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Rakeesh
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You're still lying. I expect you think that because you exercised the right that your might (in a discussion board, anyway) gave you you might have some credibility.

The thread was still quite topical. We were discussing whether society should tell us which parts of our bodies we're allowed to expose publicly and if so, to what extent. That stemmed directly from the conversation about changing social thought on gender roles. The extent the thread even included such naughty topics as toilet humor was minimal and the conversation on that score was dying out anyway when you started whining and then threw a tantrum, and you had spent more time complaining about it than anyone did talking about it.

Now go on, Aros. I'm not even sure why you bother to defend yourself in a thread you created-you've already shown yourself so lacking in guts as to be unable to see unpleasant *words* without stamping them out. The bravery and moral strength of the censor. A feeble thing indeed.

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The Black Pearl
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I need to get a new computer monitor for it. My current one glitches when I play it.

Send me a friend request?

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stilesbn
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Anyway ladies, remember — it's such a shame that we're moving away from a chivalrous world where men purposefully deny you the ability to know how much they are tipping your server, because you're a girl.

That's an interesting example to pull out of the whole thread since it's really no one's business how much you tip unless she's your wife and therefore has a shared financial interest and responsibility. Unless of course you keep separate accounts and manage your financials separately, then it's not even your wife's business.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
If I post regarding a personal medical condition, asking for advice, would you come up into it insulting me and talking about child objectification? Wouldn't it be completely reasonable for me to delete it?
Why do you expect anyone to believe this self-serving spin you put on events? You're the one who made it impossible for people to read and make up their own minds about what happened. Why should you be considered trustworthy, censor?
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
Nobody said that you did exist to serve me. Maybe it goes back to the question . . . who owns our posts? Maybe I shouldn't have access to the delete button. I'd probably agree with that.

If you'd agree with it, then you should choose to act morally and act as though you don't have that option.

This is like bludgeoning someone to death and then saying "Maybe I shouldn't have the ability to bludgeon this guy to death. I'd probably agree with that."

You still chose to do it. All you're saying here is that you recognize that you made an immoral choice. Have you decided you'll stop making that immoral choice in the future?

quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
If I post regarding a personal medical condition, asking for advice, would you come up into it insulting me and talking about child objectification? Wouldn't it be completely reasonable for me to delete it?

Generally, when someone posts something of a sensitive nature, that may be deleted, they indicate such from the outset.

You posted something you knew was controversial, to have a critical discussion of that topic. You don't get to dictate what path that discussion takes, and you shouldn't punish people for discussing it in a way you disagree with.

Even if you can.

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MrSquicky
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As I said in the deleted thread, the backbone of courtesy is respect for other people. As I also said there, Aros, you seem to lack this respect (at the time I said it seemed somewhat lacking, but you've proved this doubt correct), which is a big reason why people doubt the sincerity of your holding the positive aspects of "traditional" manners, as opposed to the negative ones.

Also, courtesy and politeness are about the extra you do (or don't do). If you're going to defend yourself with "Well, I was able to do this, so it's okay." you should probably give up the pretense that you care much about them.

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Darth_Mauve
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Aros, it was a tactical mistake.

You claim that the post you started to discuss the serious issue of Chivalry dieing has been hijacked with perversion so you deleted it.

This thread, which was not started by you so you can not delete it, hints at something different. You lost the argument, so in a petulant huff, deleted it.

Any proof that the thread was hijacked is deleted. Any proof that the thread had gone into NSFW areas inappropriate to this forum--has been deleted.

We have your word that the thread was terrible so you deleted it, and the words of others, those who's thoughts and efforts you deleted, saying you were wrong.

There is nothing now that you can say or that you can do that can change the opinions of any new person who reads this thread. You are a poor loser who "Took his ball and went home."

That may not be the truth, but you deleted any evidence to the contrary.

I've started many threads, and have seen them hijacked to ends I did not like. What is the mature response?

Ignore it.

Let the thread fade away, drift to the next page, not respond.

And if others keep it alive, ignore it.

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Aros
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My only real thought in deleting this was essentially that people behave online as if there are no consequences. Some people poured a lot of thought into a debate over chivalry. Others countered and had a reasonable discussion. Regardless of anything that happened, we still had that discussion. It already happened.

Then one or more trolls came in and crashed the discussion, believing there was no consequence to their action. Some of them put a lot of time into it too.

Well, the system allowed me to nuke the thread. I still had a good debate over chivalry with some reasonable people. That didn't disappear. There were two consequences to my action:
- People can't go back and read the actual discussion
- The trolls might have learned that there are consequences to their behavior

To anyone who wasn't a troll, I apologize profusely if you're offended or upset. But I thought the loss was worth the gain. Still do. I just mourn the proliferation of trolls on this site. And some of them actually behaved themselves in the past. Someone must have just pushed their troll buttons.

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The Black Pearl
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No one was trolling. We discussed chivalry until we were tired of it, and people decided to talk about something else. At some point the thread pivots into a tangent or it dies. You can disagree with it. I wouldn't have blamed you, but no one was doing anything harmful. Maybe a warning should have been made based off of one link, in case someone gets really unlucky over something that was actually pretty tame. That doesn't mean there was anything wrong with any thing else.
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MattP
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You are using a very loose definition for "troll". JanitorBlade actively moderates actual trolls. People saying stuff you consider to be off-topic or off-color does not constitute trolling. Context matters. If we only had some...
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Samprimary
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Not that anyone was really trolling the thread, or that what you really had a problem with actually had to do with people trolling, but it's just flat-out dense of you to say "I thought the loss was worth the gain" so comfortingly to everyone who contributed to that thread.

If you were worried about the "trolls" and wanted them to learn that there was a consequence to their actions, then you should not have responded to it by letting their actions prove that you were a whiny tantrumbaby who was going to delete the entire thread, void every aspect of the conversation equally, then come back later and say "I spent less thought on it than I would picking out a shirt to wear in the morning."

Well, y'all just come back when you figure out that this was a calculated decision to teach people a lesson that you weighed the consequence of, or if you re-remember that it was actually just something you did without really thinking about it.

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Aros
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This isn't an 18+ board, is it Matt? Where's the line? If you create a thread, are you not able to draw that line?
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rivka
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Oh, goodie. We haven't had a tar-and-feather-all-thread-deleters thread in positively AGES!
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kmbboots
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We haven't had someone selfish enough to delete a thread like that in ages either.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Bye bye gun discussion.

I for one will -never- post in a thread created by Aros ever again.

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