posted
More fuel for the fire! The "Birthers" just won't go away!
quote:Things got pretty awkward for news website, Yahoo! News, after an article published by a White House reporter Friday called Kenya President Obama’s ‘country of birth.’
The article, written by Rachel Rose Hartman, spoke of the Obama family’s upcoming visit to Africa, which is expected to take place on June 26th to July 3rd. Hartman mentioned that the President will not be stopping in his country of birth which — apparently to the writer — is Kenya. […]
Yahoo! News later issued a correction to the article, stating that the story had mistakenly identified the president’s country of birth. And in an attempt to remedy the situation, the website changed the statement from saying the president’s ‘country of birth’ to his ‘ancestral homeland’, which admittedly is not much better.
Then there is this article from back in October of 2008:
quote:Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes. by Tamar Yonah
Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama.
posted
Ancestral homeland doesn't bother me, though it's one of those curious things when you have two parents who come from such different backgrounds. There's also some racial overtones there, where, despite being bi-racial, the media assumes his ancestral homeland is the birthplace of his black half, not his white half.
But if I was president and I made a visit to Canada, or France, or England, and the media called it my ancestral homeland, it wouldn't bother me at all. I'm actually rather proud of being half French-Canadian.
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We've been over this, Ron. Obama's grandmother doesn't say what you-and that report-claims she said. It's been proven. It's done.
I'm all but certain you remember this. If you wish to dredge it up again and be humiliated into staying away for a few months again-as happened last time-that's fine, of course.
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No such thing was ever proven, Rakeesh. You certainly didn't. Most people like you in this forum seems to have no understanding of sound logic and appreciation of what constitutes genuine facts, nor how to weigh them. The only "evidence" you have ever been able to cite is fools quoting fools quoting each other. I really look forward to the end of the imperial Obama presidency when a different administration will authorize responsible and thorough investigations of all the facts. A lot of felonies have been committed to put Obama into office, and a lot of people deserve to be sent to prison.
[ February 16, 2014, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: No such thing was ever proven, Rakeesh. You certainly didn't.
Yeah he did. Several times. You just stopped participating in the conversation when proof was presented. Several times.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: More fuel for the fire! The "Birthers" just won't go away!
[QUOTE]Things got pretty awkward for news website, Yahoo! News, after an article published by a White House reporter Friday called Kenya President Obama’s ‘country of birth.’
The article, written by Rachel Rose Hartman, spoke of the Obama family’s upcoming visit to Africa, which is expected to take place on June 26th to July 3rd. Hartman mentioned that the President will not be stopping in his country of birth which — apparently to the writer — is Kenya. […]
Yahoo! News later issued a correction to the article, stating that the story had mistakenly identified the president’s country of birth. And in an attempt to remedy the situation, the website changed the statement from saying the president’s ‘country of birth’ to his ‘ancestral homeland’, which admittedly is not much better.
Then there is this article from back in October of 2008:
quote:
LOL.
So the "evidence," that you present as valuable (in reference to your very high standard of "Facts, and how to weigh them"), is the wording of an article written by a Yahoo web contributor who mistakenly referred to Kenya as Obama's birthplace.
Do you, Ron, actually think that this even constitutes a statement made by someone at the White House? Because it's a reporter writing the words, in reference to the happenings of a trip to Africa. In what universe of inanity does that constitute proof of anything to you, Ron? Honestly?
And while the insipid article you actually linked to refers to this person as a "white house reporter," a look at her bylines for Yahoo! News reveals that she is a standard-issue secondary source hack who writes freelance click-bait articles, when she isn't covering local sports.
She was not at the White House, she is not a credentialed member of the press corps at all, and so her choice of words, poor as it was, is proof of *absolutely nothing,* aside from her sheer incompetence.
Just a little education Ron, on how this works: there are a number of *real reporters* whose news organizations maintain a White House correspondent beat, and these reporters, relatively few in number, are cleared by White House security to be present at press briefings from the executive branch. They write news briefs for their organizations, including the AP, NY Times, The Guardian, Chicago Tribune, and many others, and local papers, online publications, and others buy those briefs en masse. Some hack writes an article based on those briefs if that particular paper wants to run the story. If it is something important, a real reporter writes the story, and it is thoroughly *fact checked*. If it is not important, a freelancer or staffer writes the piece and they publish it to little fanfare, so that when you google this type of crap, the article brings you to that particular website, instead of another.
Try googling any major news event: there will be about 500 stories, all slightly different, all with exactly the same facts. That's because the 500 people that wrote those stories were all reading the same brief, which they all bought from one of a very few sources that sell them. That's it. That's all it is. The main purpose of the White House press room, is to disseminate facts and spin events to this very small group of people, who will then share that information, if they believe it, to many thousands of others, who will then write about it.
I can outline how this article came into existence for you in a few helpful steps.
1. White House Press Secretary held a conference to outline Obama's trip to Africa
2. AP correspondent (or similar) asked: "Will the President be visiting Kenya?" To which the press secretary answered: "No, unfortunately, he will not have time to visit Kenya."
3. AP correspondent wrote: "PS states President will not visit Kenya due to X reason"
4. Hack contributor reads brief, decides to add fact that Obama will not visit Kenya in the first graph.
5. Grasping at a way of making this fact interesting, hack contributor supplies this information with the added touch: "will not be visiting his place of birth," either because she is too inept to do fact checking, or she is engaged in the birther conspiracy theory, or because she made a simple mistake, and is incompetent.
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: No such thing was ever proven, Rakeesh. You certainly didn't. Most people like you in this forum seems to have no understanding of sound logic and appreciation of what constitutes genuine facts, nor how to weigh them. The only "evidence" you have ever been able to cite is fools quoting fools quoting each other. I really look forward to the end of the imperial Obama presidency when a different administration will authorize responsible and thorough investigations of all the facts. A lot of felonies have been committed to put Obama into office, and a lot of people deserve to be sent to prison.
Bullshit. It was proven, refuted, and posted here in a thread you participated in, although you never admitted it.
But as anyone who has ever engaged you here, actual facts rarely enter the equation during the conversation, and are NEVER acknowledged by you. You simply refuse to continue to participate after being proven wrong time and time again.
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posted
is this seriously back to that video Ron claimed you saw Barack's grandmother saying "barack nate dhlana" in where it was painfully clear that this was not something you saw in the video and it was literally impossible to get Ron to comprehend this fact that he was making an incorrect claim about what the video showed
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i like the proud claim that birthers won't go away.
neither do the people who say that vaccines cause autism, that the moon landing was faked, that details are being used to poison us, and that fluoride is a mind control drug. let's celebrate the stickiness of certain fringe conspiracy delusions, horray.
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Orincoro, Samprimary, Kwea, et. al., all of you who claim you or anyone ever refuted me about anything are just lying. You think that ridicule and insult constitute refutation. Just because you make some rude noise in response does not mean you are answering me. Your consistent failure to make logically valid arguments show me that you are incapable of weighing anything intelligently. Those of you who resort to such sophomoric snarky debating tactics over and over again have convinced me that you are not worthy of being taken seriously as intelligent people, you have no mental self-discipline, and so you do not deserve any more of my time than I give you. I have probably given you way more than you merit as it is. But I do enjoy raising your blood pressure. You deserve it.
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It's ridicule and sneering *now*, because you are either so dishonest or so forgetful-which with your tenacious, dishonest style of political discussion amounts to the same thing-that you aren't talking about how, years ago now, you participated in this same discussion.
In that discussion, you referenced the same thing-Granny Obama-and her supposed announcement that she had been present at her grandson's birth. It was revealed that the person claiming to have made this discovery was an agenda-carrying hack who relied on misleading translation of the quotes in question. The video was scrutinized very, very carefully and you were asked-repeatedly-to point to the precise time frame in which she made the supposed statement.
I believe you refused to do so, proudly claimin that it was proven and mocking others for denying the truth in your usual fashion, but I might be getting that confused with all the other times you've done just that. You might have adopted one of your other usual tactics, which is to be demonstrated to even your political allies to be a bizarre conspiracy toting crackpot, and then simply stop responding as though it were settled...
Months or years later to return and claim further vindication on equally flimsy or even identically flimsy evidence. As you've shown again, these two tactics of yours aren't mutually exclusive. Now, we can skip ahead to the part where you vanish in embarrassment again, or we can really get into this once more and eventually arrive at the same point again, after you've once more tarnished your own agenda by your embarrassing allegiance. Either way if you think you're making your opponents seethe, well perhaps you are. But they're also delighted to have you back making opposition to Obama look so ridiculous.
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Oh, and I've just got to take a moment to appreciate the way Birthers such as Ron just can't quite resist exposing their own racism and xenophobia. 'Ancestral homeland' is hardly better than a supposed conspiracy to violate the constitution?
We already know that having a scary sounding black people name is enough for you, Ron. You didn't need to come right out and say 'don't be from Kenya in MY country, darkie!' too. It was already obvious:)
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Orincoro, Samprimary, Kwea, et. al., all of you who claim you or anyone ever refuted me about anything are just lying.
Ron, this is so excruciatingly simple to explain that you ended up seeming positively delusional when this happened.
It was really, really, super straightforward.
You posted a video where you said that you could see Barack's grandmother saying "barack nate dhalani"
People really seriously tried to explain to you, over and over again, that the video did not actually show this. At first it could have been assumed that you were possibly just confused with the language used. But it was explained to you multiple times. The video did not show barack's grandma saying what you claimed it did. It didn't show it at all. There was no video of it. It cut away and offered it as a sound clip with no attached video of Barack's grandmother.
People explained this to you over and over again. We asked you to provide a timestamp in the video where you were claiming the video showed Barack's grandmother saying barack nate dhalani. You continued to attest that the video showed something that it completely, absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, did not show. Repeated rewatchings of the video in question pretty much showed that what you were saying was false, but you kept insisting it was true and becoming increasingly agitated and demeaning towards everyone who was observing that you were saying completely and unambiguously incorrect things. You went into your standard tirades about other people's intelligence and how nobody else is logical or has a clear mind or can see the truth because obviously the way you described the video was absolutely true (it wasn't)
It was absolutely amazing. You started to sound, literally, just outright insane.
Like, how much of this do you even really remember?
I suppose it's convenient to be able to convince yourself that you have never been refuted by simply forgetting every inconvenient instance of being wrong. Do you remember when I amply and ably refuted your 2008 election prediction and you just mocked me and said "Well samprimary we will see who is right" and I was totally right and you were completely refuted? Do you remember when you made a nonambiguous prediction about Obama's impeachment that I refuted? Has Obama been impeached before the 2008 elections?
Do you literally even just have the capacity to remember when you've been proven wrong?
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Sam, making predictions is one thing. It is always understood that unless one is a prophet, there is always the possibility of being wrong. But establishing facts and basing logical arguments on them is another matter. You seem to blur the two together, and are not even aware that you are doing it--or maybe you are, and just hope that no one else will notice.
No one proved that what was quoted in the video did not say what I said it did. Someone made the unreasonable demand that I calculate the exact second in the video when the words were spoken. Of course I ignored such a stupid demand. That proved nothing. It was a short video, and anyone who is honest can hear it for him/herself. Claiming otherwise only demonstrates your own fundamental dishonesty.
Rakeesh, it is foolish for you to accuse people who disagree with you of being racist. Your playing the race card is itself the real act of racism, for which you owe everyone here an apology. For the record (and I have said this before), I would gladly vote for Condolezza Rice (the most intelligent person of any gender or race who has held a position at the federal level), or for Dr. Ben Carson (who has been outspoken in his criticism of Obama). I oppose Barack Obama because he is a tyrant who runs roughshod over the U.S. Constitution, and has a record of lying about virtually everything, and every policy he proposes is disastrously wrong. He is a socialist, and he does favor Muslims over Christians.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: No one proved that what was quoted in the video did not say what I said it did.
Can you disprove the existence of the invisible giant pink elephant outside your bedroom? The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. You can't expect people to believe any ridiculous claim is true because they can't prove it false.
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Unreasonable? Absurd. You claimed the video included a specific statement. It was a short video. If what you said were true, it would be very easy to have pointed to the moment in which the words you claim were spoken, were spoken.
As for racism, the article you so gleefully link to states that having a Kenyan background in one's family tree is not much better than an elaborate conspiratorial ruse to bilk the Constitution. So, yknow, racist. As for favoring Muslims over Christians, well we're all on pins and needles.on that one-or is this one of those areas, again, where the evidence is *so* super true that requiring evidence is some sort of affront?
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Your consistent failure to make logically valid arguments show me that you are incapable of weighing anything intelligently.
Prime candidate for the funniest thing I've read so far this year.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: No one proved that what was quoted in the video did not say what I said it did. Someone made the unreasonable demand that I calculate the exact second in the video when the words were spoken. Of course I ignored such a stupid demand. That proved nothing. It was a short video, and anyone who is honest can hear it for him/herself. Claiming otherwise only demonstrates your own fundamental dishonesty.
You're still not understanding. Apparently you don't remember correctly at all what actually happened AND you are stridently misunderstanding the explanation about what it was you were wrong about.
You said that the video shows Obama's grandmother saying 'barack nate dhalani'
It does not show her saying that. It shows her saying some other things, and then has separate audio. She's never shown saying these words. There is no video of her saying these words. There is a video of her, and it cuts to words being said without video, and there's no evidence that she actually said these things, or that those words were said by her in sequence or even as part of the interview it was claimed as. People pointed this out to you multiple times. It was a very easy thing to see that what you were saying was incorrect, and you started just blatantly insulting everyone who was correcting you on your factual error, whether they were correcting you patiently or not.
This is not a matter of any factual ambiguity. You were just wrong, you made a factually incorrect claim that was easy to verify as false. You could not accept even the most simple of corrections about the most nonambiguous of false claims on your behalf.
You were asked for a timestamp in the video because people (myself included) wanted to know when in the video was the event you were claiming was happening. The demand is neither stupid nor difficult (well, unless you're not intelligent enough to provide a timestamp, I suppose). You just provide the time in the youtube slider where the event occurs. It's so easy youtube even offers rightclick "link to this time in video" function.
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quote:Sam, making predictions is one thing. It is always understood that unless one is a prophet, there is always the possibility of being wrong
And also, okay, Ron, is this an admission that in those discussions you were wrong and I was right? Is this something you can admit to?
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quote: No one proved that what was quoted in the video did not say what I said it did. Someone made the unreasonable demand that I calculate the exact second in the video when the words were spoken. Of course I ignored such a stupid demand. That proved nothing. It was a short video, and anyone who is honest can hear it for him/herself. Claiming otherwise only demonstrates your own fundamental dishonesty.
You do know that youtube prints the times at the bottom of the screen, right?
You like the bible, right? Don't they number every sentence? How is this any different?
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: No such thing was ever proven, Rakeesh. You certainly didn't. Most people like you in this forum seems to have no understanding of sound logic and appreciation of what constitutes genuine facts, nor how to weigh them. The only "evidence" you have ever been able to cite is fools quoting fools quoting each other. I really look forward to the end of the imperial Obama presidency when a different administration will authorize responsible and thorough investigations of all the facts. A lot of felonies have been committed to put Obama into office, and a lot of people deserve to be sent to prison.
predictionsthatwillneverhappen.txt
[ February 19, 2014, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Elison R. Salazar ]
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Ron....you don't make me mad. You make me sad.
It's just pathetic that someone like you actually believes that stuff, and honestly thinks that people like me are lying when they point out your intellectual dishonesty because we require this liberal slander called proof.
Blayne.....just because you see it might be true doesn't mean it should be said. If you would like me to demonstrate a number of true statements (that don't NEED to be said) about your personality or behavior, I'd be glad to demonstrate.
I love the fact that according to Ron I fail "to make logically valid arguments". Me....the guy who worked at USAMRIID, in biological containment labs, using ACTUAL SCIENCE to develop medical treatments and vaccines.....the one who is a nurse, engaged in using observation and quantifiable data to help DR's diagnose actual diseases and injuries.....but I somehow " Lack mental discipline" when it comes to research and validating proofs?
I am somehow the problem? LOL.
Let me know if you ever think well of me, Ron. I will change direction the moment you do, because I will have obviously be heading into crazy land.
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posted
Not helping. Is there a part in particular or the whole thing, the part where I call him a freeper of the part where I say he's racist? I'm going to roll the dice and assume the latter.
[ February 19, 2014, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Elison R. Salazar ]
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