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Author Topic: Overhauling the "Engine"
cvgurau
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An apt subject title, I think.

Allow me to explain.

To put it delicately, my WIP leaves much to be desired.

To put it not so delicately, it sucks the big pickle.

See, I've thought about it, and I've thought about it, and I've thought about it, and...you get the picture. I haven't worked on it for a while, because all my writing energies dedicated to the project have been allocated to reworking the story into not sucking so much. And I've come to a realization: the story has no plot. Not a thread of an overall design. Nothing. It is, to work with the subject analogy, a car without an engine. You can push it down a hill, and it'll move, but it won't move fast, and it will eventually stop without getting you to your destination.

So I'm going to overhaul the engine. I'm going to go back and fix the bad parts, and I'm going to add plot, and suspense, and characters, and I'm going to expand the roles of previous characters, and on, and on, and on.

Hopefully, when I'm done, the story will suck a little less.

But I'm not here to brag. I'm not here to tell you how smart I am that I've figured it out, that I've diagnosed the problem and am working towards the solution. No. The real reason for this post is that, though I've made the diagnosis, and though I know what I have to do, I don't have clue one where to start. I know I have to do all these things that will make my story more interesting, and bearable, and maybe even exciting, and suspenseful, and funny, and poignant, and...just better, but every time I open the document, I'm filled with such an overwhelming dread and creative emptiness that it leads me to believe that the muse is not only on vacation, or dead, but that he's maybe locked in his closet, curled in a fetal position, and sucking his thumb, going "They're coming to get me, they're coming to get me."

This is not an inspiring thought.

Indeed, it almost feels as if the story is hanging onto this mortal coil by it's last two fingers, and Tweety Bird is prying on them, saying "This widdle piddy went to the market..."

Also not very inspiring.

Having said that...

Any thoughts? Hints? Magic words that will revitalize my story and put it on the NYTimes bestseller list?

I'd truly appreciate it. Seriously. I could put your names on the dedication page, next to God, my mom, various teachers who made high school a little more bearable (there are reasons I'll mention this, but I don't really wnat to go into them) and...I don't know. Guttenberg, perhaps.

CVG


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Doc Brown
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Plot is all about conflict.

You need to have some major conflict that starts very early in the book, preferrably in the first chapter. If this is your first book you should probably keep that conflict going until the last chapter (in later books you can go for a more complex structure). Every chapter should turn up the heat, as things look more and more hopeless for the protagonist and the reader wonders why he/she doesn't just give up.

The protagonist should not win any battles until the last chapter. If he/she does win a battle in a middle chapter he/she should lose something even more valuable or end up in a worse position. For example Luke Skywalker rescues the Princess but loses Obi-Wan, or Kirk outsmarts Khan but the Enterprise is crippled.

The scenes when your protagonist comes face-to-face with your antagonist will be your reader's favorites. Give them some buildup. Have at least one character anticipate such meetings. Protagonists (or their loved ones) should dread these encounters, antagonists should prepare to make them as unpleasant as possible for protagonists.

Do these things and you will have a plot. Don't do these things and you will have a slice of life.


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punahougirl84
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Letting all that out should have helped a little - getting those thoughts out and written down.

Now I have a question. Who thinks your WIP sucks? You? Your readers? You and your readers? Do those opinions refer to the whole thing, or just bits? Now another - is this worth saving, or should this count as practice, something to learn from, and not something to be published?

Should you just chuck it and start anew?

Ok, how did you react to this? Is it actually ok in some parts, but needing work? Do you and your readers feel there are parts worth saving? Enough that putting it in a file and moving on isn't just an issue of killing your BIG darling but truely feeling you have something? Because it is ok if you need to move on (yeah, I know, easy for me to say!).

But if you really feel it is worth saving, then it does NOT suck, and don't say that. Consider yourself struck with a big self-esteem stick.

Now take a deep breath. Go on. Really. Ok?

You need to slow down, and take this in manageable chunks. Put your work away, and don't touch it for at least a week (more if you can). Then, get out a fresh piece of paper and pen. Can you say (in simple sentences):
- Who is the story about?
- Where is it set?
- What happens (the conflict)?
- When does it happen?
- Why does it happen?
- How is it resolved?
- Does it have a beginning, middle, and end? What are they?
- Why should a reader care - what is the point - how does it resolve to our satisfaction?

Rewriting does mean looking back at your story, not just to proofread, but to see your threads, your theme, and to go back and make them stronger by adding stuff, and to ruthlessly delete stuff that doesn't help the story. Maybe this means going back and strengthening the plot - making it more obvious, and adjusting what you've written to hang better from your structure. You may now understand your characters better, and can go back and pump up their motivations. You might delete needless backstory.

It sounds like you think you have a lot to fix. Maybe you do. Maybe you don't. You just need to organize your attack - don't face the whole thing head on. It's driving you nutty. Make a plan. Outline your story, with scene descriptions. Find a way to get your mind around what you've done. Work backwards from the ending if you must.

Did you write down all those ideas you have to make it better? Did you write each one separately onto its own index card? Are they organized on a nice clean table/whatever so you can see how they fit into the whole?

Go back to the basics. You don't need a muse (don't you think you were creative in your e-mail?). You've already done the writing. Don't open the whole thing. Save it by chapters, then only open one chapter at a time. Don't let it overwhelm you. Control the story.

All that matters, is CVG.

[This message has been edited by punahougirl84 (edited June 29, 2004).]


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Balthasar
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The first thing you need is a dramatic question -- Will Frodo destroy the Ring? If you don't have a dramatic question, you don't have a story.

Notice, the dramatic question has either an yes or no for the answer. The answer to the above question is, No, Frodo doesn't destory the Ring. The Ring is destoryed, yes, but Frodo doesn't do it.

This is an important point. The dramatic question MUST include the protagonist. You can't simply ask, Will the Ring be destoryed? That won't hold the reader. The hero must be included in the question.

Once you have that, you're off.

But before you start over, I'd suggest you put the thing away for two months. Work on something else--some short stories or a novella. Anything besides your novel. Don't even think about. When you start thinking about it, stop--as hard as that might be. In two months, at the beginning of September, take it out and read what you have. You might be surprised.

Even if you're not, you'll be fresh when you start over.


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Survivor
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"Destoryed"

Well, that one's new to me.

Don't concentrate on what you don't have. Ask yourself what you do have. Perhaps you have milieu, and events, and exciting prose. Or maybe only a couple of the above.

Still, I presume that you have something. If you've decided that it doesn't have a structure and so forth, then don't worry about "fixing" it. This is a wonderful source of raw material. Use it that way.


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MaryRobinette
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I'm also going to suggest that when you come back to it in two months that you do not open the file. Start from scratch. If you hit a point where you think, "Hey! I've written this scene already," then you can go get the material out of the old version.

I had the exact same thing happen to me, and everytime I tried to fix my existing draft I got bogged down. But, when I started it over, I had a clearer vision of where I needed to go.

[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited June 30, 2004).]


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EricJamesStone
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There's some advice from OSC that might be helpful here: http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/2000-08-02-1.shtml

I was recently at Dave Wolverton's novel-writing workshop, and one of the things he talked about was that characters should have a try-fail cycle -- in fact, your main characters should have at least three before the climax.

That means your character has a goal, and he should try to achieve that goal and fail, try and fail again, try and fail again.

That goal might be something ambitious, like get the Ark of the Covenant. Or it might be simple, like get back to leading a normal life.


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Kolona
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What were your thoughts when you started this WIP? Where were you going with it? What excited you about it enough to get you to commit it to paper (or disk)? At what point did you lose that excitement? Backtrack a bit and try to find the road not taken.
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wetwilly
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Wow, Doc Brown and Balthasar, how...formulaic. Personally I like the "think of my own ideas" school of writing, but that's just me.
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Monolith
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I've thought of doing that to my story, even trying to write it in 1st person POV, maybe even going in another direction. But that might be down the road. But do what you wanna do. That's my advice to you.

-BHJr-

[This message has been edited by Monolith (edited July 01, 2004).]


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Balthasar
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Well, wetwilly, a story having a dramatic question isn't a formula, it's a fact of fiction. Every story asks a dramatic question, and every dramatic question has a yes or no answer. If you don't have a dramatic question, you don't have a story.
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Survivor
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The "think of his own ideas" school of writing, that probably explains a few things

C'mon, I'm just razzing you a bit.


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wetwilly
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That's what I get for posting right after I get off work: I can't think of anything to say but sarcasm. Of course you're right, Balthasar--a dramatic question isn't a formula, it's that difference between a story and rambling. A thousand apologies.
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Gen
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I'd agree with the idea of putting it away for a while. When you're this close, there's no way for you to adequately evaluate the material. Once some time's gone by, you'll be able to see more clearly how to fix it-- or if the overhauls are such that you're basically writing an entirely new novel.
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Lullaby Lady
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I am humbling and actually submitting some writing advice... (Don't hold your breath, folks!)

What if you leave it alone, go on vacation, or a drive, or watch an inspiring film or play, then sit down and start something new and completely different. Then, go back and read your former work, followed by the new one. Are there things that you can combine, like characters or conflicts, etc.? Then you wouldn't be completely abandoning the old story, yet you get to work with some new ideas.

I know I've read somewhere here that OSC sometimes combines different stories to make a new whole. It might be worth a try... (Ooh-- that gives me an idea!)

~L.L.


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Pyre Dynasty
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Hide it from yourself and try to write it again. If it turns in a new direction then go with it.
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Doc Brown
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And wetwillie, do you also think that the necessity of conflict in plot makes it formulaic? I don't think you can have a plot without conflict. Conflict is in the nature of plot.

You might say that rising tension is a bit formulaic, though it seems silly to bother saying so. Technically you can probably write a plot without rising tension, but no one will want to read it.


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Lord Darkstorm
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Will wonders never cease? I agree with Balthasar....That's scarry. But I would like to point out that when I read it, I still got a formula type feel from it. So I think the problem was in the way it was writen, not the content.

As for the original question, put it away. Work on something completely different. Get it out of your mind, when you go back to it later problems will almost jump out at you.

LDS


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cvgurau
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I'd like to put it away. I would. But it haunts me. The thing just won't give me any peace, and I don't really mind, but it keeps me from working on anything else. It's weird. I'll be running, or drawing, or even taking a shower, and a snippet of dialogue, or characterization, or plot will just come to me, as if it's been plucked from the creative ether, or faxed into my head from God.

That's a lot of ors.

But I digress.

I think this qualifies as an obsession, right?

Otherwise, good advice, all. Thanks.

PHG--When I say it sucks, I don't mean the whole thing. No, what I meant was that where I'm at right now, the story sucks. I can't stand it, and will just delete the entire scene. It's an unnecessary scene that puts me to sleep just thinking about it. Other parts also suck, of course, but in general, I think the story itself is pretty original, and if I can work some of the excitement I feel about it into the actual novel, then I think it'll be a good read.


Now. Some have said to chuck the whole thing. This thought amuses me. I've done this with so many stories so many times, that if I did it again, I'd be falling off the "Don't start this crap again" wagon. Each version of every story I've ever done two or three or even four times has its merits and faults, but when I go back to the first one, I do so with some bewilderment, as I can't remember why I started over in the first place. Because it ain't half bad.

Well, it's been a couple of weeks (I think), so I'm going to try again. I'm going to read the whole thing (a bit of an undertaking, at more than 72K words), editing here and there, and doing what I can to make it more interesting. I think I have the plot worked out, to a degree. I'll introduce the villain a little earlier, for sure, and expand the roles of characters who previously seemed less than auxiliary. In retrospect, I think I minimized their roles to make the realization of their importance near the end more of a shock, but I so shrunk them that they're almost background characters. D'oh. And I can think of a whole plotline I can kill off without any guilt, so unnecessary was it. Oh well.

Anyway, it's late, and I'm rambling, and I tend to do that, unless you stop me. Especially when it's late.

Thanks, all, for the good advice, even if I disagreed with some of it.

CVG

PS--I've thought about it, and I've decided that if I ever get published (if, not when, because I figure it'll be a while before I grow the huevos to actually submit anything, putting my baby into the world to succeed or fail; it takes a lot of chutzpah (I'm not even sure if these are real words ) to realize that some editor might laugh his head off at your possibly pitiful attempt and still have the cohones to submit anything. I realize this, and admire those of you who can. I just can't. Not yet.) I'll add, on the dedication page, something that amounts to "To all the writers at Hatrack. Just because." Or something like that. *shrug*

Maybe I'm just a sentimental bastard of a fool.


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Balthasar
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If Lord D. agrees with me, perhaps I should rethink the notion.

I suppose it does sound like a fomula, but I don't know why. It seems to state the obvious: A story must have characters, a story much have conflict, and a story must have a dramatic question that ties the two together. Or to put it in another way, the dramatic question is simply stating the plot as a question.

I'd like to make a clairification. A dramatic question has three possible answers, not two. Yes, no, or maybe.

Will Frodo destory the Ring? No.

Will Indy find the Lost Ark? Yes.

Will Luke learn the ways of the force and destory the Empire? Maybe.

Well, it's a maybe in Star Wars that becomes a yes in Jedi. This is one reason why the Original Trilogy is so good: all three movies are united by one central dramatic question. This isn't the case with the god-awful Prequels.

[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited July 02, 2004).]


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goatboy
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quote:
This isn't the case with the god-awful Prequels

I have only seen one of the prequels, but that assessment is basically the same as mine. Which is why I haven't seen the others.


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wetwilly
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Doc Brown, it's not the concept of conflict that nakes it formulaic. It's all the details you prescribed.

Start the conflict in the 1st chapter. Resolve conflict in last chapter. Every chapter steps it up. Protagonist wins no battles until last chapter, when protagonist finally wins. Exception: protagonist wins a battle in the middle, but ends up worse off than before. Etc.

Doesn't leave much room for personal input from the author. A lot of great stories can be (and probably have been) ruined by trying to cram them into such a prescribed formula.


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MaryRobinette
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Name one that doesn't follow that formula to some degree.
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Doc Brown
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Wetwilly:

Paraphrasing myself, if this is your first book you should consider using a simple structure, of which I gave an example. I clearly encouraged a more complex structure for later books.

If my response at the top of this thread looked like Doc Brown's complete recipe for all fiction writing, then perhaps I packaged it poorly.


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babylonfreek
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Ok, resurrecting that post for my own two bits.

Note: these are only opinions, not The One Absolute Truth. No need to shoot me.

As to the (perceived) problems of formulas. It's been said there are only 4 plots (or themes I forget) Man vs Man, Man vs Himself, Man vs Nature, Man vs Technology. Others have advanced there are only, depending on who you listen to, 6, 10, 20, 35 or 50 plots.

Since there are more than 50 books out there, I guess we can assume there is overlap.

Formulas work, when they do, because they are familiar. The good thing about formula is you can surprise the reader by turning them upside down. Formulas get a bad rep because there is a lot of badly written books using formulas. I am sure, however, that there are plenty of badly written books that didn't use formulas.

I tend to think of architacture here. There are only so many ways for a buiding to stand up. But between the Eiffel Tower, the Seattle Space Needle and the Empire State Building, it's kind of hard to say, "oh, its all based on the same formulas." Hopefully they are using the formulas that involve gravity and stuff!

That said.

I'd like to add some words about that whole "the hero can't win a single fight until the end."

I would tend to disagree. Whether the guy is supposed to save himself (in a psychological way) a friend, or the Universe, he can't just appear to be a total loser. He needs at LEAST one, minor victory. If he can't win a small fight, if you don't show that he has some level of competence, how is that loser going to save himself, his friend or the Universe when the REAL challenge come knocking

Seriously. I think you need to established at least a minimal level of competence. If the guy is clueless throughout, I am going to really doubt him coming through at the end. No?

The Khan exemple. If Kirk doesn't show he can outsmart Khan in at least some small way once, how are we to believe he can beat the crap out of him later.

*Blinds himself with a black ribbon, smokes last cigarette*

Ready, Aim...


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rickfisher
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babylon, I agree completely. The essence of suspense is not knowing. If the hero is hopelessly overwhelmed, well, he's going to lose. Why keep reading? (Even if there's some trick he has up his sleeve that lets him win in the end, many readers won't get to the end to find out about it.) The hero has to be grasping at straws, struggling to defeat the villain (or live through the cataclysm, or whatever), but it should never seem totally impossible. Having a few minor victories along the way is one way to keep the readers' hopes up.

Edit: By "not knowing" I mean uncertainty. There's no suspense at all if you don't know there's danger, for example.

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited July 18, 2004).]


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