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Author Topic: Concussion
MaryRobinette
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Has anyone here had a concussion? I'm doing research on the effects of a level 3 concussion but would like descriptions that are a little more colorful than "mild organic disfunction" and "electrophysiologic abnormalities".

Thanks.


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mikemunsil
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yep, what do you want to know? actually i was semi-comatose and 'missed' out on some of the earlier more fun side effects, but I can tell you what I experienced.
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J
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I've been knocked out a couple times. What do you want to know?
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MaryRobinette
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I'm interested in:
The visual effects--double-vision, blurring, etc.
vertigo--how intense
nausea--What kind? Constant? Waves tied to movement or vision?
retrograde amnesia--Were you confused when you woke up, but figured it out fast? Missing a chunk of time?

My only experience with non-sleep unconciousness was anethesia when I had my wisdom teeth taken out. That seemed more like a jump-cut in a film than anything else.

Thanks. Or if anyone can recommend a good resource on this. I'm finding mostly medical texts which aren't as personal in their descriptive choices as I'd like.


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Minister
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Perhaps the most striking point about my worst concussion was that I didn't realize how it was affecting me. It wasn't until I tried reconstituting the event later that I realized I was "missing" a block of time (I still don't know exactly how long). I didn't even realize how my balance was affected at first, either (I was stumbing around off balance, but didn't have the presence of mind to realize that it was not my normal mode of locomotion). My head didn't really hurt, even though it was bloody and swelling in both the front and back. And my mind was jarred back into the context of events that had taken place probably five minutes or so earlier (the first thing I remember doing after coming to was stumbling around looking for the ball -- but my friends and I had switched to throwing an aerobie several minutes before the accident), but I had no clue that I wasn't doing precisely what I was doing a moment before the accident. Nausea was never a problem, and the aches and pains didn't hit until a good little while after I came to.
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MaryRobinette
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Wow! See, this is great and exactly what I'm looking for. (Oh, um, and ouch, that doesn't sound pleasant.) So, it sounds like your awareness kicked in after you were already ambulatory, is that right?
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mikemunsil
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I'm not sure about the first few days, as I had amnesia, and regarding pain I was so broken up in so many places that I was mostly drugged into oblivion. So, I can mostly only speak about the longer term effects. Which means, that perhaps it has nothing to do wiht a concussion, as I understand that most concussions are short-term.

Anyway, I first 'woke up' about a week after the accident, tied down into a hospital bed and with no clue who I was or what had happened to me. After several hours a nurse came by and seeing that I was awake, asked me my name. I was unable to tell her who I was, where I lived, or anything about my past. That went on for several more days, and then I started to remember more. After several months I remembered enough of my former life to have a kind of patchwork quilt memory that tied seemingly unrelated events together. However, my short term memory (say, up to about 12 hours or so) was severely impaired for about 8 months more. I had recovered enough to get a job and I would often, at the end of the day, go to leave for home and panic when I realized I didn't remember where home was. I didn't dare admit that to my coworkers, for fear of their derision and for fear of losing my job (I was only 18), so I would just leave and wander around for a while, hoping to see something familiar. After I got desperate enough, I would sit myself down and have a hard think about the situation. Eventually I would ask myself if I wouldn't have considered that when I got up in the morning, and start to search my clothes and belongings for clues. After a bit I would find my trusty notes that I had written down about how to find my way home, and generally upon reading the notes I would remember, and finally go gome. That lasted about a year.

I still suffer from a bit of short-term memory loss. Mostly people think I'm just absent-minded. But I function.

Hope that provides some grist for your mill.

mm


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MaryRobinette
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That has to be high on the list of the most terrifying experiences I've heard of. (colorful expletive) I had not considered putting my protagonist through something that awful, but you have provided me with more grist for my mill than I thought possible.

Is it an uncomfortable time for you to talk about? I feel creepy asking you questions.


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Kickle
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My experience was on a minor scale, much more like Ministers discription. I hit my head and blacked out for only for a matter of seconds( two black eyes and a bruised forehead). For several days I was slightly disoriented,had a slight headache and nausea. I really thought the ice pack had done its job. It was about three days later when I realized just how confused I was- I had a problem with keeping track of time. So I went to the doctor.He told me to watch out for the symptoms that were disappearing by then.

[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited January 12, 2005).]


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wetwilly
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I was knocked out as a child playing outside with my brother, or so I'm told. I don't remember the event, waking up afterwards, or playing outside before I fell. Altogether, probably a couple hours of time surrounding the fall. Apparently I fell and hit my head on the curb.

After I woke up, my memory of the present was scrambled for the rest of that day, too. I kept asking if I could go to my friend Erik's house because I didn't remember that I had been hurt. I kept asking my Mom over and over all day because I had no recollection of having already asked her. I remember asking her over and over, but at the time I didn't remember having already asked.

As far as I remember, no nausea or anything like that.


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Minister
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As far as awareness goes, it depends on what level; as quickly as I was on my feet, I was aware of my surroundings, and what I was doing. But connecting what I was doing with what I had been doing, that took a few minutes. I could still remember my name and where I lived (my friends kept asking; people have got to come up with some other questions -- those two get monotonous!). I could frame a sentence. It was relationships that I didn't have a grasp on. Two consectutive sentences might have made perfect sense by themselves, but have no connection to each other. What I was doing after I hit the pole had no connection to what I was doing immediately before. (By the way, basketball goal posts and diving catches for aerobie disks make a bad, bad mix, just in case anyone was wondering.)
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Tess
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Mike, your story is incredible. Sounds like we're luck to have you with us.

I was hit by a drunk driver about 20 years ago, before they stiffened the laws on the offense. I still have the picture of my wrecked car, and it’s humbling to think how I almost ended up as a statistic.

He ran a stoplight and broadsided my Volkswagon Carman Ghia with a van as I was waiting to take a left hand turn. I lost my memory of two or three hours before the accident permanently, and don't remember a thing about the accident or the ambulance ride. The first clear memory was in the emergency room. I came to on a table with the doctors and a bright light over me. They were giving me stitches on my temple, where I took the brunt of the impact. I tried to ask what was going on and touch my head, but the doctor was impatient with me and had a nurse hold my arms. Apparently that was no the first time I had questioned them, only the first time I remembered the questions. I wasn't functioning for a day or two later, and it was closer to a week before I began to feel normal again. The next memory after the hospital was in bed at home, with TV at my disposal. I remember my head feeling heavy, and my thoughts were thick and cloudy. I felt weak and slightly dizzy when I lifted my head. I remember this much so clearly these many years later, because so many people were interested in the effects of the concussion, I told the story many times. My memory didn’t become consistent until at least the third day home.

The best story was told by my then future husband, who was riding in the passenger seat, and escaped unharmed. After experiencing the trauma of the headlights coming straight on, and the sound of crunching metal on impact, he looked over to see if I was alright. Apparently I was slumped over, still strapped in by the seatbelt, but I didn’t breathe right away. He feared the worst, and yelled to wake me. He said it seemed forever before I finally took a deep breath. Once the emergency crew used the jaws-of-life to get me out, he said I seemed alert, even able to stand, even though they kept me seated or reclined. I kept on asking the same question over and over: “what happened?” He said he’d explain it to me, and I would seem to understand, even react, and then a few minutes later ask again. My family still laughs at one of my more common response, “Oh my God, don’t tell my mother.” Apparently the pattern of forgotten questions survived all the way to the emergency room, to the point that the doctor considered me a “difficult” patient.

Hope a firsthand tale helps.


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J
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I have nothing like Mike's situation, but I've been knocked out a couple of times.

Once boxing--I hadn't trained enough, and when the fight got into the late rounds I didn't have the energy to keep my hands up high. I remember watching that big red boxing glove come hurtling at my face once, twice, then the next thing I knew I was yanking myself away from some nasty smelling salts.

According to friends, my opponent landed four clean crosses to my face before the ref stopped the fight (quality officiating, there). But I only remember the first two.
Afterwards, the thing I remember most was the nausea when I woke up. It was persistent, debilitating. I wanted to stop and throw up every three steps or so. Coupled with the dizziness, it was very like the worst hangover I've ever had, which is a story for another thread.

The other time I got knocked out I lost a street fight and got my head bounced off the curb. The symptoms were the same; blackout, memory loss for the last few seconds before getting knocked out, persistent nausea and dizziness after.

Oh; and after the boxing knockout, I was giddy; almost high. But that might have been the endorphins from all the physical exertion that preceded me getting my bell rung.

[This message has been edited by J (edited January 12, 2005).]


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Survivor
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Huh. You know, I've never been knocked out. Probably the most serious blow to the head I ever suffered was when I took a corner a bit fast on my bike and crashed. The forks on my motorcycle were never the same, and I hit my head pretty hard when I went over. Of course I was wearing a helmet, so that probably helped quite a bit (helped save my head, not the forks). I didn't lose consciousness at all, anyway.

But then, I was a classic headbanger as a kid, I'd throw tantrums and whack my head on things for effect. One time my cousin went a bit too far teasing me and I chased him into my aunt's bedroom. When he locked the door I rammed it with my head until there was a hole big enough for me to crawl through, but by then he'd retreated to the master bath. I'd only just gotten started on that door when the adults came back.

Up until I was at least ten my head was my secret weapon when it came to fighting (or ramming through walls and stuff). So to me, the idea of being knocked out by a blow to the head is actually kind of counterintuitive. I know that this is a good way to beat a human opponent, but the idea it could work on me just seems silly.

Probably everyone who's never been knocked out feels that way, eh?


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drosdelnoch
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I would also suggest the fact that trying to stay on your feet is difficult to start with as your head just spins. (all to do with that liquid thats in the ears).

My sister was hit by a car around a decade ago, when that happened, she lost most things, how to speak, write, walk, and even now suffers from severe nightfrights (worse than nightmares,) and has an extremely bad memory for anything. She has got better and relearned everything although if asked to do something quickly like maths doesnt have a clue as to what it means let alone be able to do it.

She tends to shop online for the food and stuff that she wants and have it delivered as she has what she has to spend written down and just checks the figures at the end, keeps things quite easy that way. She's still improving but when tired her speech is severely slurred, making her sound drunk. Dont know if that helps you any though.


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mikemunsil
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Not a problem, MaryRobinette. Many people have had it a LOT harder than I ever did. I count myself lucky in many ways, firstly because it wasn't worse, secondly because I was still eventually able to go on to college, and thirdly (is that a word?) because by not being able to depend upon everyday memory and experiences I had to learn to think my way through things. This has stood me in good stead for most of my life.

So, ask any questions you feel like asking, ask away; it won't bother ME!

Survivor, mine was a motorcycle accident also. My helmet was cracked clean in two, and the forks on my bike were tucked back under the frame! Wish I knew what happened to do that, but I don't remember and they found me lying in the road a day or so after the accident, so apparently no one was there to see what happened, or else they didn't care to report it.

Such is life. At least it hasn't been boring.


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HuntGod
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Well I've been unconscious twice in my life and oddly enough I don't recall much about it.

Once when I was 14, I ran my motorcycle into a tree and went head first into another tree (thank you helmet) I came too shortly and noticed no significant impairment, aside from the momentary confusion of why I was laying on my back looking at clouds.

The second was at 30, when my tire blew out on a back road at 60mph sending my Expedition careening into the treeline (if I had been in a regular vehicle and not this oversized tank of an SUV, I would have been killed). I awoke in the dark and crawled from the vehicle, through my shattered window, to the roadside where I flagged down a car. I believe I was out for around 30 minutes, but suffered not major head trauma. I did get 72 stitches in my left arm though and severely bruised my hips and chest. I can remember being very disoriented which was exacerbated by it being pitch black and my having lost my glassed in the accident.

Not sure if that helps or not.


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MaryRobinette
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If nothing else, I am realizing how very, very lucky I have been.

I'm also wanting to rethink the chapter in question and make the concussion a larger part of the story. It deals, at least in part, with the intransience of memory and this thread is providing me with a lot more than I bargained for. I was mostly wanting accuracy in my writing, but now I'm having a thematic aha! moment.

Back to my questions, in a lot of ways, the memory loss isn't accompanined by a black space, it's more of a jump cut. Is that a good way to think of it? Is part of the disorientation that your last concious memory does not match your current action?


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mikemunsil
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quote:
with the intransience of memory

transient nature of memory? 'cause intransient would mean it didn't change, no?

intransigent memory??

Foul, irksome memory! Get thee hence ere I rip thee screaming from thy fitful womb!


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Tess
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I think the key word here is memory. Just because you lost the memory of a particular time period doesn't mean you didn't think and feel at the time. I lost my memory of a good two hours of normal activitiy that occured before the accident.

If there's a jump cut, it's in the recolection, not in events. I had to depend on others to fill in the blanks.

Remember, the disorientation is due to a swelling of the brain. It need time to recover, and that's assuming no permanent damage. You often lose short term memory. When you come to, you still have much healing to do, and know it. At least I did. It's like waking up after being asleep for a period of time, but no dream recollection. I was able to come too just enough to realize I had gone through something, and there's a fear response associated, because you want to know what's happened. I remember struggling to piece it together, getting started, and then being so tired that I could only grasp the basics.


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Tess
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Good job, Mike. I didn't catch that. Does this have anything to do with selective memory?
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MaryRobinette
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Ha! sorry mike. I meant transient.

I think I might post the first thirteen lines of the chapter in question after I tweak it a little.

The two main characters in the story are an AI, who gets hacked (I am waaaay over-simplifying this) and a detective. The detective gets hit on the head at one point in the story and I'm starting to think that I should give him a worse concussion than I had planned. There are some parallels that would be interesting to explore.

I've just got to figure out how to write it.


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dpatridge
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i've never had a concussion in my life that i am aware of (of course, at 19, that isn't a very long time )

however, i did have an accident in phys ed once back in elementary school that resulted in some similar experiences.

we were running laps around the gymn and i kind of slipped and tripped up at the same time, immediately followed by a sliding, my knee struck against something (i still think it was a loose floor board with a nail attached, although they never did find it.)

anyways, one of the most interesting things about it all is that i never did lose a sense of time flow, it went wonky, but it never blacked out. the wierdest thing of all is that i had a definite sense of something bad about to happen just before the event. i still do not understand that.

i dragged myself bleeding over to the teacher who was busy with something else, i can't remember. i kept trying to get his attention, and when i finally had it, things started going VERY quickly. i was asked who i'd like to accompany me and i asked for my sister just about 2 years older than myself (she jokes around thanking me for the time off school to this day)

events became jumbled at this point, until i was in the ambulance, and then i remember people asking me how i was doing, and i remember that i was laying on my sister. they put some fluids or something into me and then i slipped into the netherworld again (for some reason drugs never have put me under, they just make me feel weird)

when we got to the ER i stopped fighting and just let things go. i didn't "wake up" until the next day, and then i had a leg with over a dozen stitches in the knee and wrapped with enough medical gauze that it seemed endless. i couldn't walk unaided for a month... and people just would NOT leave me alone. being a loner by nature, that was the absolute worst part of the experience, being babied.

it turns out that i cut my knee in an arch clean to the bone. i'm told that it was miraculous that i had enough in me to make my way to the teacher and kept myself to for as long as i did. *shrugs*

people are supposed to pass out even when their injury is nowhere near the head?


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mikemunsil
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dpatridge

Classic example of going into shock.


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Jefficus
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I haven't thought about my "head injury collection" in years. To answer your question about jump cut vs. black out, my experiences have all been pretty consistent.

Step 1: Injury occurs (rarely do I have any recollection of the event)

Step 2: Momentary 'pulses' of clarity, with accompanying memories.

Step 2 repeats with increasing regularity.

Step 3: Usually after sleeping, perception returns to normal.

During the Step 2 phase, short term memory is always impaired. I have one amusing family story of asking my father 15 times in 20 minutes what time it was. I simply didn't remember that I'd already asked. (To this day my parents believe I was faking.)

Another illuminating aspect of that particular incident is something that happened during Step 2.

The injury originally occured while I was killing time with friends before playing hockey. An hour later, the game started.
Step 2 starts about half way through the game. I have flashes of memories up until the last minute of the game. I remember scoring a goal in the last minute. But I did so from my stomach while sliding way to fast towards the post. Last clear memory is a large post approaching my face. Return to Step 1.

A good way to think about all of this (memory vs. real-time perception) is that there is no such thing as real time perception. You are sitting there reading this. Your only awareness is of HAVING read it. It's always after the fact. (Many theorists believe that conscious awareness is a half second behind real time. And the ways in which our brain fudges that time difference is really a cool topic.)

There is a theory in cognitive sciences that suggest that what we think of as conscious, realtime awareness is simply a matter of reviewing our most recent experiences and assigning meaning to them. Our consciousness is like an interpreter making up stories about our experiences based on the continuing flood of information as it gets written to memory. "Hmm. I see here that I have a new memory of going through the motions of shooting a puck. I see another new memory of the puck entering the net." My interpreter therefore constructs a self-story of having scored a goal.

Why tell you all this? Because, from the subjective experience, if you can't form short term memories, then there is nothing for your interpreter to do. You experience. You participate. You react. But you form no stories of your actions for yourself, from which your consciousness creates meaning from experience perceptions. So your conscious story teller experiences "dead air".

Hence, during Step 2, you have these 'hazy patches'. The flashes of memory are identical to the periods in which short-term memories were once again being formed in your brain and your interpreter could resume telling you stories about your experience.

Does that help?

Jefficus


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Kolona
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These accounts are amazing. The closest thing I experienced was getting hit in the head with a baseball bat when I stood too close to my brother as he batted. I was really young, but I remember instantly visualizing cracks running through my jaw, like in a cartoon. What happened next I don't remember. Too bad, in retrospect.

I hope you don't mind if I insert a question of my own here, Mary, but this has bugged me for a long time. Is it really a legitimate fighting maneuver or is it strictly a Hollywood invention when a brawler purposely hits his opponent's head with his own? That seems so stupid to me and counterproductive. I'd think they'd knock themselves out doing that.


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Netstorm2k
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I was hit in the face with a baseball bat while walking out of a Circle K when I was fifteen. Intentional, mind you...er, They hit me intentionally - I didn't intentionally get hit...
But all I remember is opening the door, looking back as the clerk said something, turning, and then waking up with my nose the size of a tomato, and about the same color. I couldn't stand straight; I kept sliding down when the clerk helped me up, and for the next few days everything was kinda distant. I think the only thing that made the memories last was the pain from my broken nose.

Another time I was knocked out was when I was in either kindergarten or first grade; I can't remember exactly. I was walking along the playground and I walked in front of the swings, and this girl - her name was Jennifer, odd thing to remember, but I remember seeing a blur of shoes, and then I was lying upright against one of those 'Y' arms of the swings - you all know what I mean - and the teacher who was watching the playground and a whole bunch of students were gathered around me.
Now, here's where my personality starts to show. I came back to consciousness, not hurt in the slightest that I can remember, but I kept my eyes closed when I came to, after seeing everything through slits.
And then, goofy boy that I was, I started making these little 'oohh' noises, like I was in pain, but not quite awake. It took about five minutes for the teacher to realize I was full of it.
But really, all I remember about that was the shoes, and then lying there with my eyes closed.
Now, in the third grade, I stepped off a curb in the winter, looked left, saw a big green car coming at me, and woke up in some lady's lap. I was so bundled up that I wasn't even hurt. I think my mind just blanked it out because of fear.
Funny thing is, it was a sheriff's deputy, off-duty, that knocked me ten feet into a snow drift.
Okay, flash-forward to when I was boxing in the Navy. Third and final round, I swung hard for this guy's head, right hook, all my body weight behind me like a dump truck coming downhill without brakes.
This guy, don't remember his name, but he had a gap-tooth, just drops out of sight, and the next thing I see is the top of his glove coming up at me, and then I remember flinching.
They said I was out for only five minutes, but all I can remember is drinking water through a straw the next day.
Needless to say, I lost the fight.
And that's only a few of the times I've been knocked out. But I've never been sick, or felt anything other than dizzy.
Except for passing out drunk, but that doesn't count...

[This message has been edited by Netstorm2k (edited January 21, 2005).]


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Jeraliey
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Yeah, it actually is legitimate...but not the way Hollywood portrays it. The aim of the move is to use your forehead against your opponent's nose. Yeah, it hurts the attacker, but (1) they're expecting it and (2) it hurts a lot less because a person's forehead is a lot harder than a person's nose.

When you're fighting, you use whatever you have free. If that's your head, you use your head.


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Survivor
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It's also legit if you're used to doing that sort of thing and your opponent isn't. You can go for the nose, but this is more difficult and you're levering your head on your neck, which takes away one of the major advantages to the attacker...let me back up a bit.

When you do a direct head-butt (forehead to forehead), you lock your own neck so that you're using the head, neck and torso as an integrated mass unit to ram just the head of an opponent. That gives you probably a five to one advantage in mass, which means that the other guy's head will change direction about five times as much as your head.

If the other guy is also a head-butting type and reacts quickly, that advantage can be negated pretty completely, but a direct head-butt is a very fast attack at very close quarters. Most people will not react in time, particularly if you do something limb-grabby-twisty when setting up the head-butt.

Still, there are a lot of risks. If you were trying to head-butt me, for instance, you'd almost certainly just knock yourself out. If the person is a bit shorter than you and thinks quickly, then you could accidentally invert that fore-head-nose thing J mentioned and get a knee in your groin. And so one and so forth.


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Jeraliey
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Hee hee, I guess I think like a short person...most people's noses would be the only head target in reach for me, if that!
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Kolona
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So I'd wonder how often a head-butt knocks out the opponent, and how often a head butter knocks himself out by mistake. That's something you never see on tv.
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Survivor
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Usually a person who is experienced enough to use a head-butt in a real fight will win the head-butt. There's a bit of selective pressure here, if your first try doesn't work, you're far less likely to ever try it again. You're probably also very unlikely to try it if you've ever gotten a serious concussion or anything like that. So most people that try it and keep doing it are the kind that will usually win a head-butt.

It isn't a really great move or anything like that. If it doesn't come naturally to you, then it's not something you should try to learn.


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Netstorm2k
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A little bit about head-butting:
Anyone who's ever played soccer can tell you about the difference between heading a ball, and getting hit in the head with the ball. It's a matter of momentum. If you get hit head in the head with the ball, it's going to hurt. If you jump, say during a chip kick, and head the ball, you're putting out enough force with your neck that the ball is redirected, and you don't get knocked on your keister.
The same thing applies in a fight, except the human skull is harder than a soccer ball.

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MaryRobinette
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I continue to be amazed at the variety of experiences that people have had here. I am definitely rewriting that scene and rethinking part of the novel too. Wow.

My only experience that's even remotely close was general anesthesia when I had my wisdom teeth out. It was like a jump cut, except I was groggy afterwords. It was like this.
I was staring at the ceiling light. The dentist said "I'm going to count backwards. 10--" Then everything was dark; someone said, "Mary?" and I opened my eyes.

I did have some memory dropouts when I was in college from sleep deprivation, which was pretty freaky.

Oh, Survivor, is "limb-grabby-twisty" a technical term?


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Survivor
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Yes. Yes it is

They had a face mask sitting there attached to a cannister when I was getting my wisdom teeth taken out. I was looking that over when somebody asked me to stretch out my left arm, and then he injected something rather than drawing blood.

I had just enough time to turn to him and ask what that was, and hear the word "anesthetic" before I woke up upside-down in an empty room with the setting sun shining in my eyes. I turned over and promptly spit my sodden, limp tongue out onto the floor with a sickening "plop".

Closer examination revealed that it wasn't really my tongue, just a remarkable likeness made of a couple of yards of gauze wrapped around wadded cotton and soaked liberally in blood and spit. But the pain in my mouth couldn't have been worse if it had been my tongue lying there on the floor.


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MaryRobinette
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Ah...I've done a little research on it now, and see that limb-twisty-grabby thing is often used to counter the limb-dodging-flailing thing.

Your account of the wisdom teeth experience made me laugh. Which is inappropriate since I was incredibly lucky with my teeth.. I had no pain at all. None. I didn't even open the medication they gave me. But, my teeth had come in straight and were exposed, they just never came far enough out to actually chew anything.


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Jeraliey
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I grew six wisdom teeth. I got off lucky; my dad had twelve!

As a note, wisdom-tooth pulling can be done under only local. It's really not that bad. The worst part was the injection in the roof of my mouth, but after that, I couldn't feel a thing.


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Someone asked elsewhere why threads get off topic.

Probably because the Administrator doesn't have a problem with the tangent the thread goes off to. As in the present instance.

My wisdom teeth were impacted, but they used a local when they extracted them--had to break them to get them out. The oral surgeon wore glasses which reflected what he was doing so perfectly that I was able to watch the whole thing. It was pretty cool, and the pain after the local wore off wasn't all that bad. (The swelling was worse.)


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Jeraliey
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Do you have chipmunk pictures? My brothers took blackmail material.
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Survivor
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Mine were still deep in the jaw, but I was turning 19 so out they came anyway. Despite that, I have no "chipmunk" pictures.
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mikemunsil
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quote:
It was pretty cool

Kathleen, you are braver than I!! They wouldn't have even needed anesthetic for me, I would have fainted dead away. LOL


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PenelopeS
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I hope I'm posting this in the right place - I'm not very computer literate. It should be in the discussion about concussion. I have been trying to work out the source of a problem I have with short term memory for some time, and reading these experiences on this site is about the closest I've ever come to it. I was injured in a car crash about 20 years ago, concussed, experienced short term memory loss for about an hour or so - (knew my boyfriend's name, didn't know where I'd been going in the car). Got over it relatively quickly. But 6 years ago, after the birth of my second child, I started experiencing very strange lapses in memory, that looked like jump cuts (hence the reason I found this site, because finally I've found someone else who has used the same description!). That is, literally what I see - a straight jump cut in the action. Sometimes it's the pictures I lose, sometimes it's the words - it's rarely the two at once. These episodes last anything from a fraction of a second to up to a minute. They normally happen when I'm relaxing after a period of stress - usually when I'm watching television. I've learnt that they're triggered by a combination of stress, (negative, not positive stress), too little sleep and too much alcohol (and it doesn't take very much). I've yet to find anyone else who has any idea of what I'm talking about, and this is the closest I've come so far!
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HSO
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quote:
As a note, wisdom-tooth pulling can be done under only local.

I was under anesthesia (sp?) when three of my wisdom teeth were pulled out. I had one pulled out with a local -- it was awful, jaw bones cracked, pain shooting up through my skull that nearly caused me to black out -- and the only two things that stopped me from punching the dentist was 1. The dentist was a woman. 2. She outranked me (I was in the military) and hitting a commisioned officer is guaranteed to end your military career.

My other three wisdom teeth, two of which were impacted, were done while I was cozily unconscious. The oral surgeons offered me a choice, local or the injection to put me under. I chose the latter. Dreamt nice dreams of the really cute surgeon's assistant, was wakened halfway through, told the assistant that I loved her, and was summarily unconscious again.

Note: The assistant was nowhere to be seen when the procedure was over. At the time, I was heartbroken. I think I did love her. I went away with my chipmunk cheeks, my bottle of Percocet, and cursed my fate.


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MaryRobinette
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Penelope, I hope that you find a solution to your problem or at least an understanding of it.
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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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PenelopeS, we're certainly not anything close to a medical forum, but if the descriptions here have helped in any way, we're glad.

Please tell your doctor what you've found out from others with your symptoms so you can get the help you need.

And if it doesn't take much alcohol to cause memory loss, then I submit that you have a good excuse to never take another drink.


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PenelopeS
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Don't worry, I'm not after any expert diagnosis, - just to find anyone else who know's what I'm talking about! - I've seen various neurologists and doctors - all of whom are stumped. I was just interested by your forum because the experiences recorded by people who've been concussed are the closest yet.
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mikemunsil
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It DOES help to talk to someone. I've never been able to get people to believe me when I told them what happened to me, so the acceptance here was great, although at least one person called it incredible (as in not credible?). Anyway, I understand where you're coming from, but please don't let this substitute for medical attention, and please keep on badgering away at the doctors until they take you seriously. I learned a large lesson last year. If I had listened to my doctors I would be dead right now. Fotunately I was either too stubborn or too arrogant to accept their diagnosis. (Too arrogant, my wife says! )

So, keep it up, on both fronts!

mm


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PenelopeS
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Yes, I'm more interested in this academically than medically. The neurologists didn't take it seriously, which irritated me intensely, but my GP did - booked me in for an MRI scan which by the time it came through I cancelled because they'd stopped happening. They have since reappeared but the trigger is usually so obvious I don't bother very much about it now. Your experience sounds much worse! I think there's probably an interesting book to be written about all these kind of experiences. All very Oliver Sacks. And the neurologists might actually learn something.
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Robyn_Hood
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A few years ago one of my cousins was experiencing something that sounds simillar to what you are describing. She kept having blackouts that seemed to be tied to stress.

She would be doing something and then find herself doing something completely different. The periods of missing time usually only lasted an average of five minutes. I know she had an MRI done, and I don't believe she has these "episodes" anymore. I don't know if the doctors ever figured it out.

------

Another story...

I used to work with a lady who had siezures. They had developed as a result of a skiing accident. When she was teenager she had gone skiing with some friends and family. She got going pretty fast and couldn't figure out how to stop. She ended up running into a building. She was in a coma for a quite a while, but she made a nearly total recovery -- except for the seizures (which were often triggered by stress or hormones).


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PenelopeS
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I was interested to read about your cousin's experience. I'd like to get in touch with her by email, or whatever she prefers. D'you think that would be possible? Thank you.
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