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Author Topic: Genres
mythopoetic
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Hey, I'm trying to work out what the differences are between Magical Realism stories and Fantasy stories. I really don't know what the difference is.

Also, does anyone know of any market for alternative history short stories? I was just curious.


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Silver3
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Magical realism means stories of everyday life where the supernatural makes insidious encroachment (no magical guns blazing... ). The works of many Latin America writers fall in this category: Garcia Marquez (A Hundred Years of Solitude, Love in the time of Cholera), Borges...Often language is used to create this intrusion of the fantastical.
Fantasy is, well, most things you find in your bookshop under the label of the same name. I'm not going to go into details here, because giving a definition of fantasy is painful and has been tried by better writers than I.
There is a debate over whether fantasy includes magical realism, or whether the latter should be filed under proper literature.

As for alternative histories...I'm not sure. Try Paradox, perhaps, (check their guidelines first, I don't remember exactly what they are) but they're currently overstocked.


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Christine
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I can answer this! I jsut learned it myself.

There is actually yet another sub-genre of fantasy that can help illustrate the point: urban fantasy.

Magical realism involves magic in the real world. Basically, in a magical realism story the world as a whole typically remains unaware of magic at the end. The magic either interupts normal people's daily lives (making it difficult for this genre to bring a fantasy element in particularly close to the beginning as some other have done) or it is part of a hidden sub-culture such as witches.

Urban fantasy, by contrast, takes the real world and essentially creates a parallel of it in which magic is commonplace or at least known.

Both of these are usually set in modern times, but magical realism can be set in a real past. (Or one the author thinks is real even though they're confused about what life was really like back then. )

When Urban fantasy is taken back in time, it is usually called alternative history.

Fantasy is a big umbrella and, in fact, I think just about every story can be sub-categorized. Aside from what I've talked about, there's epid, sword and sorcery, fairy tale, and science fantasy.


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wbriggs
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Thanks, Christine -- now I know what urban fantasy is.

Anyone care to define slipstream?


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franc li
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uh... slipstream is when you draft the race car or biker in front of you? I've never heard of it in a literary context. But then, that probably shouldn't alarm you.
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autumnmuse
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And while we are at it, what constitutes hard sci-fi? Are people like Philip K. Dick and Asimov considered 'hard' sci-fi writers? Would OSC be 'soft'? And where is the line between hard and soft?
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Christine
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Hard scifi simply means that the author goes deep into the technical side of the story, explaining scientific or technological principles. This type of science fiction requirse a deep understanding of our current understanding of the way the universe works along with the creativity to look into the future of how those principles might be applied.

Soft scifi doesn't. That's the line. Granted, it is a little fuzzy. How much explanation does someone have to give to make it hard? How much detail? It's a gut feeling, really.

Now, speaking VERY generally, soft scifi tends to focus on human reaction to whatever we're speculating about (the future, a new tecdhnology, alien exploration, etc.) but hard scifi can do that too. The only real difference is, as I said, the level of technical detail.

Hard scifi is not limited to future technologies, either. Some stories about aliens have more detail about the alien biology than others. This will be hard.

There is a scale, but I can tell you for certain that Card writes soft scifi. Asimov is a shade of gray, I'm afraid. He tends to write in terms of the human factor, but he also tries to use the scientific principles he understood at the time. I'd call him pretty hard. He's not like Clarke, though, who is the quintesential hard scifi writer.

I haven't read enough Philip K. Dick to make that call.

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited June 08, 2005).]


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franc li
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I'm afraid the hardest sci fi I've read is Michael Crichton.

P.S. I hope I didn't derail any chance of getting the slipstream question answered.

[This message has been edited by franc li (edited June 08, 2005).]


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Jeraliey
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I'm pretty sure that slipstream defines works of speculative fiction that cannot be easily classified as fantasy or science fiction. It's kind of a catch-all category, and is sometimes refered to as "interstitial". Examples of slipstream (by my admittedly unexpert definition) would include stuff by Neil Gaiman, Kurt Vonnegut, and the Dark Tower series by Stephen King.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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ChrisOwens
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I think the Dark Tower series is more fantasy or science fantasy, not slipstream.

I could be wrong, but slipstream is more existential, full of symbolism and layers. Speculative elements that appear might not be "real" within the story.


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Michael Crichton doesn't really write hard science fiction. (I'm pretty sure he doesn't even consider himself a science fiction writer.) What he writes is mainstream fiction that uses a little scientific speculation.

There are several mainstream writers who have dabbled at one time or another in writing what they believe to be "science fiction" and most of it doesn't do a lot for people who are used to reading science fiction. (Examples include THE CHILDREN OF MEN by P.D. James--which spends the first several chapters on set-up, something science fiction readers usually don't need that much of--and ANCIENT EVENINGS--I think that's right--by Norman Mailer.)

Another way to distinguish between hard and soft science fiction is to say that hard science fiction is about the hard sciences (physics, chemistry, math, engineering, etc) and soft science fiction is about the soft sciences (psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc).

I believe "slipstream" is used to refer to speculative fiction that can pass for literary fiction.


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onepktjoe
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Here's something I googled up on Slipstream (the full article is at http://www.jimkelly.net/pages/slipstream.htm ):

quote:
First Published in Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine, December, 2003.

It was in July, 1989 that Bruce Sterling coined the term in his Cat Scan column in the late great zine, SF Eye. Here's the big moment: "It is a contemporary kind of writing which has set its face against consensus reality. It is a fantastic, surreal sometimes, speculative on occasion, but not rigorously so. It does not aim to provoke a "sense of wonder" or to systematically extrapolate in the manner of classic science fiction. Instead, this is a kind of writing that simply makes you feel very strange; the way that living in the late twentieth century makes you feel, if you are a person of a certain sensibility. We could call this kind of fiction Novels of Postmodern Sensibility, but that looks pretty bad on a category rack, and requires an acronym besides; so for the sake of convenience and argument, we will call these books "slipstream." While I think Bruce's provisional definition holds up pretty well, most of his inductees into the slipstream club were folks whom we in the genre might actually think of as mainstream, for instance Kathy Acker, Isabel Allende, Martin Amis, Margaret Atwood, and Paul Auster. And those were just Bruce's "A's!"



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franc li
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Oh, okay, I was totally going to guess that.
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Elan
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I think if you are looking for a classic example of "hard" science fiction, there is no better person to cite than Arthur C. Clarke. He was a scientist who became a writer, and prided himself on writing science fiction based in science fact.
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Survivor
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There's hard and then there's hard.

I count Clancy as a hard SF writer, though he doesn't always write SF, his breakout novel was clearly near future SF, and several of his books have gone even further into the genre.

But really, genre is just a way of saying "how the audience will catagorize it". The "rules" of any given genre are just things that the audience has decided you aren't "allowed" to do. This is different from things that will defy expectations, that's generally good (unless the only thing the audience expected was that your work would be good ).


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RaymondJohn34
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I was up until 4am this morning and saw a referance to 'slipstream' in the book I was reading.
From Crawford Killian's
Writing Science Fiction and Fantasy, he defines slipstream as:

...a kind of catch-all term
proposed by Bruce Sterling in
1989. It's "slipstream" be-
cause it's not mainstream, but
slips through the cracks in
"normal" SF and Fantasy
categories.
...gives a familiar, ordinary...
world in which nevertheless
very strange things happen.

Had to post to this, just because I stayed up so late last night and fell onto it quite by accident.
--Raymond John


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RaymondJohn34
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Well thats what I get for staying up so late last night....
I read onepkJoe's post in its entirety, I really did.
Only after I posted and went back did I realize I basically reitterated what he said.
Everyone forgive me?

--Raymond John

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