He speaks of the shocking disparity between the Wannabes and the Can-do’s and the fact that only 2% of Americans read fiction to any serious degree. He says “the first thing a would-be professional writer has to learn is how huge – how depressingly near-infinitely colossally horrifyingly hugely huge – the gap is between good amateur writing and real professional writing. Again, not to belabor a metaphor, but it’s roughly the distance between very good Little League baseball and playing for the Yankees. It looks like the same game being played, but in a real way it’s not.”

He goes on to say basically, that young people have no hope because nobody is going to read a novel by an 18 year old. He not entirely right there of course because a recent exception comes to mind with the young man, Christopher Paolini who wrote and self published the “Eragon” books. He sold 8 million copies… on his own… no big publisher. Still I don’t entirely disagree with Dan on the point. Writing is at least greatly enhanced by plenty of life experience.

I think he is trying to bring home how much effort is required if you are really going to pursue this path. Although he doesn’t say it, his comments lean toward the idea that writing is something that can and has to be learned since there has never been a child prodigy writer unlike musicians or painters. It has crossed my mind on more than a few occasions that some here are on their way because they are just hopelessly gifted and maybe I just don’t have it. But considering Dan opinion, maybe there is hope for me if they are just further along the learning curve than me. (Although I am still certain there are a few dozen really gifted people floating around here).

So is Dan a pessimist or a realist?

Tracy

http://www.dansimmons.com/writing_welll/archive/2006_01.htm

I think there are two levels of writing. Writing itself -- stringing the words together in a forceful/poetic/interesting way AND storytelling. Not so many people, even among the published writers, do both well.

A good story can sometimes survive poor writing. Superb writing has a better chance of making a mediocre story interesting.

The odds of becoming a professional writer use to overwhelm me and make me want to stop. I had to realize there is more to writing than making it. I love writing, just like I love art. I love the expression of a single word and the craftiness of a sentence.

I’m not concerned about making it as a writer, if I don’t then I will probably teach it, but I will write till the end of my days, or till I go blind. Writing as my dream so far has lead me on a journey I could of never imagined.

quote:

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He goes on to say basically, that young people have no hope because nobody is going to read a novel by an 18 year old.

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I'm going to say that Dan Simmons is just jealous that a younger, possibly more talented writer is going to steel his spot. Saying that has no justification in any case and proves he's just a sore loser.

I'm 20 and take offence to that. I may be young but I have lived through a lot of traumatic experiences, some would just say it was all a learning curve, but does everyone almost commit suicide?

It doesn't matter if a writer is 15 or 50, as long as a publisher and editor feel the work is very well done then they'll be read. A writers age has nothing to do over the level of skill a person has, it's just a matter of experience is all tha is different.

From what little blurbs I've read from him in the past, I'd say he's a perfectionist. He demands perfection not only from himself, but everyone else. This seemed the whole subtext of Illium. Personally, perfectionists grate me, but that's due to the magnitude of my imperfections. I'm only human born with both common and personalized limitations.

When it comes to fiction, for me, words are a vehicle to get to the story, not an end to itself, and while I like the sound of words and a clever phrase, it's all about the story.

Do you like what Dan says?

If not, move on and don't worry about it. There are too many professional writers who have gone about the task of learning the craft in different ways to worry which one is right. There's only one rule of writing, as far as I'm concerned: YOU MUST FIND YOUR OWN WAY.

I'm sorry, but the difference between a good amateur and a professional is nothing at all like the difference between a good little league team and the Yankees. For one thing, there are plenty of professional writers who can't write very well at all. Some of them have good stories to make up for their writing, some of them have connections, and some of them are just plain lucky.

On the other hand, there are plenty of writers who haven't made it yet who are wonderful writers. Some of them are shy about sending out their work, some of them are unlucky, most of them have no connections, and many of them probably don't know how to maneuver through the world of publishing and promoting books.

But of course, most people fall somewhere in-between.

Don't get me wrong. I've seen plenty of amateurs who only want to be coddled rather than put any real effort into their craft. I can't count the number of times people tell me, when I say I've got a book coming out, "Oh, I've always wanted to write poetry or a children's book or something..." Come to find out, most of them are just dreaming and not doing. I don't take them seriously.

I don't know how many Americans are *really* trying to write...taking classes, practicing often, studying the craft, and sharing their stories for critique...but I guarantee it's FAR less than 300 million.

Not to criticism the man (I know this isn't the point of this thread and will come to that in a minute) but it seems that even a writer as successful as he makes just the same mistakes (not sure that's the word I'm really after because I'm not sure if they are actually mistakes) as any of us can and probably do make. I've just finished reading Self-editing for Fition Writers - which is why I'm suddnely picking up on certain thing in my own and others writing. I don't know if this is true to all his work, but in the one novel (Hyperion) I read he had his characters smiling words, forgot somewhere during the story whose POV the story was from and seemed to change it from thrid to omni because he told us things the oringial POV character couldn't possibily know. It bothered me a tad but not to the point that I would put the book down.

So what I'm really saying is that even though a talented writer makes these 'mistakes' they are still published - I guess I'm saying that if you can tell a story, as long as the writing style isn't terrible, you CAN be published. I beleive if you have the ability to tell a good story, you're half way there.

I do in some respect agree that you need life experiences, not to write because many people can write, but to write with meaning and emotion, to write about things that matter, but even a young person can do (and have) done this if they have many life experiences.

Just what is a "professional writer" Someone can (and has) crank out bilge and make a pile of money. Is he a "professional" writer? Don't get caught up in thinking that everything published is well written or even deserved to be published. There are great writers and a then a much larger group of competent writers. The same is true of any other field.

I look at some published stuff, and despair...but, then, I look at some other published stuff---and this includes a few award winners---and I wonder how this garbage could ever have been accepted.

Then I also look at the stuff I ran across during my Internet Fan Fiction phase. Some of it moved me more than any contemporary fiction in professional publication. A lot of it was "amateurish"---but tremendously exciting nonetheless.

There are lots of books and opinions out there on writing, with tons of contradictory advice. Balthasar is right - you must find your own way. It's good to read as much as you can, but take from it what helps and discard the rest.

The chances of making a living at this are pretty small, and even though some of us fantasize about making it professionally (at least I do - sometimes), that's not what keeps us writing. We are all different in our approaches, our motivations, our thinking, but we are all here because we love/like/hate/are addicted to it. arriki has it right, too: you don't have to be perfect in all aspects of writing to succeed. Just keep doing it.

As near as I can tell, traditional publishing seems more age-friendly, an open market to people from nine to ninety. But I can't be sure...a lot of the editors I see mentioned lately are, I believe, younger than I am. A lot of writers got their first stuff published a lot younger than I am. (I was tryin' but they weren't buyin'.)

Of course it works both ways. I like a lot of what I liked when I was a kid...I'm less enchanted by the new stuff that (younger) others are putting out. It may be a character flaw, but as far as writing goes, I'm stuck with it. I'll have to write what I would like to read and hope for the best.

Book and article writing is still a cottage industry.
Anybody can get into it.

Theoretically, everybody who has the training to put words on paper, can write.

The only thing close to being factory work in writing, are newspapers where reporters and columnists have to produce regularly.

I'm in the middle of a Phd program in astrophysics. I'm a scientist first and foremost, an astronomer. All I really want out of my writing is for my stories to be heard (ok read). Even if my fantasy novel(s) did turn out to be the next Harry Potter or whatever (ie make lots of money so I could focus on only them) it wouldn't make me quit my "day job."

Other than that, I take the craft of it seriously...though I have rarely done exercises and such. I just write.

Now, my goals are different -- still lofty, but different. I want to be a great writer. I can do that by writing a lot, reading a lot, studying the craft. So I do those things, too. I've been writing for about 2 months again, so I have a couple of stories almost ready to be sent out. I can control that, too, sending stuff out.

And because I'm about to start sending stuff out, I'm guaranteed to get responses from editors.

Whether or not they'll accept my stories -- whether or not I'll get paid for them -- that's out of my control. So I don't worry about that anymore.