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Author Topic: Good short article for realistic writing about horses
Magic Beans
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http://www.speculations.com/mortal_mount.htm
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NewsBys
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Yes, that is something to think about. Thanks for sharing.
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mikemunsil
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Excellent, and accurate. I'll either keep my characters afoot, or use this reference.
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EricJamesStone
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Thanks for posting that link. Very useful info.
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Robyn_Hood
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I've often wondered about that sort of thing. Thanks for the link.
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Warbric
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Excellent! I wasted a couple hours on Sunday trying to absorb a couple of encyclopaedic books on horses and horse care, and this link cuts straight to the stuff I was needing. Thanks a bunch for posting it.
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Magic Beans
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You're all welcome! <warm inner glow>
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Survivor
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Of course, this article didn't answer the most pressing mystery of all--the appeal of Kevin Sorbo.

One last thing to note, this writer knows what she knows about horses from...well, the horses mouth, so to speak. If you're going to write about horses, follow her example, not just her advice. Ride a horse.

(One great advantage of doing this is that you can observe firsthand some of the things that horses do around inexperienced riders )


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Robyn_Hood
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One thing I would like to know is how far you can ride a horse in one day. I've gone on horse back trips, and I know you can go a fair distance. I just don't know what "fair distance" equals in miles or kilometers.

For instance, how long would it take to ride a horse across England?

I guess I should Google it and see what comes up.


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mikemunsil
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Robyn_Hood

Well, having done some horsepacking myself, it's all about logistics. So it's not as simple as dividing the distance across England by 2.5 mph. You'd have to figure in severe weather, rest & recuperation stops, sidetrips to farriers, perhaps a sidetrip for an ale or two (daily), a full day for each major river crossing, a spare mount for every woman, etc.

They have big yearly trailrides doen here in Texas, it might be worth looking at how lng it takes tehm to do it. On pavement. With escorts. And TVs.

[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited October 05, 2004).]


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EricJamesStone
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> a spare mount for every woman

Why? Is a woman's mount more likely to go flat?


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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A healthy horse on its own can go longer and farther than a load-bearing horse. And the heavier the load, the shorter the distance and time a horse can bear it. (A full-size horse ridden by a child can do better than that same horse ridden by an adult or pulling a wagon.)

A team of horses pulling a covered wagon on a typical covered-wagon-type road (dirt, ruts, etc.) could travel at the very most about 30 miles in a day. (With rest stops and feeding stops, of course.)

A load-bearing horse can't go at a full gallop for very long at all. A good quarter horse is supposed to be able to gallop for a quarter of a mile (hence the name). I think a good thoroughbred (race horse/Arabian blood) is supposed to be able to gallop for around a mile, but not much more.

A fit man on foot can travel farther in a day that a fit horse bearing a rider.

There's a race called "ride and tie" which involves two people and a horse. One person starts out running and the other rides to a certain stopping point. The rider gets off the horse, ties it up, and starts running. The horse is supposed to have rested enough by the time the runner gets to it that it can be ridden again, past the runner to a new point where its rider ties it up, and starts running again, while the horse rests until the other runner gets to it. And so on.

I've heard that this kind of race can kill a horse, but if you have a couple of characters who have to get somewhere, and they only have one horse, that's probably the quickest way they can travel. They need to make sure the horse has food and a little bit of water (not too much), and is covered with a blanket to prevent chills while it waits.

Better yet, the rider can feed, water, brush down the horse, and walk it to cool it down while they both wait for the runner. When the runner arrives, then the first rider can start running, and the horse and new rider can start riding. It may not be as fast as in the race, but it will help the horse survive the trip.


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djvdakota
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Good article, but who (except horse loving thirteen-year-old girls) is going to read a book that goes into THAT much detail about the care and feeding of the hero's horse? Yeah, yeah. I know. That's not the point. But that's just what I was thinking as I read it.

Anyway:

First, horses in pre-industrial times were fitter than horses now, simply because they were USED all the time. These days horses are purely recreation and, just like their humans, need to be purposefully exercised in order to 'train' for athletic purposes.

Second, horses in those days did not live as long, because they were USED. Used up. Used, as a piece of property, until they couldn't go anymore, then sold to the knackers or chopped up to feed the deerhounds.

Third, dead on about horses being skittish and the rider often being the cause of it. I learned driving carriages in SLC that it didn't matter how terrified I was (like when a horse decides it might be fun to drag race on a busy city street) I had better not let that signal get to my horse through those lines or I'd likely never get him to stop. So a forced body-calm can mask mind-fear to a horse. They read your mood through their mouth and through the tension in your legs and the quaver in your voice.

Lastly, when your hero or villain is running his horse off its feet to save himself, I highly doubt he's going to be thinking, "Oh, my! I need to stop and warm some water in my helm for my poor thirsty horse." In fact, though heartless, it might add a nice detail to see him literally run the horse to death, in which case the animal might have blood in its saliva or coming from its nostrils. It might have bloody lather (white-whipped sweat caused by friction, in armpits and under tack) from being whipped or spurred. It might cough and wheeze and fight for breath. It might, if thirsty enough, drown itself once it finds water. And also keep in mind that if our hero's horse can only run a few miles at a stretch, so can his pursuers. So, unless the pursuer has a fresh supply of horses along the route (which, of course, is carefully planned out ) or access to horseless vehicles, he won't make much headway without exhausting his own horses. Catching a bad guy who has a significant lead on a horse will take persistence, stealth, time.

OK, NOW it's the last: Pony express riders rode full-bore gallop. Stations were 3 to 5 miles apart. At each station they would trade in the tired horse for a fresh one and keep on going. Until the telegraph came through it was the fastest way to get mail from one end of the wilderness to the other. You'd have to look up exact times and distances.

The Grand National (National Velvet fame) is, I believe, a three mile race, run at full speed, with jumps along the route. It's brutal, but very exciting.

And one more: Horses with black hooves will hold up better without shoes than horses with white hooves. Black hooves are tougher and less likely to chip, crack, wear. Wherever white skin touches the quick of the hoof, the hoof will be white below that point. In pre-shoe times horses with four black hooves would have been more valuable than those with pretty white socks.

Oh, and I LOVED the part about our hero leaping gracefully from his steed after a long day riding. Perfect!

Not that your reader wants to know that much.


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MaryRobinette
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I'll add to this, that not all countries have the same horse training conditions. The Icelandic horses behave very differently from the British horses--partly from training, but possibly also because there are no predators in Iceland. They've got a lot more attitude.
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Gwalchmai
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In 1603, Sir Robert Carey apparently set off from Whitehall for Edinburgh late Thursday night in order to be the first to inform James VI of Scotland of the death of Elizabeth I. That night he is said to have made it to Doncaster some 165 miles away before continuing on to Widdrington the next day (approx. 140 miles) and finally making it to Edinburgh (approx. 95 miles) Saturday evening after falling off his horse and only being able to ride most of the last day's distance at a 'light' pace.

This makes for an entire journey of around 400 miles in less than three days for which he is alleged to have used a relay of 26 horses. We aren't told how many were ridden to death but it is considered quite an epic feat for which he was well rewarded.

[This message has been edited by Gwalchmai (edited October 06, 2004).]


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Robyn_Hood
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quote:
In fact, though heartless, it might add a nice detail to see him literally run the horse to death, in which case the animal might have blood in its saliva or coming from its nostrils.

In The Three Musketeers and its sequels, Alexandre Dumas has his characters ride their horses into the ground on a few occasions. However, something that was pointed out in the introduction of one of the books I read, was that D'Artangnon and his budies were able to cover greater distances without changing horses as they got older and they could travel about as fast as they did with multiple mounts.

By the time Dumas gets to The Man in the Iron Mask, D'Artangnon is able to cover nearly twice the distance before his horse drops dead beneath him.

[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited October 06, 2004).]


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mikemunsil
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Wow, that must have been a great breeding program!
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djvdakota
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So did Dumas's exaggerated use of horses eventually lead to the endless supply of bullets in a revolver that we see so often in movies today? Or did someone before him tell stories in which the hero has an endless supply of arrows?

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Robyn_Hood
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Bullets, not so much. But he does use a version of the "good guy bullets/bad guy bullets" motif, except instead of bullets it's swords.

They're all excellent swordsmen, but it doesn't matter whether they are healthy or not, his musketeers seem to be able to defeat any enemy.


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Survivor
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Well duh, otherwise they would be the mooks and the story would be about someone else.

I would disagree with DJV's first point (even though it has a certain basis in truth) but her second (and "Lastly" point) is dead on. Mortality rates for horses back then weren't just because they didn't have modern veterinary science. In a pinch, you pushed your horse as hard as it would go, just like you would use your sword in a life or death fight.

As for D'Artangnon learning to be a better horseman and not kill his horse quite as fast, that sounds pretty believable to me.


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EricJamesStone
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> Well duh, otherwise they would be the
> mooks and the story would be about someone
> else.

Sort of a character version of the anthropic principle.


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yanos
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I can't really see the average barbarian caling his horse "Peaches", currying it down every night, walking because the poor little beastie had a stone in his hoof, and checking to make sure the water was at room temperature. After all, if it dies, you can always steal another one.

While I don't deliberately have super horses in my stories, neither do I tell the reader about horse care, because.... drum roll.... it has nothing to do with the plot.


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Robyn_Hood
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Actually, I vaguely remember reading a story involving horses, where the author worked in something about how the character used a branch off a pine tree in place of a curry comb to brush the horse down at night. I can't remember what book it was (possibly a Louis L'Amour, Down the Long Hills), but the character had been forced to flee with the horse and didn't have any tack with him. After riding the horse all day (bare-back) he used what he could find to care for the horse.

The particulars of the story are quite hazy, but I think the horse was almost a secondary character in the story so it made sense to integrate some of the particulars.


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djvdakota
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Guess that depends on your definition of 'average' barbarian. In reality, horses in most 'barbaric' cultures likely would have put a great deal of value on their horses and would care for them well unless it came down to the choice between self and horse.

In many horse cultures that would be one difficult choice. Cultures in which a man would choose his horse over his wife, but those were more rare. I tend to think it's only in modern times, when machine (including such early advancements as firearms) began to overtake the horse's usefulness, that a good horse became of gradually lesser value.

So, yes, they actually would have taken good care of their horse, seen to its needs. Your point, however, is that a writer must be cautious concerning how much of this information is pertinent to the story. In fact, writer's must be conscious of everything and whether it is pertinent to the story. BUT, if part of your story is building characters and cultures in which the horse is important, then adding a few details about such things adds greatly to that.

Example: World building: Jack Whyte's Camulod Chronicles. Whyte goes into a great deal of detail about the early development of a breed of heavy cavalry chargers. Character building: A story of a young man who reveres horses more than people might show him angering someone in order to see to the needs of the animals, and a nice little detail there might be that he dips his elbow into the water trough to see that the water is not too cold.


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yanos
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You know modern horses are generally treated different to horses in even the middle ages. If you look at articles on fell ponies, and it is most likely that most horses then were ponies, they are used to a very sparse diet. Horses that need grain and special care are very expensive to maintain, and therefore in a land where human labour is plentiful not of much use except for the minority.

Oxen was mostly used by farmers in Britain then, and horses did not get used for ploughing until the Vikings came. But Britons did fight from horseback or chariots when the Romans came and with some success. It does seem clear that, from the articles I have read, the fighters only used the horses for short periods with breaks in between.

So a soldier fighting from horseback has less requirements than say a nomad, who would probably be bow-legged from having "lived in the saddle."


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