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I am writing this story about a conquered people who fight for their freedom against the cruel and heartless invaders. In this story, the queen ends up dying in an arena as a martyr. So my question is, this feels like a story to me that needs magic, and I can'f figure out quite how to fit it in. I want to use it because I want to have a strong and very powerful character brought down low, and facing it with grace and nobility, and part of how I want to show that is how she uses magic. If anyone has read the Sword of Truth series, kind of like Richard, or rather Kahlan. So back to the question, how do I show that without making it seem patched in? Any suggestions and hints would be helpful, and ideas for spells themselves. Thanks!!!!! ;-)
[This message has been edited by maria102182 (edited August 31, 2005).]
posted
First ask yourself: Does anyone else do magic?
If so, then where are they? What magic do they do? What role do they play in society?
If not, why would the first magic user spontaniously appear? Is there some ancestor or radioactive spider that caused this? How would you react, realisticly, if you spontaniously found your hands burning and if you touched something it combusted? (odd tangent to clarify the question, insert the magic you plan on using to replace the tangent)
And never forget, if there is magic, there is a price. What is that price? The greater the magic, the greater the price.
posted
That's a good point. She does magic because it runs in her family. I had decided that magic can follow certain gifts, like if a person is gifted at doing things with thread, then that is where the gift will follow. Some rare individuals can do any type of magic, they only have to be taught. And they can do quite a bit in instinct. My character is one of these. The weakness of power is that it can be drained away, and you only have a certain amount of power at any one time, and when you use it, it's gone untill you have time to recover. You can also feed someone else your power, and you can use spells to raise power from the world around you, but how well this works is directly proportional to how many people are involved and how much power you have to begin with. So I guess, at the end of that long speil is that your role with magic is defined by what you can do with it, and where your inclination takes you. And so on. I've actually made it pretty complicated for myself, I think that's why I'm having trouble working it in.
Posts: 102 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I think that there should be a price in magic.
But what kind of price. The loss of health, or something like that. I think that headaches and nosebleeds like David Keith off of "Firestarter" could be a good example of a price.
posted
And if magic is really so key to your story, you'll find a way to work it in seamlessly.
Questions to consider: is your queen familiar with her magic (meaning, does she know what she can do with it, how fast she is drained, etc?) or is it all rather new to her, so she's less likely to rely on it unless other, more familiar methods have failed her? How often in the course of your story does she encounter a situation in which it would make sense for her to use magic? That can make big changes in plot and flow.
The most important thing to realize is that, if magic is a part of the everyday world, people aren't going to react to it as we would, with disbelief/incredulity or whatever. They see it all the time, so to them it's no more impressive than a car going down the street. Or maybe it's less common than that, but we aren't astounded every time they try to send something into space anymore, either.
I'm sure there are more points to consider, but I hope that gave you something to chew on for a little while.
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If the magic is based in hereditary gifts, did her parents marry/mate more for magical abilities than love? How does she feel about this? Does she want to do the same or different?
Thinking of Seventh Son, I imagine Alvin Miller must have weeded out any women who did not come from large families. I wonder if there was anyone he wanted to marry but because they were an only child he couldn't. I wonder if he ever thought of having sons with several different women. Hmmm. I wonder if Calvin tries this. I wonder if such a person shows up and creates trouble for Alvin Jr. And he could be French, too.
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I wouldn't patch magic in simply to make the character powerful. You can accomplish that in several other ways; powerful personality, born to power, political power.
Any major element to your milieu should have a purpose, and magic is one of those things. Consider how magic would be perceived in your society, how people would react to those with magical abilities (would they fear them? shun them? exploit them? revere them?) Who else has this magic? How did the magic evolve?
If you use magic, make sure it is well integrated as a whole in your entire milieu.
If YOU are afraid your magic will look "patched on" then you should pay attention to your gut instinct. My experience is that when I have a gut instinct something is not working, that something ends up being flagged by my writing group during critiques. Follow your instincts on this one.
posted
I'm not sure I understand the original question. What is it that you wish to show through the queen's use of magic?
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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The original question is how does a queen use magic without it seeming to cliche. At least that's what I meant. I tried to take the magic out, and that didn't work either, it works better with the magic, I would just like it to work better than it is that's all. What I am trying to show is that she has all this power and personality, and she is poweful, but she still has her weaknesses. Think Dumbledore. And magic is common, but she has more that almost anybody. She can raise a hand and take down an army, but it will leave her weak and almost helpless. And part of my point is when she is in the arena, she has been stripped of her magic, which you can do to someone else if you have a bit of them, like hair or blood, or something personal that they have had for years, example favorite jewlery or peices of clothing. So she faces death weak from her loss of power, and helpless to prevent her fate. She still fights in the arena, and dies with grace. Her enemy wanted her to die in the most humiliating way he could, so he put her in the arena like a common criminal, and she turned humiliation into sacrifice and triumph. Part of my point with the magic is that even when she had nothing left, she turned her death from meaninglessness into something powerful, and meaningful to her people, that she inspired on to freedom, and left them with a legend and an ideal to follow. So my end point is that magic is essential, I'm just trying to develop it to a point that it fits with the rest of the story. Like the religion question a little bit ago.
As you can tell, I'm very passionate about this story, and I think I have good strong characters, but it's my first serious effort as a writer, and I'm terrified of messing it up. So the help y'all are giving me is very much appreciated.
[This message has been edited by maria102182 (edited September 01, 2005).]
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I think this story would be fine without magic. You said it yourself that you have strong characters, and focus should stay on them, unless this is longer than a short story. If the entire manuscript is just the queen in the arena, then don't include the magic. However, since your magic system sounds interesting, if the manuscript is longer, then by all means use it.
Now onto how to make the queen's magic not seem cliche. A powerful person in society with powerful magic is cliche in itself. However, by your reference to Dumbledore, look to Harry Potter. There seems to be no limit on a wizard's power, except for his knowledge of and emphasis upon a spell. This shows that strong characters can easily trump a very poor magic system as long as the magic adds something to the story. Harry Potter could be a human-only book with his parents being murdered by a mob boss named Voldemort and him learning to be a gangsta in the streets, but what makes Harry Potter a great series is that magic adds to the plot.
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She is a queen, but she is a queen in hiding, so she has power over the people with her and the people who acknowlege her leadership, but they come to depend on her magic because she is smart and knows how to use it, and it has saved them more than once. But when the power is stripped away, she is still brave and courageous in the face of her own death. And the story is more than her in the arena, it is her seeing her parents killed and growing up in hiding and falling in love and leading the rebellion and her death inspiring her people on to freedom. By the way, thanks for everything yall have pointed out, it's made me think some things through, and my story is definatly better.
Posts: 102 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Ahhh... when I'm writing stories, magic is pretty much a given for me. I can't help but include it somehow; it's just part of who I am as a writer. The only time I've written something devoid of magic was for roleplays... heh. So naturally I'm predisposed toward letting the magic in if you can fit it seamlessly.
My best advice is probably to avoid cliches. It's easy to fall into magical cliches -- elemental magic in particular is prevalent and hard to put a new spin on. If you have an idea to put a creative twist on a common cliche, so much the better... but if it's possible, make your magic system unique and blend it as seamlessly as possible with the world of your story.
I'm currently experimenting with two story worlds; in one, magic occurs naturally in nature, but not in humans. People may use the magic in nature, as in potion making and similar pursuits, but they have no magic of their own. A group of people, though, has been embued with magic; naturally, when the fact that it's possible to gain magical power of your own unnaturally gets out, it is something that the helpless and power hungry want to do for themselves... there's more to the story -- it doesn't center solely on the magic -- but that does add a helpful backbone to parts of the plot.
My other story world is positively saturated with magic -- two separate types. One, the more noticeably prevalent one, is highly volatile and unpredictable. It's a physical magic, influenced by words and gestures, but not requiring a lot of willpower; as a result, it's not a very reliable magic, as when you're casting things don't always turn out as you're expecting them to. The other form is a mental magic brought on more by necessity, will, and concentration. In large amounts, it's very mentally draining. Mages well trained in its use are both rare and very steadfast, stuck in their ways -- which is often more inconvenient than good, since the ways they're stuck in aren't always the right ways. In most cases, though, magic is so prevalent that it's nothing to remark upon -- it's like any other aspect of life, and prey to ordinary differences and prejudices. Mages of the more mental division of power scorn physical mages as putting their trust in something fleeting and unpredictable; physical mages scorn mental mages for practicing something so needlessly wearing when physical magic is much simpler and less draining. Some orders of mages teach purist magic, separating the practice into elements taught separately; some teach craft-specific magic, creating healer-mages and smith-mages; some teach physical and mental magic hand-in-hand... It's like learning different disciplines of science or... cooking. In this world, my magic is both essential and nearly irrelevant; it crafted the world, and the place wouldn't be the same without it, plus my main character uses it for a major spell early on that affects the story forever after... but other than that, it isn't really very important to the plot.
I just suffer from meticulous world-building.
Anyway, I got to ranting, which probably wasn't good. Sorry ^^; Hope I've helped in some strange way.
[This message has been edited by Kherezae (edited September 05, 2005).]
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It seems to me like you have a very good reason for using magic as far as the plot is concerned.
It sounds like you now need a good reason as far as your world-building is concerned. When I'm doing this I usually like to think what the source of the power is. Try and fit it to the themes within the story. How can the back-story of magic help reinforce those themes?
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I always just thought of magic as kind of there, something that can be learned by those who have the ability and accepted by those who don't like music. I love music but I can't play a note. As far as the source of magic, it is those who use it, and the things that it resides in. Like someone has the ability to use magic it comes from inside themselves, and when they are doing power raisings and some such it comes from the things around them. And since someone's magic is part of them, that is how you would drain someone's magic out of them, like my queen has a personal object stolen from her, and she has had it for so long that she is connected to it, and her enemies use that connection to drain her power away. Keep posting people, I am loving this!!!!
Posts: 102 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Why not have the magic bring her back to life and more powerful than before or something like that? She could've used the magic long enough that it became alive and found her body and viola.
Does that sound like something that could work for your piece?
Just something that popped into my head a few minutes ago.
quote:Um... in the Alvin Maker series, Alvin eventually marries Little Peggy, who is an only child.
I don't understand your point. Are you saying birth order is unimportant in that universe?
I was just trying to say that where there is magic, there are rules and the rules cause certain behavior. P.S. Or maybe apart from causing behavior, they create a structure in which to show behavior that exposes character. Alvin and Calvin are both seventh sons, but because their characters are different their interaction with the world is very different.
[This message has been edited by franc li (edited September 08, 2005).]
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When I thought of the story I knew that she died. It was the basis of my whole story. She is good and powerful, and is killed by someone who is equaly powerful, but evil. He finally outmanuvers her, and has her executed, in a way that is supposed to shame and humiliate her, but instead elevates her to almost saint status, and inspires her people. Her name is Sophia by the way. When I first met Sophia, she was walking into the arena with her head held high and a smile on her lips, KNOWING that she was about to die, and accepting it and turning it into something beautiful. And I had an epiphany. Magic is part of the religion of the world. Like writing was in the Middle Ages. People other than those religious know how to do magic, but they are the ones that keep it going and teach others, and the best teachers are preists and such. Anyway, that just feels a whole lot better to me.
Posts: 102 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Ah, I get it. So she's not just a magic user, she's a cleric type. The way she uses magic is an expression of her beliefs concerning the nature and purpose of her world, her people, and herself.
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I wouldn't have thought to put it like that, but yes, that is what I was trying to get out. Thanks for that insite.
Posts: 102 | Registered: Aug 2005
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What you said makes even more sense Survivor, because the conqureres have forbidden the use of magic and suppressed the religion that is linked with magic. Then Sophia comes out of the shadows, bright and beautiful and powerful with her magic, like a legend that you had almost forgotten, right there in front of your eyes. Then she gets betrayed by one who ought to have loved her (not her husband) and her magic is stripped away. Then she makes the heroic decsision to face her death like the queen she is and turn humiliation into beautiful and inspiring sacrifice. I know, I'm a little obsessed with her death, but it is the point that the rest of the story hangs on. When I first met Sophia she was walking into the arena with her head held high, instead of being dragged in. It was powerful to me, and I want to get it right. So thanks for the help people, and keep posting!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by maria102182 (edited September 14, 2005).]
posted
I think that it is an interesting thing to consider how much clerical magic (and it's modern equivalent, classroom laboratory science) has in common with "miracle" as it occurs in religion.
The thing about a miracle is that, as the name implies, it is a thing to be looked at more than to be used. Of course many miracles are known and celebrated for the good effects they had, but the primary qualification is that the event showed unambiguously the power (and, sometimes, identity) of God.
In the same way, classroom laboratory experiements aren't designed to directly accomplish anything remotely useful, nor are they really intended to teach a practical skill of any kind. They are designed to allow the students to see the predictive capabilities of current scientific theories, and are a means of promoting faith in the theory. Even when they take place outside of the classroom proper, like the experiment where you drop pumpkins to time how long it takes them to fall various heights and how much impact energy is developed over a given length of free-fall. Actually, this kind of experiment goes beyond teaching faith in the mathmatical laws of gravity, it is designed to inspire with the attitude that science is not only predictive, but fun.
Actually, though, while classroom science is the best established in our own world, there is quite a bit of this sort of "miracle" involved in various competing belief systems in the world today. One thinks of Ben Kenobi putting the blast shield on Luke and then telling him "See? You can do it." That sort of thing is something of a commonplace for noviates learning the mysteries of dance or martial arts. And of course our medical establishment combines the classroom exercise with actual life and death outcomes for the benefit of those learning their craft.
Transposed into a world of intolerance and suppression of a religious system incorperating belief and practice of a particular type of magic, I think that the use of a clerical could be very interesting.
The main thing is that you want to make a clear connection between the beliefs and ethics of the religion and a person's ability to use the magic associated with it.
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Actually, I had started to put some thought into it, this is actually one of my more recent ideas involved in this story. I think that the people's religion is a polythiestic one, with a head god in charge, and it emphasizes that people need to be good, forgivness for mistakes, and harmony with nature. That kind of thing. And magic is seen as the ability to keep things in balance, to smooth the way, a divine gift from the gods. Then they are conqured, and faith waivers. If they were doing the right things, shouldn't the gods have protected them and so on. Then Sophia comes and uses magic and stands up for what is right, and helps to rekindle the peoples long lost faith, and belif in her cause. Then she dies, but she has been so powerful and good that her cause lives after her, even though she never gets to see her people become the great nation she knows they can be.
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posted
On a related topic, how do you use names? I have named my main characters in this story Sophia and Christopher, and someone was complaining about the cultural connotations or something like that. Should I worry?
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posted
Sofia is more or less negotiable, but Christopher is a really specifically Christian reference. It probably will tend to make the reader go "huh, they have a Christian tradition in this fantasy milieu?", and you don't want that.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
It sounds to me like Sophia's death inspires her people to rebel against this conqueror, and presumably defeat him or her. To me, this means Sophia turns her death, her defeat, into a victory and something that inspires her people.
Since most of her power is stripped away, she's limited, if I understand correctly. It occurred to me that perhaps the limitation is that she can't affect much outside of herself, and even then, she can't maintain any changes she invokes. Knowing she is going to die and she can't stop it, perhaps she could use that last bit of magic to turn herself into some sort of beacon of hope, physically. What that is depends on your story and your creativity, but it could be the simple giant statue or pillar of fire sort of thing, or whatever. (Those are just examples; I don't think they're that creative.) It would have to be something that can withstand the enemy's efforts to destroy it, hide it or move it out of view. You would also have to deal with the question of why she didn't turn into something that could prevent her death. (To me that would be her choice. She could have fought back, but chose to do something for her people, instead). Since you want her to be almost saint-like, it seems, you might want the choice to represent her religion somehow, too. There are other, less physical, alternative; she could do something that shares her natural talent with magic with the rest of her people.
I think it might also be effective if what she does is something that can't normally be done or has never been done before. It could help emphasize her triumph. For example, they could learn later that she somehow managed to use her own soul or essence to fuel the effect she created, since her power was stripped.
posted
I agree with what you are saying, and I had some thoughts along the line of she used the last of her power to make sure that everyone in the stadium understood that she couldn't choose to die, but she could choose to accept death and turn it from humiliation to enduring sacrifice. And I had a thought that this sacrifice moved even the gods, and they made her one of them, and she becomes sort of the goddess of war. Well, not really war, but protection, and her husband's love was so great that when he died years later he became the god of love and romance. Any way, she becomes the patroness of the army, and it is her they pray to before battles and in times of trouble. And so on. And if you have to put something christian to the name Christopher you could say that he was redeemed and shaped into a better person, which is what Christ does for us, but I really didn't think of that when I picked the name. I just like the name Christopher.
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posted
It isn't an issue of the symbolism of the name, it's a milieu issue. Like having a "phaser beam" spell.
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