posted
Sister of Betrayal -- is that a good title? I can't use the old one, not since I changed the ending .
Anyway, how's my opening? Does it *demand* that you keep reading? Or does it tire and bore you?
Let me know, please . Be honest.
quote: Hundreds upon thousands crowded the racetrack. It was a recent addition to the trading city of Jijan, but it had gained immediate popularity. May couldn't see why. No matter where she placed her bet, she always lost.
"It's hopeless," she said to her young sister, Silvia. "They must rig it."
Silvia shrugged, not caring. "Can I go get a sugar cane?"
May gave Silvia a small portion of money. Sugar cane was a luxury, but Silvia needed cheering. Tragedy had struck recently—both of their parents had died from the coughing plague. May, already living elsewhere, had returned immediately when she heard the news.
Silvia, fortunately, hadn't taken it too badly. As least as far as May could tell.
Returning to the bet vendor, May placed a Rollish copper on a short horse. It hadn't won yet, but it had to eventually. And the last two times it made an impressive effort. Surely now, it would win.
It didn't.
[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited July 21, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited July 21, 2004).]
posted
Honestly, it doesn't grab my attention much. I know they're at a race track, but you've not done much to show or describe it -- sounds and smells, stuff like that. To be fair, 13 lines may be too short for that, but not necessarily.
Second thing that comes to mind... it just doesn't feel right reading it... it's like the order of all the sentences are inverted or misplaced... but I've only had one cup of coffee -- who knows, it could be the crap in my eyes or something.
Third thing is the dialogue sounds forced. Instead of "They must rig it," try saying it like someone would really say it and add some feelings of the character along the way. "It's hopeless, I won't win. I just know it's rigged," she said to Sylvia.
And for Sylvia's line: "Can I get some sugar cane?" is better than "Can I go get..."
quote:Tragedy had struck recently—both of their parents had died from the coughing plague. May, already living elsewhere, had returned immediately when she heard the news.
The quoted line above seems to hit us too early, imo. It's definitely out of place in that paragraph. Plus, if there's a plague afoot, who would return to an area where they would be likely to get it? I'd avoid it like the plague, myself.
So, then... May (might work better as Mae so it doesn't get confused in with "May I?" or "It's next May, May.") gives Sylvia some coins, but what does Sylvia do with them? Does she run off to get sugar? Does May follow her to the cane vendor? If this girl is truly young (how young?), May probably wouldn't let her go off alone in a crowd with 'hundreds upon thousands', would she?
quote:Returning to the bet vendor, May placed a Rollish copper on a short horse. It hadn't won yet, but it had to eventually.
Bet vendor is an odd choice of wording... I've never gambled; are they really called that? Anyway, I feel as if some of this could be combined into one sentence: Returning to the betting booth, May placed a Rollish copper on a short-odds horse that had never won a single race before.
That's my five pence...
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited July 21, 2004).]
posted
This doesn't work for me, either, I'm afraid. It seems like it's operating in a vacuum -- no setting, no character identification, no real hook. Particularly, there's no tension. We don't know if May is betting because she's a gambling addict or because she's just passing time or if she's literally betting the farm. What's riding on her bet, if anything? We need a reason to care.
From this and your previous posts about SoB, I'm wondering if Silvia is the 'sister of betrayal.' If so, she's not dramatic enough for that title. So far she seems simply like a very young girl with her head in the clouds -- nothing seems to phase her. If she's not the SoB, ignore this, though she still needs some depth.
posted
Could you give a sense of them being jostled by the crowds, instead of telling us there are hundreds upon thousands, covey the effect on the girls - bumping into people, fighting to see the track, May would be concerned about losing Silvia in the crowd.
I like
quote:No matter where she placed her bet, she always lost
as you can almost hear her grumbling in that alone.
I agree you need to look at Silvia's character in more depth
Also, the bit about the plague jars for me - its a bit of an info dump. Also if there's a plague in Jijan, why are hundreds upon thousands gathered in a public place where it could spread?
If it was so tragic, Silvia should have taken it badly. Why didnt she? Or is May just not seeing that?
I also like
quote: And the last two times it made an impressive effort. Surely now, it would win.
It didn't.
Again, it gives a sense of voice, of the way someone would speak.
posted
I'll agree with the things everyone else has already said and then talk about names. Jijan, Rollish, Silvia and May all feel like they belong to different cultures. Jijan sounds Chinese, as does the sugarcane reference. The other three could all be European. So, my immediate impression was that they were foreigners.
The other thing that made me feel a little odd, was that "sugar cane was a luxury". My understanding is that in most places where sugar cane can grow, it grows like a weed. It would certainly be cheaper than betting on horses.
I like the specificity of Rollish copper, but "a small portion of money" is oddly vague.
posted
From what I understand, sugarcane doesn't reproduce very easily. Stem cuttings are used to get the plant to grow as fast as it does, even in regions where it thrives.
quote:RFLong Also, the bit about the plague jars for me - its a bit of an info dump. Also if there's a plague in Jijan, why are hundreds upon thousands gathered in a public place where it could spread?
Well, to be honest, in those days there was always sickness and plagues going around. If a few people die, so what? Just life as usual and all that.
Though if you are irked by that, I'll try to find a way to slip that outsider knowledge in.
Mary
Your point about there names being stylisticly different is also valid. But there is little way for me to slip the explanation into the text--or maybe I should try harder?
posted
Phanto, sorry I didn't stick a comment in there about your fragment.
I agree about the dialogue.
From what I've read about plagues, a lot of people would be fleeing the city (especially those with money) and really odd measures would be taken that wouldn't seem so odd at the time (like sealing up people's houses or wearing surgical masks everywhere). Life would not be entirely normal. But that's the way it feels in your intro.
Although I can believe there might still be festivals and gambling and other entertainments, I would need more information when you introduce the plague. Is it a devastating pandemic like the 1918 Spanish Flu or does it appear in pockets like smallpox before it was eradicated?
As for the story elements, I just don't get sucked in. There's no emotion and little motive. Is May at the races for fun, to distract her supposedly grieving sister, or some other reason? Why does she care if she wins or not?
I'm sorry if the above review sounds harsh. It's just what I was thinking when I read it.
Pockets. Nothing like the Spanish Flu. But it's not thought too much about by people living in the times, simply because its such a common part of their lives.
The plague is pretty much like smallpox, but doesn't spread as easily on casual contact. And isn't as fatal. Only a 15% kill rate.
Anyway, you're all right that I'm not clarifying motive clearly. Harsh or not, I have to realize the problems in my start, and I thank you all for the critics .
[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited July 21, 2004).]
posted
a 15% kill rate is a devestating plague, in my opinion... 3% and lower would be "tolerable." In a town of... say... 10,000, 15% would be 1500 people. 100,000 would be 15,000 people, and a city of a million the death toll would be 150,000. That's a huge amount of death... and would wreak havoc on resources and the economy. Just think about how the West Nile Virus is perceived in the US... it's not an epidemic, but it scares the daylights out of many people.
I would still avoid any place afflicted with such a plague, just like I'd avoid an open vial of the AIDS virus whilst bleeding profusely.
By the way, I agree with RF's comment about the "It didn't" line. Keep that!
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited July 22, 2004).]
posted
hmm... okay... It sounds like you've got it worked out then. My apologies for misunderstanding your previous post.
Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004
|
posted
No problem . Still, isn't that amazing? A plague that killed 100% of the people it infected in around two days after infection!? Even HIV probably had a less rate than that (because of the slow rate with which it kills, some people who catch HIV die from something entirely different.)
Posts: 697 | Registered: Mar 2003
|
posted
It still turns up every now and then. Weren’t they just talking about squirrels infected with it in a National Park somewhere like Southern California or Arizona? Seems like it was just on the news this last spring.
I watched a documentary that explained how one entire village was infected and how they quarantined themselves off. To receive food, they would leave silver coins in vinegar filled holes in a rock and people from a neighboring village would come along, scoop out the coins and leave parcels of food. Apparently, they believed at that time that vinegar would prevent the disease from spreading.
posted
Was the documentary the one that explored the ways that the plague and AIDS are similar--namely in the way the disease penetrates into white blood cells?
posted
Sorry I've gotten so far behind in F&F this week. I decided I needed to cut back the critiques and start to mean business on my own novel. Now that I've got the whole thing outlined, I'm back and ready to yap your ears off with matters that are entirely my own opinion but which I think are entirely correct.
I agreed with what people have been saying about the fragment, so I'll try not to reiterate things. I do have something to add in relation to the conversation you've been having about the plague and kill rates.
I believe the suggestion was that a sane person would not return to a place where there was a plague and go out in a public place. Phanto's response was that the plague was normal "back then" and that this particular plague only has a 15% kill rate...and then you went on to explain what a kill rate was. (Thanks, cuz I have to admit I was confused too.)
BUT...there is a problem here, and this is the reason that authors are not technically supposed to respond to critiques except to say "thank you." (Though this rule is broken continually.) In the real world, you will not be able to follow up with explanations about kill rates and what people thought of "back then."
Here's the thing....so far, you have not set a sense of time, which means for all we know this is happening somewhere in the modern or future U.S. Also, once you do go and get us a setting we can really get hold of, if they really did have that attitude that plague was just a part of life, you need to show it to us. Like it or not, you are presenting this story to a modern audience with modern biases. Finally, and I do believe someone brought this up already, some measures would be taken to try to still the course of a plague. They may not work by our modern definitions, but something.
BTW, the biggest concerns I had with this piece were actually that I don't understand what May is doing at the race track, why she's gambling. I also don't get a sense that she's very upset about her parents just having died. It was kind of abrupt.
posted
If people don't take measures to avoid infection, then everyone will eventually be infected, unless the "plague" is non-infectious, in which case...it isn't plague.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
|
Sorry I didn't pick this one up quicker. No, I think the documentary was one of those "How the middle ages were lived" type of things that the History Channel is always doing. It was specifically dealing with little quirks and unusual events in the middle ages.
If you want to read an interesting history book about it, you might still be able to find a copy of one that I think was called "A Distant Mirror." It is a history of the 14th century. I'm sorry I don't remember the author, only that it is a woman. It is a pretty interesting book for being history and makes the case that the plague might have been good economically, since it released a lot of resources to be used by the survivors.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
.
. Be honest. 
