I really appreciated the feedback I got from you folks on the first chapter of my book. I received a lot of very helpful advice that I am implementing.
I'd like to post my second chapter (13 lines) and send to anyone who is willing to look at another chapter. On the other hand, I don't want anyone to feel taken advantage of. Is it cool for me to do that, or should I be waiting until I'm fit into one of the "official" groups? Please advise.
posted
How about asking if anyone wants to see the second chapter (without posting any of it), and if you don't get enough nibbles, then post the first 13 lines of the chapter?
As for coolness--the whole point of this part of the forum is so people can ask for feedback whether they are in a group or not.
Two young patrolmen were standing in the parking lot of the Bayshore mall. One, a compact, rail-thin man in an ill-fitting blue uniform, bit at the cuticle of his thumb as he glanced around. The other, a tall, athletically built man ran one hand through his short brown hair and held his cap in the other.
“Anthony, she looks like she was dropped out of an airplane,” the skinny cop said, peering up into the night skies as though another package were due.
“Yeah,” muttered Anthony, swallowing hard as he knelt beside the corpse on the ground. “I don’t know, Trev. Maybe a car hit her and tossed the body?”
“Maybe. But then where’s her blood? I mean, shouldn’t there be more blood…everywhere?”
Anthony shook his head, then stood up and put his cap back in place. “Look alive. The real police are here.”
“Huh? Oh.”
Two police cars, their lights flashing red but sirens off, pulled into the parking lot and stopped beside the two young men. A cop with a bushy mustache and greying hair climbed out of the first one and said, “So, what did you guys stumble over tonight?”
posted
Hildy, I can't read your chapters I'm sorry, school is so busy I'm struggling to even find time to write! I was curious though whether or not this was a complete work?
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Apr 2002
|
Rahl, don't sweat it. I am currently in grad school, starting my own business, trying to get my book published (yes, it is an entire book) and seeing my husband and daughter once in awhile. I totally understand busy!
posted
Damnit, I need to pay more attnetion to people's screen names. I would have been much more tentative sending you exceprts of my story had I know you were the author of the above 13 lines. People who write narrative realllllllllly piss me off. YOU, piss me off.
I can never master that real quick description thing. I've always thought of my narrative as a weak point, which is probably why sections of my novel look like a screenplay. I'm not saying that your dialogue was bad. It flowed really well and sounded like an actual conversation. Not just because you agreed to read mine, but I'd be more then hppy to read chapters one and two. I sent you my sotry so you'll have my e-mail address.
posted
Thanks, Infyrno...that's a real compliment.
The whole draft is quite long and still undergoing edits. However, the first part (of which you have read a couple chapters already) is in good shape. I'll send you that later today.
posted
You've achieved curiosity in me. What happened to the blood? Are there vampires involved? Was the car accident staged to cover up a murder by some other means? That's a good start.
FYI the link of physical descriptions to names was a teeny bit awkward. I had to read it three times before I was convinced that Anthony was the athletic cop. It's easy to build a mental picture of a rail-thin man beside a fat man. It's harder to build a mental picture of a rail-thin man beside an "athletic" man. My brain instantly tried to tag them both with the word "lean."
You might find a more flowing or picturesque word than "athletic." Perhaps muscular, broad-shouldered, chiseled-from-granite . . . something along that line.
posted
Thanks for the suggestions, Doc. I've been relooking at my descriptions in general, with an eye toward making them more concrete.
Toward that end, perhaps I can solicit a few suggestions. Since I tell the story from the POV of a couple of characters (one per scene) and there is a lot going on, I am having trouble inserting descriptors without them seeming forced or out of place.
For example, in this chapter, I can't figure out how to give more description of Anthony, who is obviously a main character in the book. I prefer the "show, don't tell" method, but other than a cliche like looking at his own reflection, I am stuck for how else to fit it in. Frankly, I run into this problem a lot with the central characters, and would appreciate some tips.
posted
I try to find clever ways to draw the character's attention to how he or she looks (or imagines he looks). I have a good example in the novel I'm working on; if you're interested, I'll post it.
posted
I think you should be very sparse with the descriptions you do give. I mean, nothing wrong with very general descriptions about body type--but if it doesn't matter for the story, leave it out. That way more readers will be able to identify with the main character, as opposed to feeling different because of a difference in body types.
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Apr 2002
|
posted
On the contrary, I enjoy very much having descriptions of characters given, especially those who are not the POV character. I am a very visual person by nature and like to have a clear mental image of the characters I'm reading about. It doesn't have to be spectacular or in-depth-- just some sort of tag so I can keep them separate and unique in my mind.
posted
DG, this is the main point that I use to distinguish between prose and visual art (like screenplays). Limited physical description can be used in prose, but heavy description should be avoided. This is because one can use a characters thought processes and quirks to seperate them, where as in a movie--you primary have a visual reference from which to work. OSC made a better point of this elsewhere by using Ender as an example.
He never explained Ender other than his age and relative stature. Why? So that anyone could feel as though they were similar to him. They wouldn't feel alienated by some differing body type.
Now, of course, I'm not saying that everyone is that way or that there is one way and one way only that it should be done. I'm merely offering some advice based on certain suggestions that I've heard.
posted
“Good luck,” he said and chuckled, touseling her hair.
As if my hair wasn’t already bad enough. Selene sighed. Her hair was baby-fine and colorless, too pale to rightly be called blond. It was long and wispy and didn’t like to cooperate, with an every-follicle-for-itsself attitude that was nearly impossible to manage. Pony tails worked only so well; silvery strands always floated around her face, getting in her eyes and tickling her nose. It frustrated Selene to no end, but she knew her mother would have a conniption if she ever got it cut. Selene blew a few strands out of her face and waved to her father as he left.
[This message has been edited by DragynGide (edited September 27, 2002).]
posted
I feel rather the opposite on the issue. In a media where everything happens inside the reader's imagination, I feel it is more important to give as many sensory cues as possible-- not less. But that's just my opinion.
Many very good books have been published with only the bare minimum in description, and many others have been published with lavish visuals that last for paragraph upon paragraph.
It really all comes down to a matter of opinion. There's no wrong way to do it, unless what you're doing doesn't fit what you're writing. And that is entirely up to you.
Shasta
*edit: In my own narrative, I tend to put in as much description as I can manage without bogging down the pace. This actually tends toward the skimpy side; the quote I posted above is probably the longest description in my book so far. But I find that I can usually put in functional identifiers and have fun with them without spending alot of space.
[This message has been edited by DragynGide (edited September 27, 2002).]
posted
In Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle the physical description of the character Mona Monzano was very important. Her appearance is a critical part of the plot (especially for John/Jonah, the POV character). More importantly, her appearance made an impression on me as a reader that has lasted more than twenty years now.
Frankly, I can't remember a single word of the description. But I vividly remember the effect it had on me.
FWIW Vonnegut had a very special way of introducing Mona Monzano. The POV character (and reader) knew a good deal about her before she actually "appeared on stage" in the book. I seem to recall learning about her gradually over the course of many pages, and constantly wanting to learn more. I was delighted (and surprised) when she finally appeared, and I thinhk I would have been happy just reading a 200 page description of her.
Perhaps my memory is faulty, but I suddenly have the urge to go to the library and read a few passages of this book.
posted
DragynGide, I thought your character description above was skillfully done. Instead of a static description, you wove it into the scene with the hair touseling. And instead of going out of POV, you had the description as part of the character's lower thought levels, her background thoughts so to speak. And it was short enough not to be intrusive.
Rahl, I'm wondering if the content of the description was more off-putting to you than to me due to interests. I have the same reaction when writers go into descriptions of machines, cars, spaceships, etc.
quote:"Get one with it."
Your typo, Rahl, reminded me of the transcendental mystic who went to Burger King and said to the clerk, "Make me one with everything."
posted
Actually, I think I'm going to make "Get One With It" my new, personal motto I really like it...great typo!
I really appreciate reading all your opinions and discussions on description, and your example, Shasta. It made me realize that I just need to add an in-line point here and there to better define my characters looks, but I don't have to overdo it. A happy balance...ain't that what life's all about?
If I understood OSC correctly, he was talking about not spending a lot of words on describing the POV character.
If you want to leave out description of the POV character, you can get away with that.
You really should not leave out descriptions of any other characters, but you only need to include what the POV character notices about the other characters.
Actually that's what I meant, but now that you meantioned this 'clarification' I guess it could sound as though I was denouncing description in general!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
