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Author Topic: Does this intro work for you?
rjzeller
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We didn’t expect nothing bad. It was just lying there all on it’s lonesome. Matter of fact, we weren’t even the one’s what found it. It was Mary Jane. She done found it over by that big oak near Barder’s Pond. It weren’t such a big thing at the time.
She run to us all secret like, saying “come look what I found me, Hoss.”
And I said, “What you found, Mary Jane?”
And Billy and I and Mary Jane went on down to the pond. We didn’t even stop to pick straw and chew it like usual we do. Not this time. Mary Jane was in a might hurry. So ‘stead we just ran on down to the pond, and sure enough, there it was.
It glowed. It weren’t too big, but it sure glowed big. I liked to cover my eyes the whole time. But not Mary Jane, she just stood there and looked right at it. Didn’t even squint. Billy took to it, too. So maybe I was the lucky one.
See, I wasn’t so dumb as to go on over and pick the thing up like Bill did. But I guess we couldn’t have known what would happen.

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Jules
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I'm not comfortable with the dialect. Its easier to read than a lot of similar things that I've seen, but it still distracts from the story, although it does enhance the characterisation...

I might prefer to see this in 3rd person with the dialect only used for dialogue. I'd have to see it to know if that was enough of it to get the overall feel of who the characters are that you do from this version.

The characters seem very clear to me, and there is an interesting enough hook in there to make me want to read more, despite the dialect issues.


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Kolona
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I never thought I'd say this, but it should be 'Billy and me' instead of 'Billy and I.' All in all, I like it. 'Course, I like Huckleberry Finn.

[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited January 29, 2004).]


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Christine
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This oepning is intriguing and you seem to have talent when it comes to writing, if for no other reason than because you were able to maintain that dialect consistently throughout. I am interested in what they found and what happened next.

That said, even though I am intrigued I would put down this story. The dialect is just annoying. I'm just being honest, perhaps others would keep reading and you can ignore me as that percentage who won't like it.

Now I'm going to read other people's comments to see if I have anything to add or if I've just been repeating...yep, looks like I'm just being repetitive.


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Gen
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This is a problem related to the dialect, but... I feel like you're having trouble maintaining the character's voice. A couple examples:

"We couldn't have known what would happen" doesn't seem to match the rest, especially with "We didn't expect nothing bad" as the intro sentence. ("Would" might need to be "was gonna".) There's one or two other places where the incorrect grammer and the word choice aren't consistant. None of it's glaring, but over time it gets noticable.

"We didn't even stop to pick straw and chew it like usual we do." Coming from a straw chewing area, this isn't something you think about, especially not when you're running to look at something. This is something an external narrator would observe, and not a completely sympathetic narrator at that...

So my big nit winds up agreeing with the others. I'm not sure, but you might get more milage for your dialect buck if you put it into polished dialect in the dialogue and an external narrator who can notice some of the stuff them straw-chawing hicks does without pulling us out of character. If you do decide to keep it in first person, you'll probably want to do a check for consistency of the character's observations and dialect.

It's an interesting set up, however, and Mary Jane and Billy are vivid characters.

[This message has been edited by Gen (edited January 29, 2004).]


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Jerome Vall
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I second Kolona -- it should read: "And Billy and me and Mary Jane . . ."

I like stories told in first person with a dialect, stories like HUCKLEBERRY FINN, TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, and even THE CATCHER IN THE RYE. If a dialect is done correctly, it isn't distracting at all . . . well, once you get the hang of it.

The problem you're going to have is reflected in the sentence that Kolona mentioned: You broke the grammatical rules of your dialect by using correct grammar. This is one hurdle.

Another is this: Is it really authentic? Are you trying to affect a deep southern dialect, or a hillbilly dialect? I live in the south (Texas, which, I admit, has a different dialect than Mississippi and Alabama), and I grew up in the sticks of Missiouri. And, frankly, your dialect sounds nothing like what I'm used to hearing. Have you spent much time in the south or in the sticks? In other words, do you know the dialect you're trying to write well enough to actually write it?

Again, have you read any Southern Fiction -- Flannery O'Connor, William Faulkner, Eudora Welty? You might want to dip into their writing to learn something about the south and how to get that southern feel into your prose.

I don't want to discourage you -- I think you have an intriguing beginning, and I would certianly be interested in reading more. And I find reading a first-person dialect very enjoyable. But from reading this little snippet, I get the impression you're writing about something you don't really know.

It would be like me, a Southern white boy, trying to write a first-person story with the narrator being a black woman in Harlem. I may write it, but I won't know what the heck I'm talking about.

[This message has been edited by Jerome Vall (edited January 30, 2004).]


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Christine
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Here's another consideration. After reading the comments and thinking about it for a bit I realized that the dialect you're trying to emmulate seems like your basic uneducated speech. (Not region specific, or even group specific, but vague and undifferentiated.) I live in Arkansas right now (I'm not a native so my experience is limited) and one thing I've noticed is that there's a difference between how a person speaks and what a person knows about correct speech. When she's with her friends my sister-in-law sounds almost silly with her double negatives and hick drawl, but when we're with the family she sounds fine.

The point is this, (and I know you're not emmulating an Arkansas accent either, or if you are you've missed) that just because a person SPEAKS that way does not mean that in a first person narrative of their experience they would WRITE that way. Maybe your character would, but who is your character and what would he do?

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited January 29, 2004).]


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Kolona
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Christine, repetitive comments aren't a bad thing. In fact, they're a great help, as long as they're honest. A writer can easily ignore a single comment, but when there's a chorus about a particular point, it behooves the writer to pay closer attention to that point.
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Christine
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Huh?

I'm sorry, I don't see where your comment came from, did I say negative comments were bad? Of course they're not, I don't *think* I ever insinuated that they were. ?


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Jerome Vall
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Christine,

Kolona wasn't talking about NEGATIVE comments. She was talking about REPETITIVE comments -- that is, repeating what others have already said.


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Christine
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grrrr...darn eyes tricking me again. Sorry, kolona. And you're right, repetitive comments are ok, I just don't like to sound like a broken record.

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited January 29, 2004).]


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TruHero
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I have to tell you that I am torn on how to comment on this one.

I don't mind the dialect so much, maybe it is the first person narrative that bothers me. Or perhaps the combination of the two.

I think I would like to see this done as a third person POV with the dialect left to the Dialogue only.

I don't know for sure, but maybe you would be the first person to write a Sci-Fi story with the narrator being a redneck. Complete with a slack-jawed yokel dialect. Which brings to mind Cletus from the Simpsons. Maybe that is your hook. (shrug)

Anyway it was good enough to get me thinking, and that shows you have something here. The ultimate choice on how to proceed is yours, but since your asking, I would go with my first suggestion. Yokel speak, dialogue only.
(changed last sentance, used to say "dialect only")

[This message has been edited by TruHero (edited January 31, 2004).]


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Survivor
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"Some folk'll never eat a skunk but then again some folk'll...."
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Kolona
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I don't know. I heard of an SF tale told about a Jamaican space effort, which I thought was a unique angle.

Personally, I think a dialect works better in first person because there's a built-in reason to have it permeate the story.


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loggrad98
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Sounds like a lot of this is personal preference. I personally dislike this type of "dialectizing" simply because when I read something in first person, I automatically think about that person writing said piece. I cannot picture someone with that kind of a dialect actually sitting down to write this and so it turns me off...but I still think it is an issue of personal preference.

...a side-note on dialectizing, you should check out this site:

http://rinkworks.com/dialect/


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Jerome Vall
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Loggrad brings up an interesting point: How is the first-person narration being told? Is the narrator the writer of the story, or is the narrator telling the story (and we're more or less reading a transcript of what was said).

When the first-person narrator uses a dialect throughout the story, it takes it has an oral feel. But when the first-person narrator uses a standard English prose style, then the story has a written feel.

This is something to keep in mind when you choose to write in first-person. Do you want an oral feel or a written feel?

I just thought of this, but when using first-person, it seems you also have to consider the distance between the events and the narration. The longer the time is between these two, the more the narrator can reflect on the events.


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Survivor
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For any oral narration, there has to be a context. It has to 'sound' like a person talking. Part of that can be dialect, but using dialect isn't required or even sufficient to create a convincing illusion of a spoken account.

Simply put, a person speaking out loud is speaking to a particular, physically present or presented (meaning evident in some way to the senses of the speaker) person or persons. They are in a particular location. This is entirely different from the case of a writer writing. For whatever reasons, it is common for a writer to concentrate on the page to the exclusion of all other sense impressions. This is not only uncommon but abnormal for someone that is talking (one reason that people who really like talking on the phone [or using VR gear] seem so strange is because they are responding primarily to a sensory experience that is not shared by outside observers--but they are predominantly paying attention to something other than their internal perceptions).

Dialect isn't very useful as a narrative tool unless you can persuade the reader that it is a transcript of an interview rather than a piece written by the narrator. And other than the overuse of dialect, there is nothing in this piece to suggest that it is a transcript of an oral narration.

Remember. People don't usually write the way they talk, particularly if they use a distinct dialect in their speech (-ifying). Even more so if they are sufficiently aware of their normal departure from the ordinary rules of spoken English so as to be able to reproduce it on the page. Humans learn to speak from listening to other humans speak, they learn to write from reading. Which means that anyone with a extreem dialect is going to have a pattern of writing markedly different from ordinary speech.

If you wanted me to believe that this was written by a person that simply learned letters and really is writing just the way he speaks, the first thing you have to do is remove all traces of normal punctuation. Meaning periods, commas, apostrophes, and all that stuff (especially quotation marks). It wouldn't do the whole trick, but it would be a start.

But unless you have a really good reason, I would just say write your story in a more conventional voice. You are trying to persuade the reader to read, after all. Why make things difficult for your readers?


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