posted
Okay, some outside opinions would be very helpful for me here. (Outside of my own brain, that is.) It's just a single sentence from a novel I'm working on. The sentence sucks a lot the way I have it now (as I'm sure you'll see) but I'm drawing a blank on a better way to write it. Eh, better ways I have, but a really good way I don't.
James was walking down the side of the road towards them, oblivious to their presence. HIS ARMS HUNG LIMPLY AT HIS SIDE, AND HIS HEAD HUNG LIMPLY AS WELL, BOUNCING AGAINST HIS CHEST AS HE WALKED. He was mumbling to himself. He carried the stolen shotgun in his hand, the barrel end dragging on the sidewalk noisily.
The caps sentence is the one I need help with. Feel free to rip the rest apart, too, if you want. The whole "hanging limply" repetition bothers me. I need to get the same information/image across, minus the repetition.
posted
The first thing I would do is take out the was's...
James WALKED down the side of the road towards them, oblivious to their presence.
The next thing I would do is completely recombine the rest of the sentences. Go back to what you're basically trying to say and start over. There's a guy walking down the road, mumbling to himself, carrying a shotgun that's dragging along the ground because he's limp....
I don't usually do rephrasing, so this goes against my nature, but I'll go ahead and give you one possible way of rephrasing this. Keep in mind that there are always a dozen perfectly good ways to say something.
James was oblivious to their presence as he walked towards them, mumbling to himself. His arms and head hung limply, causing the barrel of his stolen shotgun to scrape noisily along the sidewalk.
Yes, I put a was right back in here, shame on me. Anyway, I think I've said everything you said, but shorter and with less repitition. You basically said twice that he was walking, and twice that it was along the road. (Mentioning the sidewalk at the end is as good as saying he's walking down the road.)
posted
James was walking down the side of the road toward them, oblivious to their presence. His arms hung limply at his side. His head slumped down from his shoulders, bouncing against his chest with each step. He was mumbling to himself. He carried the stolen shotgun in his hand, the barrel end dragging on the sidewalk noisily.
The sentences drag noisily across the page. Err...just kidding. Just an example, but I think it should be broken down into two sentences. Plus, "as he walked" sounds a little odd after "walking down the side". You might want to drop an adverb, like "noisily" or "limply". "His arms hung lifeless at", or maybe they just hung.
posted
As Christine said there are a dozen good ways to change any sentence. Whether mine counts as one of them or not is open to debate but I'm going to put forward a suggestion anyway. Incidentally, I have to disagree about changing 'James was walking' to 'James walked'. Since this is an extract from the middle of a chapter not the beginning, the preceeding sentence might render that tense necessary.
He looked a wreck; arms dangling carelessly at his sides, head rolling and bouncing against his chest with every step he took.
Again the, 'he looked a wreck' is contingent on what comes before. Could probably be adapted to suit though. Another downside of this suggestion is that you would then seem to have too many sentences on the trot starting with 'he'. Possibly you could string the following two sentences together. Or, if this is a scene being observed by another character, you could add some kind of observation about the mumbling and/or shotgun that would link them.
Dammit, after looking at it posted up like that I'm not sure whether that should really read pace instead of step or each instead of every. Guess it's just a matter of personal taste.
[This message has been edited by Gwalchmai (edited February 06, 2004).]
posted
Depending on the full text, 'was walking' might be appropriate, as 'was mumbling' works below, as long as James isn't the POV character. 'Noisily' can be replaced with a more specific sound word like 'scraping' for good effect. I don't know that I'd describe a head as 'limp;' 'drooping' seems more apropos. 'The side of the road' and 'sidewalk' do not necessarily mean the same thing.
Maybe: James walked toward them, arms hanging limp at his side, drooping head bouncing against his chest. Oblivious to their presence, he was mumbling to himself, the barrel end of the stolen shotgun scraping along the sidewalk behind him.
If you need the location presented first, then: James walked along the sidewalk toward them, arms hanging limp at his side, drooping head bouncing against his chest. Oblivious to their presence, he was mumbling to himself, the barrel end of the stolen shotgun scraping behind him.
[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited February 06, 2004).]
posted
Thanks for the help. What do you think about this?
James was walking towards them, mumbling softly to himself. His arms hung lifelessly at his side and his head bounced loosely on his chest with each step. He carried the stolen shotgun in his hand, the barrel scraping noisily on the sidewalk.
I think that works a lot better than the original. What do you think?
Kolona, a question. Enlighten me, please (said completely without sarcasm.) You said,
"Depending on the full text, 'was walking' might be appropriate, as 'was mumbling' works below, as long as James isn't the POV character." Why? "Was walking" and "was mumbling" actually do need to stay because of the preceding paragraphs, but I don't necessarrily understand the principle you're following here. What is the relationship between whether or not James is the POV character (he's not) and whether "was" works or not?
Christine, the "was" you put into your version of the sentence is completely acceptable. It's the main verb...James was oblivious...which doesn't really cause problems. It's only when used as a helping verb...James was walking...when it can be problematic. As a helping verb, it ca make the sentence passive. Not gramatically speaking of course, but it feels passive. Even as a helping verb, though, "was" isn't an incarnation of pure literary evil, just something that can cause problems when misused. It has its uses.
posted
The reason is that a POV character's actions spring directly from motive and thought...POV characters usually don't passively observe themselves doing things, and when they do passively observe themselves doing things, they usually notice that this is what they're doing.
Follow that
Okay, that said, there are cases when a POV character can be the one that 'was' doing something. For instance, whenever the POV character is noticing something that occurs in relation to his actions, "as he was" performing them, "before he was" ready, finished, well started...you get the idea. In that case, the observation is of something other than the character's own actions. I leave you to work out the other cases on your own.
The principle stands. The POV character performed actions, not 'was' performing them. Read that a couple of times, you'll get the idea...maybe
posted
I have to confess that I have a very hard time visualizing someone's limply hanging head bouncing on his chest without seeing that head detached from the neck.
Whenever you describe something, try to make sure what you are describing will actually work in the world of the story.
If you said his chin was bouncing on his chest, I could see it; but even though the chin is part of the head, I need to know that it is the specific part of the head that is actually bouncing on the chest, or I'm going to picture something very ghoulish and yucky.
posted
Good point, Kathleen, thanks. I guess I either have to rewrite the story and make James a decapitated zombie, or rewrite the sentence and make his head be attached to his shoulders. Back to the drawing board on this one.
Stupid paragraph, giving me grief.
I actually thought about the decapitated head thing as I was rewriting it, and I thought about bouncing his chin instead of his head. The image I got in my mind though, was someone with their head stationery and their jaw flopping open to bounce on their chest. I just tried it and discovered that you would have to have either a very large jaw or a very short neck for that to ever happen, but that's the image I got.
Maybe his head should just bounce and I should just leave the chest out of the equation completely.
[This message has been edited by wetwilly (edited February 07, 2004).]
posted
Perhaps use a little more detail about his head hanging down. His head hung low, his chin almost touching his chest as if he carried a yoke across his back. Or as if his head weighed a hundred pounds. Instead of his head bouncing, I'd suggest it rising and falling with each breath. It would most likely bounce if he was running, not just walking.
Also, if his head was low, were his eyes arched up? Like a normal person facing outward but his eyes staring up at the ceiling. How could he see where he was going?
posted
Survivor handled that pretty well, but I'll add a couple cents worth anyway. If, as the main part of a sentence (see Survivor's post), you wrote James was walking toward them. or James walked toward them. the first suggests a distance between James and the reader -- either an omniscient POV or someone in the 'them' is the POV from which James' approach is being seen -- while the second is closer to the character and his action, and consequently could accommodate James as the POV character.
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jun 2002
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James was walking towards them, mumbling to himself. His head hung loosely on his neck, his chin bouncing on his chest with each step. He carried the stolen shotgun at his side, and the barrel scraped noisily on the sidewalk as he dragged it along.
posted
It still sounds as if his neck is broken or there is something wrong with his head in some way. You might consider making this two sentances and maybe allowing yourself some more description.
Maybe he is drunk, maybe he is possessed. You could use either of those as similies to add to the description. Perhaps he is in such a stupor that he is drooling like a suckling calf or infant with an all day sucker, something to that effect.
I don't want to put words in your mouth(or head) but since your asking......
James was walking towards them in a stupor, mumbling to himself. His head drooped low to his chest and bobbed up and down with each step. He was dragging the stolen shotgun at his side, the barrel scraping on the pavement as he pulled it along.
I think you could add a line or two more of detailed description and that would would help this out even more. Describe his eyes, or facial expression, or drooling like I mentioned above.
posted
I think that we've pretty well exhausted the usefulness of this discussion, though. I mean, the sentence is no longer horrible, and it probably doesn't need fixing. After all unless the action described here is the climactic point of the narrative (the the action described certainly doesn't seem like a climactic meoment of any kind), this isn't the most important sentence in the whole story.
Sure, it could be a little tighter (ex. "He dragged the stolen shotgun from/with his limp right arm, so that the barrel scraped noisily on the sidewalk.") and perhaps the description could be more evocotive and detailed (ex. "His head lolled with his shambling gait, his arms hanging nerveless at his sides.").
But this is besides the point. The last revision is not an affront to the literate reader. I wouldn't rate it as the best line ever, but it isn't terrible.
And when the author calls it "version 5,000", that hints to me that he needs to leave it alone a while and look at only when he can do so with a fresh eye.
posted
Thanks for all the help, folks. I've finally got the paragraph reworked into something I can live with. Your comments were extremely helpful.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Anyway, I think I've said everything you said, but shorter and with less repitition. You basically said twice that he was walking, and twice that it was along the road. (Mentioning the sidewalk at the end is as good as saying he's walking down the road.)
