posted
Howdy, folks! Took a week off from the story, then reworked it this morning. The following only comes to 11 lines, but it's everything that appears on the first page, which, I assume, is what we mean when we talk about 13 lines (unless I'm mistaken?). ------------------ The messenger was late. Bendryn’s eyes fixed on the embers glowing in the hearth and premonition gripped him. He imagined the dragon rising, bringing fire and death too soon, too soon.
“Stop moping, old friend,” said Cadmir, adjusting his own armor. “We’ll not fail you, Luthien and I.”
“My brother’s right,” said Luthien. “You may have been defrocked, but we trust you and your plan, and even that trinket. Courage, Bendryn.”
Bendryn fingered a small gem. Forgive me, he thought. We need time more than we need this jewel. ------------------------------ Better?
posted
"adjusting his own armor" implies that Bendryl was adjusting or doing something with his armor a moment ago, which he wasn't, so it sounds strange. Is he even wearing armor? (Doesn't make sense with what earlier versions said, but that may have all changed now anyway...)
posted
Is the trinket the small gem that the dude fingers? If so, you should make it more clear.
The dude fingered the "trinket", a small gem, description blah blah etc.
I disagree with GZ about the armor thing, I don't think it implies that at all, although I wouldn't mind seeing the word "own" get taken out of that sentence.
I think there is too much new information too fast here. Maybe too much information isn't the problem so much as too much unexplained information. Too many instances of "I guess I'll have to wait until later to find out what that's all about."
posted
<The messenger was late. Bendryn’s eyes fixed on the embers glowing in the hearth as premonition gripped him. He imagined the dragon rising, bringing fire and death. Too soon, too soon, Bendryn thought.>
From there, I prefer the dialogue of that other version. This was a little stilted. I'd also jettison "own."
Print out all your versions -- if you haven't done so already -- and lay them side by side. Read them aloud. Meld the best.
posted
I saw this post, and I really liked it, but something that I couldn't put my finger on bothered me. Wetwilly hit it on the nose, though: <messenger was late>, <premonition gripped him>, <dragon rising, bringing fire and death>, <We’ll not fail you>, <defrocked>, <your plan>, <that trinket>, <need time> - these are all new and unexplained ideas, rolling one after another. Sure, they're descriptive to a degree, but it's like you're not just trying to use one hook, you have a handful and it leaves the reader feeling a little confused. There are times when densely packing little details can be good, but I don't feel that the first few lines should be the place.
I really enjoyed the style and imagery. The only other thing was that the gem seemed very crucial to the plot, and then when I read "needed time more than the gem" came, it sort of downplayed the importance.
posted
I appreciate all of the comments. They have, I believe, been a tremendous help.
It might be fun to make one long post of ALL versions, so far as I have them, just so you can see what happens when several chefs of widly varying likes and dislikes are given permission to stir the pot. Hopefully, I'm taking only the best advice - I hold no illusion of being able to please everyone.
posted
The messenger was late. Bendryn’s eyes fixed on the embers glowing in the hearth and premonition gripped him. He imagined the dragon rising, bringing fire and death too soon, too soon.
Nice enough. I'd make it ...glowing in the hearth. Premonition...
But a good enough start for me, except for the too soon, too soon . I think you should emphasize the second one stronger than the first.
The next line would have me drop the book back on the shelf.
“Stop moping, old friend,” said Cadmir, adjusting his own armor. “We’ll not fail you, Luthien and I.”
Information overload from her on. I'm not sure who Cadmir is, where he's talking from, etc.
Basically it's like this:
The start has me walking firmly into your story. But the next part has me break into an immediate dash, breathlessly plunging forward.
However, the sudden stress is too much for me. Rather then endure, I stop reading.
Advice?
Keep the first paragraph, then introduce the information in a slower style.
[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited January 24, 2004).]
quote:The start has me walking firmly into your story. But the next part has me break into an immediate dash, breathlessly plunged into the story.
However, the sudden stress is too much for me. Rather then endure, I stop reading.
Advice?
My friends, have I ever mentioned the miraculous medical efficacies of Dr. Pepper? Yes! For a mere dollar a bottle of this curious elixer, you'll be on your way to being able to handle the quick starts and stops of reading-related stress in almost no time at all. How does it work? Why, it's simple, friends! First, your body overdoses on high servings of sugar and caffeine. Sure, for a few weeks you'll find yourself twitching and babbling and kicking cats and having intense arguments with invisible people on street corners, but after your body becomes acclimated to the wonderful rush of liquid excitement, it will dull your senses to levels where you'll begin to wonder if you're even alive. When you've reached that point, friends, you'll be able to handle anything literary that comes your way. And when you've finished reading, enjoy more cool, refreshing Dr. Pepper as a well-deserved pick-me-up (except for those of who have quit the habit - you know who you are!). You'll not regret it!
Um, that is to say, yes, I agree that this things starts really, really fast, but that's actually the effect I'm looking for. I simply have to believe that it is interesting enough for an editor to want to read maybe a FEW more lines. I'm still working on it, though. The whole "trinket/jewel" thing may be left by the wayside before the weekend's over.
[This message has been edited by ccwbass (edited January 24, 2004).]
posted
If the gem is important, why not start with it. Depending on its importance to the story, maybe describe it as Bendryn is fiddling with it. If he has doubts about the jewels abilities to help, that could let you drop a clue or two of what it actually is. Don't drown it in a history of the gem, or how it was made, just a bit or two of info to get a bit of curiosity. If the gem does play a significant role in the story, then it would be justified to start with it. You are telling the reader that the gem is important, even if you don't tell them at this point why. Just hint at it. You have time to give more details along the way.
posted
Phanto: Develop a stronger defense against your bulemic tendencies. Or at least refrain from actually mentioning how one's prose makes you throw up; really, that is just a bit strong and your point could have been made just as easily without going for the messy, smelly extra point. It's the kind of overreaching criticism I would make thinking I were merely being cute, and we all know poorly I pull that off.
Lord Darkstorm: The gem thing was put in as a substitute for a plot device that was even clumsier. As I currently see it, the gem is less clumsy, but still clumsy. It is almost a red herring, but one that depended on another motivation device which I am also dropping in favor of something more streamlined. Can't say more than that.
All: Snip, cut, tear - it's like writing form poetry, isn't it? Really - writing a sestina would require less work.
[This message has been edited by ccwbass (edited January 24, 2004).]
I know you're doing your best and offering the criticisms you believe to be most valid. I don't doubt that for a minute. You're right that I'm missing some of your points, but I'm not missing your points for the reasons you may think.
[Rambling response given. Bottom line: I don't read everything you write. Please don't take it personally.]
And as for the Dr. Pepper - now see? I thought it was cute and had no idea it might offend. Sorry 'bout that.
[This message has been edited by ccwbass (edited January 25, 2004).]
posted
Ah...now I know how you operate, CW. So I'd suggest changing "and premonition" to "as premonition," ending the sentence after "death," and using the "too soon" duo as Bendryn's thoughts or something, all for better flow.
(And I'm not even on Dr. Pepper. Coffee, that's another story.)
posted
Actually, Kolona, I got rid of the whole premonition thing altogether - Bendryn already knows that crap is coming down the pike, and he doesn't like it.
I've gone through seven basic versions of this beginning, the first and last of which no one has seen yet. I think it might be fun to show the evolution of this thing, if for no other reason so y'all can see that I do occasionally accept advice.
The first version probably makes it clearest that this story is actually a part of longer story. It's taken a while to turn this into somethign that has a hope of standing alone. ----------------------------------------- Version 1: “Lovorn has learned that he does not need the finger of Arakhan,” said Cadmir. “The spells he must use require ritual, and he will perform them tonight, so I have verified through Xandri, his apprentice.”
“Xandri is evil,” said Luthien.
“Yes,” said Cadmir, “but seeks to supplant his master. He believes that we merely want revenge, that we only want to kill the mage, and that we will do it according to Xandri’s ridiculous plan.”
“We have been through the plan,” said Bendryn. “It is foolish, and would be amusing were the circumstances different. Lovorn will become a horror in the land, perhaps even to the point of being able to become a Power.”
Version 2: “He’s betting haste will keep our swords sheathed,” thought Bendryn as he and his two companions ran through the moonlit streets. “Xandri’s ignorance may doom all of us.” Bendryn was a scholar, and friend to the two old knights running ahead of him. They only had minutes to reach the mansion, to stop the mage Lovorn before he mastered long-dead Arakhan and became both dragon and lich.
The mage’s apprentice, Xandri, convinced by Bendryn that Lovorn could be killed, played a dangerous game to insure his own survival. Xandri would doubtless have swordsmen on hand to settle accounts after Lovorn was killed, for Lovorn – nobody’s fool – had certainly bound up his apprentice’s magic before the ritual began. Such were the machinations of dangerous men hungry for more power.
Version 3: The three men waited for their invitation to assist in a wizard’s damnation. They had expected to have days to prepare; this evening’s note gave them hours. There was no time to assemble a realistic attack, so they settled on Bendryn’s plan of desperate madness. The two knights sharpened their swords, donned light armor. Bendryn, no wizard but a scholar of magic, wrapped his thoughts around the ritual they must encounter, the magic they must defeat.
There was a knock at the door, then a voice short of breath: “Master says Lovorn has started.”
They ran hard, wild with urgency. Bendryn saw smoke rising from scattered chimneys and he almost faltered in premonition: There will be fire and death too soon, too soon.
Version 4: Embers danced in the fireplace and black premonition gripped the scholar; there would be fire and death soon, too soon. How much blood to kill a god in its infancy? Did either of the knights know?
“Stop trembling,” said the older knight. “Courage, Bendryn.”
“Yes,” said Bendryn, “yes, we must not fail, though I am scared.”
“Listen to Cadmir,” said the younger knight. “We know your plan gives the only possible hope. We trust it.”
“Forgive me, Luthien. I’m no man of arms.” Fear made Bendryn speak quickly. “We should have had days, weeks, not hours to prepare.”
Version 5: Bendryn’s eyes fixed on the waning embers in the hearth and premonition gripped him. He imagined the dragon waking: Fire and death will come too soon, too soon.
“Stop trembling, scholar,” said Cadmir, adjusting his own armor. “We’ll not fail you, Luthien and I.”
“My brother’s right,” said Luthien. “It’s a pity you’re not a wizard, but we trust your plan, and your trinket.”
Only if there’s time to use it, thought Bendryn. How much death for lack of time?
There was a knock, then a voice: “The ritual has started! Come quickly!” Bad tidings! Now they had only minutes, so they ran, ran to kill a god at its birth.
Version 6: Bendryn’s eyes fixed on the embers in the hearth and premonition gripped him. He imagined the dragon rising, bringing fire and death so soon, too soon.
“Stop moping, old friend,” said Cadmir, adjusting his own armor. “We’ll not fail you, Luthien and I.”
“My brother’s right,” said Luthien. “You may have been defrocked, but we trust you and your plan, and even that trinket. Courage, Bendryn.”
Bendryn fingered a small gem. Forgive me, he thought. We need time more than we need this jewel.
Version 7: Bendryn stared at the embers in the hearth. There would be fire this night, he knew, fire and death, and soon. The irony of the situation chilled him: He and his two companions were no longer sworn to reverence life and fight against necromancy as they had during their younger years as priests, yet tonight, in this city, only they had the opportunity to stop a madman who may well succeed in making an ash heap of the world, and Bendryn would have to betray the rest of his old oaths and embrace damnation to do it. He let his two old friends believe that the night promised only swordplay and the killing of evil men, for he knew that not even to save the world would they let him turn utterly against the doctrine of their faith; some endings were worse than fire and death.
Version 8 (Rejected, for example only): Bendryn stared at the embers in the hearth. He wrapped his arms around himself and shivered.
“You look cold,” said one of his companions. “Did you drink the last Dr. Pepper? If you did, it will not go well with thee.”
“I don’t know what you’re talking about, Cadmir,” said Bendryn. “I felt a draft is all. Brr.”
“In front of a fire,” said Cadmir. “You felt a draft in front of this fire, and it made you all chilly. Right.”
Cadmir looked in the ice bucket. There were no more Dr. Peppers left. It was just melting ice and cans of 7-Up.
“You are so dead, little man,” said Cadmir, reaching for his sword. “I hope your last refreshment was worth it.” ----------------------------------------- Whew!
This is embarrasing. My favorite so far is #7, but #8 actually manages to flow more smoothly than the rest. What the heck?!
[This message has been edited by ccwbass (edited January 25, 2004).]
How much are Dr Pepper paying you? Is it an annual fee or do you get paid by the plug?
And now on to the side topic.
I much prefer #7. Bendryn's reflections as he stares into the embers do a much better job of creating a tense, foreboding atmosphere than the dialogue of the previous attempts. I did have a problem with 'who may well succeed in making an ash heap of the world' though. Ash heap didn't sound right to me (I know you used it in order to keep the fire analogy going but it just didn't seem to suit the flow) and neither did the use of may instead of might. Those minor quibbles aside, I'd say it was a definite improvement and I'm a lot more interested in the story than I was before.
Oh, man - I don't think I EVER want to see what I'm like if I get drunk. I remember the day I got all four wisdom teeth pulled. They had to drug me silly before the operation, and the interestnig effects of beng stoned lasted for hours after I went home. It was so weird. It was bad enough I had no control over my mouth and that I was talking like a freakin' loon and totally making a jackass of myself, BUT I REMEMBER EVERY SINGLE WORD! It was like I was just a spectator while my filters dropped and my mouth had a free day of uninhibited speech.
So, nah. I better steer clear of the Old Milwaukee.
Yes, I like 7 the best, and I will follow it up with some brief dialogue before shooting the poor fellows at their target.
My initial goal was to get them moving first and then raise the ethical dilemma that shows up in the last couple of pages, but now I recognize that that was a pretty half-assed way of doing it.
It honestly just never occurred to me that people might need to know why they were running so fast before they actually started running. I was going for an extremely forced hook, and it just wasn't working.
FOR THE RECORD: Sorry for all the Dr. Pepper jokes. My tendency is beat a horse not merely until it is dead, but until I've consumed it down to the last theoretical particle. There's more to come, but I'll try to pace myself.
posted
Does that mean you're not on commission based earnings then? Or does your evasion of the question mean that you are? Does it mean...no, surely not. I've solved the mystery. You are Dr. Pepper PhD, aren't you? Go on, admit it. There's no hiding from us now.
Posts: 156 | Registered: Nov 2003
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No, no . . . nothing like that. I'm merely an addict. I'm not one of those bad addicts, though. Thus far I've only had to commit the occasional misdemeanor to support my habit.
posted
I like #7 best as well, but (like me) you have a tendency toward overly-long sentences. I dare you to read the third sentence in a normal speaking voice without taking a breath. (Well, you might be able to do it if you had a Dr Pepper first.)
Posts: 1517 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
CCW I think #7 works better except for the long sentances. I did like some of the dialogue of the earlier revisions, and that is what I think is missing from #7. Some dialogue thrown in might break it up a little.
quote:There would be fire this night, he knew, fire and death, and soon.
I think you can take out "and soon". Fire this night already implies a time frame and "this night" is pretty soon.
I really liked
quote:to kill a god at its birth
Just what it infers alone is enough for me, very strong statement. I would keep that in there somewhere. You have alot of good stuff here to choose from I would start with #7 and stir-in some dialogue or personal discription. It might be nice to know what the surroundings look like etc... Just some thoughts I had.
Posts: 471 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I have another thought about the previous post. You know, in writing novels you don't really have to write everything in complete sentences. If it sounds better broken up (There would be fire this night, he knew. Fire and death, and soon.) It's more than allright.
*shrugs* I think it flows better like that anyway.
posted
ON LONG SENTENCES: Oh, golly. When you look at the shorter sentences of the first few version, I have to tell you that it was like pulling teeth to get them that short. This is, in fact, probably my biggest bugaboo.
And when I do start getting into the short-sentence way of thinking, I start getting just a little TOO into it, and that's how I get things like". . .saw fire and death so soon, too soon." Too much of that kind of thing gets on even my nerves - and i'm the sucker who wrote it.
What I'm having to do is unlearn some particularly onbnoxious habits I picked up when I was waxing fatheaded as Mr. English Lit. Major.
Eh. I'm learnin'.
Can't change Dr. Pepper to beer, however; what if my mom reads this site? Besides, I drank beer once during my rebellious summer of '82 and really, really hated it. Nasty stuff, that Fosters. No wonder them Australians talk all funny-like. Shrimp on the Barbie? What? That kind of thing belongs on Springer, fer cryin' out loud.
Good on ya, mates.
[This message has been edited by ccwbass (edited January 26, 2004).]
posted
Actually, very few Australians drink Fosters, or at least not in Queensland (where I studied last summer). They say that's the stuff they foist off on us Americans while they keep VB and Foureks (XXXX) to themselves. (Since I don't drink beer, I don't understand why these are better, but they assured me that they were.)
Australian slang- now that has to be the product of brain cell killin' Bundabee Rum, which shows very little difference from paint thinner, at least by smell.
Gen, who now knows what "Turn up the wireless and get us some stubbies from the eskie in the ute, mate..." means.
My only experience with Australia, besides having known a total of one (1!) real, live Australian, is with Jacko, the Energizer mascot circa 1987, and Yahoo Serious, oh, and that idiot croc guy who tried to feed his kid to an alligator, and, of course, the phrase "A dain-go ate my bai-by!!!".
Frankly, I don't know how they were able to produce both Jacko AND Kylie Minogue's butt. The mind boggles, the cheeks blush (heh.).
On the other hand, they gave us Midnight Oil, INXS, The Church, and at least 1/3 of Crowded House, so, hey - they're all right.
Jules:
The three comrades share a common history involving some or other vaguely defined religion. "Brother" is easier to write than "co-religionist." I agree I don't use it too deftly in the versions, but I still do need it to stress the religious point, which becomes extremely important later on.
posted
Forgive me for dismissing everything said above, and forgive me if my method of critique is improper, but this is the best way for me to do so.
quote:The messenger was late. Bendryn’s eyes fixed on the embers glowing in the hearth and premonition gripped him.
You do the same thing I do, and for the most part I like the habit. And that is to begin the story with a statement that seems to assume the reader have some background that they do not have. like, "it was a body." or "they weren't coming," or, in your case, "the messanger didn't come." So Kudos on that.
Also I love the words "embers," and "glowing" put right together. But I don't think premonition is the best suited word. It seems too wordy for the rest of the sentence in and of itself. Just kind of a flow issue, hard to explain. It's daunting size and commanding four-syllables seem out of place among the other more flow-friendly words in this paragraph.
quote:He imagined the dragon rising, bringing fire and death too soon, too soon.
Unlike some of its predecessor I really don't like this passage.
If I were reading the first page of any book and I saw a line like, "bringing fire and death too soon, too soon" I would drop the book. Dismiss it as cheesy rubbish, or cliche, or corny... catch my drift?
Fire and death put together....and then the repetitive "too soon," it sounds...melodramatic
quote:“Stop moping, old friend,” said Cadmir, adjusting his own armor. “We’ll not fail you, Luthien and I.”
I don't have a problem with the tag in the middle, in fact I find middle tags acompanied by an action are generally reader firnedly. However did you mean to have the quote sound like it was in passive voice? The "and I" ending is what I've referring to. It's awkward and I don't care for its flow.
quote:“My brother’s right,” said Luthien. “You may have been defrocked, but we trust you and your plan, and even that trinket. Courage, Bendryn.”
Trinket. Good word. Defrocked.... not a good dialogue word. Try for something more...prose?
quote:Bendryn fingered a small gem. Forgive me, he thought. We need time more than we need this jewel.
OK I would definitely substitute "a" with, "the," because the "trinket" as already been mentioned. The passage also suggests that the item is very individual and unique, I assume there is only one trinket among them, so "the," being more specific than "a," is a much better word to use.
Well that's the best I can give you, good luck!
[This message has been edited by Alias (edited February 23, 2004).]
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