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Author Topic: Revision, help requested
Meenie
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Hi
I've revised this to make more of Dreth's POV come through and to give the reader an idea of what the story is about, then plan to let the story unfold.
My request here is for some readers to help me with this pov. What I'm attempting to do is tell how Dreth sends his shadow to take over the body of another creature and transfer the pov in such a way that, even though we end up seeing through the creature he takes over, it is still Dreth's POV.
I can't really get to that in the first few lines. The section in question is 535 words and I'd really value some input on it.
(The genre is Fantasy, its a novel and it is a wip but my request at this time is just for this section.)
Thanks! Meenie

Dreth’s rage had not faltered after 22 years of imprisonment. All of his immense power made impotent - confined to this misted island - and the only way he could view the rest of the world was through his shadows. Only they could twist their way through the woven layers of magic that imprisoned him and find a host without the spirit to fend them off. Then he could watch, he could follow, could even attack within the physical limitations of his host, but these soul-less creatures could not channel his perfect magic. His mind was filled to bursting with the fury of it. He could not guide the course of the world through them. There was only one way he could break the magic that bound him and that was to find the medallion that was its source and destroy it.


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Survivor
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This still isn't pegged to a particular time and place, other than around 22 years after being imprisoned and somewhere on the island.
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Meenie
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It's a small island, he has the run of it but can't leave it's shores, being magically penned in. It's 22 years after the end of the great war - Dreth lost.
This is all spelled out later but didn't want to start off with history and geography 101.

[This message has been edited by Meenie (edited June 09, 2005).]


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Survivor
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By "a particular time and place" I meant something more like "As I stand here ironing".
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Meenie
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But he's not ironing (looking confused)
Ok ok... just kidding, I'm not blond .
He's standing there creating a spell ...
if you read further you might discover he's standing under a coconut tree.... or maybe not hehehe.
Meenie

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Survivor
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The point isn't what I'll discover if I read further, the point is whether I'll read further.
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M_LaVerne
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I don't believe this is the beginning of the story. What I'm reading is an explanation that should be revealed as the story developes. Perhaps the story should begin with Dreth inhabiting someone as he tries to influence the world--the stakes should be lower much lower. Later, we can learn about Dreth and his need to find this mysterious medallion. May be that someone could also become an important character whose motivations run counter to Dreths... I dunno. I like the idea of possesion and shadows but I'm not hooked yet.
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Meenie
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Survivor - I think the point is why the first 13 don't tell enough, lol. A few more sentences would make it much more revealing.
And you know, the first few sentences in a short story would be important to hook an editor, but for a novel, you send a synopsis and the first 3 chapters.
Of course I understand why they don't want us to post too much here for copyright reasons (even though this is a membered forum and you have to be registered to come in and why would people who aren't writers even want to come in and wade through all this stuff, etc) but I've noticed in most all of the first 13's I've read out here, that none of them really give enough info.


And M.LaVerne - if you'd like to scroll down thru the fragments and take a look at Legacy of the Medallion, you'll see where I originally started

Thanks, Meenie


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Beth
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You have to be membered up to post, but not to read here.

In my opinion, the goal of the first 13 is to get the reader to want to read more. There's a lot that goes into that - you have to convince us that you're a competant writer, and you have to create an interesting situation (most easily accomplished by showing us a compelling character in conflict, but there are other approaches).

You don't need to reveal everything - opening with a chunk of exposition is deadly. And you can't hold back from revealing important things, or you'll be accused of withholding information as a cheap trick to generate suspense.

It's a hard trick to pull off. But if you can't hold people's interest for the first half page, they're not going to be very willing to read the first three chapters.

The job of the first 13 is to get the reader to want to read more. I just wanted to say that again.


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Meenie
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I do understand that goal, Beth, but my point, as stated above is:
the first few sentences in a short story would be important to hook an editor, but for a novel, you send a synopsis and the first 3 chapters.
Novels unfold more slowly, have more to tell, use much more description, and don't always start off with a bang.
Some of my favorite books took some reading to get into.
Meenie

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Beth
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OK, good luck!
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Beth
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Based on the paragraph you've posted, I'm not willing to read the rest of the page, let alone 3 chapters.
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rickfisher
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Let me add my voice to Beth's on this, Meenie. Although you may send an editor the first three chapters and a synopsis, if they don't want to continue reading at the end of that first page, they won't. They have a huge stack of manuscripts to go through, and are just looking for an excuse to reject.

You're right, a novel is usually given a bit more leeway than a short story. Usually. A bit. But don't count on it. Published novels with a more leisurely start almost always possess at least one of the following attributes: 1) they were published some number of years ago, or 2) they were written by an author who already has a proven track record. Since this is now, and you don't (presumably) have such a track record, the leisurely start that doesn't bother you would still be a great hindrance in getting out of the slush pile (for those rare publishers that even accept unsolicited submissions).

Actually, it's even worse than that. Because so many novels do have to snag interest quickly, the reading public has grown more used to that--and more used to it means that they demand it more--and that in turn means that even with a well-known writer a substantial portion of the potential readership won't read past the first page without encountering something to keep them going. Which makes the editors themselves even less likely to read on. . . .

So while you don't need a hook, per se, and you don't need to start with a fight or battle (indeed, you probably don't want to), you do want to hit the ground running. You want to immediately introduce an interesting character in a well-defined setting, and at a time where either something is happening, or it's clear that something is about to. The more of that you have the better the odds are that an editor will turn that all-important first page.

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited June 12, 2005).]


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Isaiah13
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I read about an editor who once rejected 26 novels in 25 minutes. It was in an article posted on the SFWA website. Just something to keep in mind.
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Meenie
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Beth said:
quote:
Based on the paragraph you've posted, I'm not willing to read the rest of the page, let alone 3 chapters.

You may be right in your analysis, Beth, but
if I felt that way about a fragment I read here, I would either tell the person what I thought the problem was with suggestions on how to fix it, or I would skip it and go on to the next.
This kind of feedback isn't particularly helpful.
If I thought it was ready to go to an editor, I wouldn't be posting it here. I'm looking for some help. I know it has some problems. I agree, it's rough.
Thanks though, I'm sure you meant to be helpful.

Meenie


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Beth
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ok, meenie, fair enough, and v. generous. I apologize.

For me, the difficulty is that you have opened with a paragraph of explaining. You're telling me about Dreth, which is always difficult to make engaging - but you're telling us about him in a vacuum. We don't know what kind of creature he is or what kind of world this is, or anything, really. So I read this and say "so what?"

Consider writing a scene that shows the things you've explained here. Show Dreth struggling to escape the island. Show me Dreth, show me what kind of creature he is, show me where he is, show me his problem and how he tries to solve it. You could then weave in the exposition.

It will take more than 500 words to do that, but that's fine.


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Meenie
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Thanks Beth,
Now THAT I can understand. My problem, I think, is that I'm in too much of a hurry to get to what I think of as "the story". Which in my mind starts after this piece that used to be a prologue.
In this revision I was wrapped up in getting the POV right - which made the 13 line thing kinda frustrating because you barely get to the beginning of the POV issue that I'm trying to tackle with only those 13 lines.
The difficulty I'm focusing on with the POV is that Dreth, through magic, takes over the body of the imp... thus what the imp sees and hears thereafter is what Dreth sees and hears, and the imps reactions are actually Dreth's reactions. Also, the things he sees and hears need to be conveyed via HIS pov, not theirs. I've been focusing so hard on that angle that I completely overlooked the rest.
When I think about it, I suppose what happened here is something that often happens to many writers... the part I started off with isn't really the beginning.
Anyway, apology accepted, Truce? And thank you MUCH for a critique that is extremely useful.
Thanks, Meenie


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Beth
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Perhaps you don't really need the prologue at all. Why can't you just start with the beginning?


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wbriggs
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I *like* it when the author's in a hurry to get to the story. When I read, so am I!
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HSO
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The posted fragment almost feels like a blurb on a cover jacket. Maybe it's trying to be a little too much too soon. This much exposition early on is usually trouble.

Nevertheless, the quote that follows sets up your entire story, probably, and that's a good thing.

quote:
There was only one way he could break the magic that bound him and that was to find the medallion that was its source and destroy it.

Consider rewording this slightly (make it active and relevant, in other words) and starting with it. Then, show us how Dreth's shadows can take over soulless beings, etc. Step us through it. I would find that most agreeable for introduction to a story.

Then, gently ease and weave in the exposition as you go; always because you have reason to do so. Do not force it in, that's the death knell of any story. Remember, most of your readers want to be part of your story, not have it all spelled out for them right away. Take us along on the journey, please.

Good luck.


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Meenie
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Great Suggestions, HSO!
Thanks You agree with two other crits I got on this, but you were the only one to zone in on that good starting point. That's absolutely right!
Thanks!
Meenie

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Meenie
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Hi Beth,
Good question.
Several critters had said they thought Dreth should be introduced early on, so I was trying to get that info in there. Unfortunately, it came out too much like exposition instead of story.
I'm working on a big re-write now with more attention to flow and structure
Sadly, I go back to work full time tomorrow (boohoo, hehe) - I had a little mini-vacation for a few days.
I'd been out of the writing scene for a little while with an unexpected appendectomy in March and then a few complications. So I'm trying to get back into the swing of things!
Thanks, Meenie

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