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Author Topic: Polish on, Polish off: A Dragon Tale
Minister
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Here's the first 13 of a light fantasy short (about 1100 words). I only need comments on the first thirteen (although I'd be delighted to have readers for the rest, I haven't done any full crits around here for a while, and I'm still working on a couple of things in the story anyhow).

This piece is deliberately written in 3rd omni; I know not everyone likes that, and I know it's rare these days, but I wanted to try it anyhow. My main questions are 1) does this hook you? and 2) does this establish the 3rd omni point of view adequately and without unnecessary confusion? Naturally, any other comments are also welcome.


George the Greathearted had the most polished armor in Brittany. Madeleine the farmer’s daughter possessed even greater beauty than the three maidens locked in towers around the countryside. Thus, it should have been he who went to slay the dragon, and she who warned him of the danger. This being a fairy tale, he should have nobly ignored her warnings and gone on to perform deeds worthy of his great heart. But polish is no measure of nobility.

Madeleine met George on her way up the mountain toward the lair of the dread dragon Bigun. Behind her, she dragged the sword she had surreptitiously borrowed from above the hearth of the village chieftain. George sat beside the road, disconsolately polishing scorch marks from the steel of his greaves.

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited March 20, 2006).]


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Archon
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It made me smile when you wrote "This piece is deliberately written in 3rd omni; I know not everyone likes that, and I know it's rare these days..." because I'm currently trying my hand at 3rd omni short story, so I can sympathize.

The first paragraph isn't bad, but there's just something about it that isn't working for me.

"Madeleine the farmer’s daughter possessed even greater beauty than the three maidens locked in towers around the countryside."
A bit of nit picking, but this sentence is kind of wiggling.
'Madeleine, the farmer’s daughter, possessed such an astonishing beauty that no tower-confined-and-dragon-guarded maiden could compare to.'
Or however you want to put it.

Another thing is that I can't think of any fairy tale where the hero/knight ignores the maiden when she tells him of danger. Usually she gets kidnapped somehow and he has to rescue her. A damsel in distress sort of thing. The girl in this story, from what I'm gathering, is more assertive and plans to be the Hero/Knight of this tale. But from the line about how the hero should ignore her warning is bringing about the idea that in this story the hero will listen to her warning. I'm just getting mixed messages.

"My pretty maid?"
I don't like the "my." It's very strange from a stranger to say that to a girl. Maybe just putting it as 'Where are you going, lovely maiden?' But this is just more nit picking on my part and my own personal preference.

Cheers,
Cassie


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Minister
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Thanks, Archon! I appreciate your input. I've been monkeying with those first few lines, trying different wordings; depending on the rest of the feedback I get, I may not be done yet.

Good luck with that 3rd omni; it's tough (which is, of course, why I felt I must try to polish up at least one story using it.)


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J
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I really like pieces with an instrusive narrator (and this has that feel). I also like 3rd omni (huge Godfather fan-Puzo puts on a display of how to use POV).

I want to be hooked by these 13 lines, because I like where it seems to be headed. But I feel like I have to work too hard for it.

Speciically, I feel like there is a gap (I wish I could find a more precise term) between the first and second sentences. They don't seem to follow each other logically. The second sentence seems like a natural first sentence for a second paragraph to follow the paragraph discussing the Greathearted. Hope that made sense.

I would also be delighted to read the whole thing.


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Ico
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Ooh, another fairy tale writer! How nice. Let me know if you ever want to swap stories.

I like the third person omniscient viewpoint, but I agree with J; there is definitely a gap between the first and second sentences. I had to read them twice, to make sure I wasn't missing something.

B-U-T, I really like where this is going so far. I think if you give George his own paragraph, and Madeleine her own, it will be easier for the reader to grasp what's going on. Also, perhaps some sort of setting could make the whole thing seem more solid in the first paragraph? You can introduce George, who lived at the castle crowning the hill (or wherever), and then Madeleine, who lived in the village just below it... that would make some sort of connection between the two and give the reader a bridge when going from one introduction to the next.

Just a thought. Anyway, as I said, I really like where this is going so far. It definitely seems to be an interesting tale! Feel free to email it to me, if you're looking for someone to read the whole thing.

[This message has been edited by Ico (edited March 20, 2006).]


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Aalanya
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"George the Greathearted had the most polished armor in Brittany. Madeleine the farmer’s daughter possessed even greater beauty than the three maidens locked in towers around the countryside."

I've been sitting here for a few minutes trying to figure out what it is exactly that is keeping me from diving into the story. I think it's the descriptions of these two people. Given that this is a fairy tale I don't think the characters need to be super deep, but I want something more to latch onto besides the armor and her looks. I understand that you want to set up the typical fairy tales roles of strong knight and beautiful lady. You do that, but not in a way that grabs my attention.

My suggestion for how to deal with this is to think about your tone. How are you approaching the reader? If when you're writing you start feeling lofty or superior in any way, that's generally a bad sign. I've done it before, and it has always completely backfired on me. I could be wrong, but I feel like that's the tone you're taking in these first two sentences. Does this sound right to you? If so, try starting over with a different attitude toward your work and toward the reader. (Fairy tales probably fall prey to this often since usually they tell a story with a moral, so the writer of the story sometimes accidently falls into morality mode.)

Just another comment that the second sentence feels a little garbled to me.

"Thus, it should have been he who went to slay the dragon, and she who warned him of the danger."

I *think* this might be ok if you set up the first bit properly, but I reserve judgment until I see it again.

"This being a fairy tale, he should have nobly ignored her warnings and gone on to perform deeds worthy of his great heart."

I don't like the first five words of this sentence. I feel like you're dumbing it down for me. If it hasn't entered my mind by now that this might be a fairy tale, I must not understand what a fairy tale is. In a way it sounds like more of the superior tone.

"But polish is no measure of nobility."

For now I think this is ok.

"Madeleine met George on her way up the mountain toward the lair of the dread dragon Bigun."

The problem for me here is that this really has not been set up enough. The mountain? Which mountain? When did she start climbing up the mountain? Why? Last we talked of the characters they weren't doing anything, so now I feel like I've been thrown abruptly into a setting I don't know. This really distances me from the story.

"Behind her, she dragged the sword she had surreptitiously borrowed from above the hearth of the village chieftain. George sat beside the road, disconsolately polishing scorch marks from the steel of his greaves."

I end up glossing over the rest of this paragraph because of my problems with the first sentence. But a few comments on what is here:

It's really hard to take something "surreptitiously" if it's so heavy that you have to drag it behind you. Adding in the adverb from the next sentence ("disconsolately") I feel like this bit is just too heavy with adverbs, and long ones at that.

The overall description is just too quick. I don't feel like I have a handle on anything in this paragraph.


So... my main comment for you: watch your tone.


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Elan
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Minister, I'd be willing to take a look at the whole thing, if you aren't in a hurry for it. Send it to buce@charter.net
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Minister
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Thanks for all the input so far, folk. I'm beginning to wonder if I should have left my original wording in that opening paragraph, but it was kind of wordy and passive; maybe I'll take another look at it and try to split the difference.

I really appreciate all the offers to read; if ya'll don't mind waiting a day or so until I finish ironing out my new plot elements, I'll send it out.


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pixydust
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You can send it my way. I saw a version of it in the forum, do you want me to read that or send me a new copy? Either is fine with me.
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wbriggs
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I had no problem with paragraph 1. (OK, nits: I'd change that second "should" to "would." "Polish is no measure of nobility": I don't know what's wrong with George yet, so I don't know whether to be disgusted by his unknown ignoble quality, or sympathetic.)

Paragraph 2 didn't work for me. She's dragging a sword up a hill; you summarize this -- but it's remarkable and strange, and worth more time. (And maybe implausible. What does she intend to do with a weapon she can't pick up?) Or else this was just a stray thought, and it's not important, in which case it's distracting to me.

Looks like this might be a switch-gender-roles story. My wish: if that's your plan, go for a *different* thing, rather than having Hermione punch the bad guys while Harry Potter stands there unable to do anything.


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Minister
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Thanks, guys. Always appreciate your input, Will. I've actually flip-flopped on that should/would; my original wording had "would," I think.

Pixydust, I'm about halfway between the version I have up at LH (basically the original flash) and what I want to pass around in full. I'm hoping to finish up the difference today. When I get it done, I think I'll post it there, and if you get to it that would be great. I didn't expect to get offers to read here, since I haven't done any serious critting on this forum in months.


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Survivor
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A tiny nit, any healthy woman can carry a sword weighing...say, six or seven pounds without having to drag it. Swords heavier than that are not practical weapons for even the most heroically proportioned human. It has to be remembered, that actually wielding any sword takes a lot more strength than simply carrying the thing. Since you depart from fairytale convention on a number of other points (and it seems the point of your story so far), you should take note of that.

I like it so far. I think that you need to balance a few things, for instance, the initial description of George and Madeleine. And the control group of maidens locked in towers. You need to mention why they were locked in towers, since in a rational world--which you seem to be suggesting--it could be to curb their murderous/literary/lustful impulses rather than because of any great beauty. But overall, I like it.


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Minister
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Thanks for the comments, Survivor. I was hoping you'd drop by, as the resident POV expert.

I've sent the full story to J, Elan, and Ico. Thanks for offering to read. Pixydust, I've got the new version posted in the same thread as the original over at Liberty Hall. If you get a chance to look at it, that would be great; if not, don't sweat it. Thanks again, everyone.


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J
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Got your email, will read the whole thing tonight or tommorow. For now, I want to say that I like the girl dragging the sword. Her obvious lack of respect for the weapon is a clever and powerful symbol, and it creates an immediate contrast with the self-important, armor-worshipping knight.
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kings_falcon
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Hi Minister,

I tend to like the 3rd party omn. for story telling especially fantasy and fairy tales. So the POV doesn't bother me. I was thinking that you could tell us a bit more about the two characters by taking George's first description line and last description line and combining them. Something like:

****

George the Greathearted had the most polished armor in Brittany, but polish is no measure of nobility. It should have been he who went to slay the dragon and the maiden who warned him about the danger, but things are seldom as they should be, even in fairy tales.

Madeleine met George on her way up the mountain toward the lair of the dread dragon Bigun. Behind her, she dragged the sword she had surreptitiously borrowed from above the hearth of the village chieftain. George sat beside the road, disconsolately polishing scorch marks from the steel of his greaves.


***

While I like the image of her dragging the sword, Survior is right, I need to know why she's dragging it whether it is a lack of respect or a lack of ability. Regardless of the answer, it tells me a lot about who she is and why she's off to fight a dragon the "knight" either won't fight or just was defeated by.

Also, the dragon's name "Bigun" might be a bit too contrived.

I'd be happy to read it if you want.


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Dude
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I'll read if you need it. wolf_dude64@yahoo.com
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FastCat
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FastCat the Reviewer wonders who polished George’s armor, and who scorched his greaves.

Interesting sentence structure. It was a little confusing though. Why was polished armor a prerequisite for slaying a dragon? I would think that polished armor meant that he hadn’t used it much. Why were the three maidens locked in the towers.

I wanted to like it because it seemed like you tried to tell the story from a fresh perspective but it just didn’t flow as a story.


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Minister
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Thanks for the comments, FastCat and kings_falcon. In the version I'm sending around, I've already reworked the opening a little from the version that's here (based, of course, partly on the very helpful comments from all of ya'll).

Dude and kings_falcon, the story will be on its way shortly. I really appreciate the offers to read. Dude, if you'd rather just comment on it in a forum, the current version is up at Notebored in the Polished Stories forum.

Edited to say that I don't see your email address, kings_falcon.

[This message has been edited by Minister (edited March 22, 2006).]


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