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Author Topic: Three Monsters
tchernabyelo
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Fantasy - well, a retelling of myth. Whole thing is 4150 words. Looking for readers.


1. Prologue: An Evil Brood

It is hard to say what attraction she held.

I have wooed goddesses, and won them; they have wound their fair arms around me, when their husbands have been away. There are not so many, among the gods, that I have not cuckolded, one time or more. And I have a wife of my own, even if she bores me with her household cares.

Why, then, did I dally with a monstrous witch?


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x_nikki_x
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It is hard to say what attraction she held.

I have wooed goddesses, and won them; they have wound their fair arms around me, when their husbands have been away. There are not so many, among the gods, that I have not cuckolded, one time or more. And I have a wife of my own, even if she bores me with her household cares.

Why, then, did I dally with a monstrous witch?

"they have wound their fair arms around me, when their husbands have been away" You dont need a comma there unless you add an 'ofcourse' at the end of the sentence. And i also dont really like the word 'fair' in their. They are goddesses, 'fair' is not worthy of a so called 'godess'

"that I have not cuckolded," It might just be me, but I dont know what cuuckolded means, and it would just confuse me, I think you should use a more common word.

Your story is very good and has great potential. I'd offer to read it all, but im currently editing 4 other stories and writing one of my own. Sorry! Bye!



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hoptoad
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Send it my way.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 23, 2006).]


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Dude
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The voice of the narrator bugs me. I can't quite put my finger on it--maybe the haphazard way he throws together ideas, especially in that paragraph starting with "I have wooed goddesses..." He starts with wooing goddesses, and then cuckolds gods, and finally ends with his boring wife. It seems the cuckolding of gods is a departure from his point--what does that have to do with him dallying with a witch? It throws off the whole paragraph for me.

He seems a bit of a braggart as well, which turned me off.


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hoptoad
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I just wonder why it isn't : "I have cuckolded most of the gods — some of them twice."
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wbriggs
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I'll read. Not sure how quick I can get it back to you. (Nothing too graphic, I hope; I can take R but not NC-17.)
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tchernabyelo
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Dude - oh, I think it's fair to say the narrator is a braggart.

I don't understand your point about cuckolding, and the lack of focus of the paragraph. For me, everything in it concentrates on the fact that the narrator believes he is capable of winning any woman he wants, if he turns his mind to it, so can you clarify why you think it's unfocussed?


wbriggs - nothing remotely graphic in this; it's myth, and myth is blunt, but hardly graphic.


And no hurry in terms of response time. I'm merely grateful for any input, and wouldn't dream of setting deadlines (particularly knowing how slow I can be on crits).


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Dude
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His point seems to be that he can get any woman he wants. Unless all the gods are women, this sentence is not really related to the argument he is presenting. Actually I had the impression he was referring to the male gods being cuckolded because he specifically says that he wooed goddesses in the previous sentence.

I just mentioned the braggart thing because I don't like him already--so I have no reason to read on.


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Omakase
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He is referring to the male gods being cuckolded. Cuckolded refers to a husband whose wife is an adulterer.

Personally, I liked the opening. I thought the suggestion of hoptoad's was an improvement - "some of them twice" or "some more than once" works well.

Not sure where the setting of the story will be but if it is strongly in the mythic world you could substitute something more vague for "household cares" - maybe mundane concerns or something that is in keeping with the style. Hard to tell with 13 lines

Send it over Brian, I'll read.


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spcpthook
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I like it. A few small changes I would make but mostly just because of personal preference nothing that I can look at and say is wrong. i.e. I would substitute difficult for hard in the first line, I just prefer the way the syllables roll better.

I would rewrite the below line to:
There are not so many among the gods I have not cuckolded, at least a time or two.

And I have a wife of my own, even if she bores me with her household cares.
This line I would end at bores me and begin with 'I'; unless it's important that we know she is a homebody it is sufficient to know that she fails to keep him happy. It involves the reader more to let them fill in the reason he's bored with her.

One final thought. Perhaps draw us into the pantheon of Gods you are using (which also places us in the world)by saying something along the lines of Besides Zeus (insert commonly known name here) there are not so many Gods...

I'll read if you want to send it my way.


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kings_falcon
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I liked it. Feel free to send my way. I have a mother-in-law in town this weekend that I am trying to dodge so reading would be a good reason. kings_falcon@yahoo.com
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Silver3
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I have to agree with hoptoad's suggestion; I think it's an improvement.

I would have read on, for what it's worth.

Posted my crit over at LH.


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Keeley
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I would keep reading as well. But then, I recognize the narrator.

If I had the time to read, I would. I'm looking forward to a chance in the future, though (he happens to be a favorite god of mine in that particular mythology).

Good luck with the trickster.


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hoptoad
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Don't change cuckold. Its a great word.

It used to mean a man whose wife had borne another man's child and the husband was the last to know. Connotations of public humiliation.

Nowadays though it means a man with an unfaithful wife and implies that he is too weak to do anything about it.

It comes from observations of the European cuckoo, where the females will wander from thir own nest and lay eggs in another bird's nest to be raised by them then return to their own nest and their gormless mate. Somehow this came to represent unfaithfulness rather than the strategy of not keeping all your eggs in one basket.

In Mediterranean countries (read Greece and Italy), to make a fist with index finger and pinky extended (the heavy metal 'satan' symbol) is a rude gesture. It means basically 'may your wife take a lover' and represents the 'horns of a cuckold', but I don't know exactly what that means or where it comes from.

edit: spelling

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 24, 2006).]


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Dude
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The whole 'cuckold' thing still isn't working for me. When I read a story and run across an unfamiliar word, I guess at the meaning based on the context it is used in--who's going to stop in the middle of a story and pick up a dictionary? I assumed, by this method, that cuckold meant to fool someone. So my previous comment reflected that. After going to the dictionary, which I would think most readers aren't going to do, I read the definition and then reread the story again.

'Cuckold' refers to a wife cheating on her husband--the gods were cuckolded by the goddesses, not the narrator. The way the word is used is confusing. Also, the previous sentence says that he "wooed the goddesses and won them"--which is the part of cuckolding that is applicable to his point. Why does he need to restate it in this way? I liked the word, but not the way it is used here. Who is your audience? If you average reader is going to be thrown off by this sentence, then it should be changed. If you are going to use an unfamiliar word, use it in a way that the reader can grasp the meaning from the context. I suggest this sentence be rewritten to clarify the meaning.


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Omakase
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I'll have to disagree with you on this one - especially considering the audience here. When reading I usually glean the definition from context also, but if I'm completely unfamiliar with the word or the context isn't very clear, then I will look up the word in a dictionary. It certainly may be true that the average reader will not - but you're talking to a bunch of writers here and being that words are the basis for the craft...

Cuckold is an unusual word, but not extremely uncommon. It's the perfect kind of word a writer would use instead of a more verbose description.

Part of using a word correctly involves more than just looking up the definition the dictionary, though. The user needs to understand how the word is typically applied, if there are common turns of phrase including it, etc.

The verb cuckolded means to be made a cuckold -- the subject can be either a man who seduces the husband's wife or the wife by becoming an adulterer, so in this case it is used absolutely correctly.


Edit: fixed typos

[This message has been edited by Omakase (edited March 24, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by Omakase (edited March 24, 2006).]


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Dude
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Omakase,

My dictionary did not go into the detail that you have in your post for the word cuckolded, so I'll have to take your word for it. I have seen the word used several times in the past, and was not confused by it until now. I'm not sure this is the forum to discuss whether we agree with each other's feedback. If you want to open a thread in the Discussions section on the proper use of the word cuckolded--that would be fine.

Since you disagreed with me, I figured it was only polite to reply. It is up to tchernabyelo to decide what feedback he uses to revise his story. I gave him mine and he can use it as he sees fit. I will agree with you on one thing--if the writers on this board are his desired audience, then it seems the majority who have read this thread are happy with his usage.


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Survivor
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Technically, Dude is right about the way "cuckold" is used. A wife cuckolds her husband, he is a cuckold, the wife's lover makes a cuckold.

Most people that understand the term will understand the context here, though. In contemporary use, "to cuckold" isn't distinguished from "to make a cuckold", even though when the term was more common it was understood that the wife cuckolded her husband and the lover made a cuckold of him.


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tchernabyelo
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Sorry for the slight delay, but this is now on the way to hoptoad, Omakase, spcpthook, and kings_falcon.

Thanks for volunteering, and no time pressure; get to it as and when you can.


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SimonSays
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Tchernabyelo, I like the idea in your prologue. It intrigues me…a wastrel, wondering what power some witch possesses over him. (Is it love? I wonder…or just a spell?)
I do, however, like (X_Nicky_X) have some problems with your word selection. The phonetic flow, and the sentence structure seem off too (at least to me).
The first sentence;

It is hard to say what attraction she held.

1.) DOESN'T BEGIN WITH P.O.V. (as does sentence two; “ I have wooed…”)
2.) TOO WORDY (too many words-simplify)
3.) TOO ABSTRACT (generic, unmemorable wording)
4.) NO RESONANCE (no connections to the last line, that you also set apart;

Why, then, did I dally …witch?

5.) POOR PHONETIC FLOW (hard-say, attraction-held)
Try something like this;

“I wonder what power she possesses?”

1.) P.O.V. (First, or early)
2.) SIMPLIFY (5 words-2 words)(“It is hard to say”- “I wonder”)
3.) EVOKE (Words that evoke images, feelings…) (hard, say, attraction, held –WONDER, POWER, SHE POSSESSES)
4.) RESONATE (Connect, support, foreshadow… other lines) (power-witch)
5.) PHONETICS (wonder-what, power-possesses)
The second sentence was too long (for me) to digest at once. I recommend splitting it into two separate sentences. Allah Card) <smile> Also, contractions might be in order. You have 5 ‘haves’ in three consecutive sentences. They’re too visible… I’m seeing words, instead of scenes! My prologue got pretty much the same response…not enough showing. I tried for a dialog prolog like Ender’s Game has. I think I simplified too much. I punched it up with some scenery, and tags. I will post the edit soon.

Below is an example of (ONE) way my advice (MIGHT) apply. (Again, my way is (NOT) the only way, nor necessarily the best way)

“I wonder what power she possesses?”

I’ve wooed goddesses, and won them. They’ve wound their wondrous arms around me while their husbands were away. Few are the goddesses I’ve not frolicked with… some more than once. I have a wife… even if sometimes she bores me with her household cares.

“Why, then, do I dally with this witch?”

1.)P.O.V.(early)(10th word ‘I’-5th word “I’ve’) “Few are the goddesses I’ve…”
2.)SIMPLIFY (contractions) I have, They have-I’ve, they’ve(4-2)have been-were(2-1) There are not so many among–Few are(6-2)that I have not cuckolded–I’ve not frolicked with)(5-4)
3.)EVOKE (fair-WONDROUS)(when-WHILE)(cuckolded-FROLICKED)
4.)RESONATE (WOOED – FROLICKED – DALLY)
5.)PHONETICS (wonder-what, power-possesses, wooed-won-wound-wondrous-while-were-away, them-they’ve-their-their, why-with-witch, then-this, this-witch)


[This message has been edited by SimonSays (edited March 27, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by SimonSays (edited April 03, 2006).]


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tchernabyelo
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Thanks for the input.

The lack of contractions is deliberate; one of a number of techniques I use to slow the pace, to try and get the reader too both savour, and think about, the text

I'm intrigued that you're suggesting I actually include morealliteration, when I had thought I was pretty much "pushing the envelope" (for most tastes) already - again, there's a reason it's there (it's supposed to be an echo of genuine Norse poetry, in which alliteration was an integral part of most metrical structures - though I have no intention of going absolutely mad and trying to write the whole thing in malahattr or drottkvaet...). Likewise, "not so many" rather than "few" is intended to echo the style of the sagas.


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