Here are the first thirteen lines of 'The God of the Interim', a short (3000 words) SF story. I'd really appreciate any thoughts/comments/abuse you might have; if anybody feels disposed to read the rest, I'd be more than happy to send it along.
-A
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_It will last for a thousand generations, and beyond. It will last for as long as it is needed, and longer._
Dr. Namo knelt before the Chart. He contemplated the spiral clouds of diamond dust that represented galaxies, the golden thread that marked the course of the pilgrimage. At either end of the shining strand burned a perpetual diode. With reverent solemnity he touched his thumb to the leftmost light; then, his hand traversing the inconceivable distances represented on the Chart, he laid his little finger upon the rightmost. One beacon for the beginning. One for the end. Dr. Namo placed his hand over his heart, thumb and little finger extended, and bowed his head.
“Wait. What am I doing, exactly?”
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited April 17, 2006).]
Second sentence needs 'and' instead of comma. Lots of commas. I could follow the whole thing, though.The phrase 'reverent solemnity' is a bit strange. IT isn't the grammar. I can't put my finger on it.
posted
I first stumbled upon the use of diode. Are you refering to an LED (light emitting diode) or a plain diode? If you meant LED, the diode alone is inapropriate. If you meant a plain diode, I'm confused by the usage in comparison to the light. Personally, I think referencing the electronic terms is cumbersome unless it is important.
I agree with Susannaj4 regarding "reverent solemnity." The reason it bothers me, is because it sounds like a thesaurus lookup. I do not recall ever hearing those two words used in that fashion, and until this story, I don't think I've ever read them that way either.
posted
I didn't have a problem with this. It might be a little slow (we're seeing a lot, but not really getting much), but I'd keep reading. The line of dialogue felt a little jarring, but I assume you'd clear that up in a hurry.
The "reverent solemnity" might be triggering alarms for other people just for being slightly over-wrought. Consider cutting that darling in exchange for "reverence" or "solemnity".
posted
I'm afraid the last line summed it up for e perfectly...."What am I doing, exactly?"
Seriously, I see that you are a capable writer, but I'm afraid you completely failed to hook me with this opening.
The opening starts with a vague prophecy that never even hints at what "It" is. I am not fond of prophecies in general, but even putting that aside I think this is going to fail at building tension because it's simply too vague to make me care.
As to the first real paragraph of the story, it didn't make sense to me. I am looking for a stake in this story, a conflict. instead, I get something that feels like a strange ritual.
Like I said, you are obviously a competent writer but, IMHO, this opening needs to be completely reworked.
posted
Really Christine? I think the first paragraph establishes mood, tone, setting, even character, and it hints at conflict -- in a general, if not specific, way. Not to say you are wrong, but I'm just wondering how much we can expect to get out of one single paragraph.
I'm probably breaking some rule by addressing you, rather than the story, but I'm always curious about the artificial setting of a critique forum. Is it possible we are suffering from workshoposis?
posted
The language does get a little cumbersome. It's readable, but just slightly tiresome. And the sudden change in tone associated with the unmarked dialog...I think that it's trying to be a hook, but it didn't work for me.
About the title, would Interim God carry a meaning compatible with the feel of your story? Okay, that's really a question about the story more than the title
As for workshoposis, I felt that what the writer was trying to do here had potential. That's what my finely tuned workshopper reflexes told me. But my reader self definitely felt that whatever the high literary concept intended here, it wasn't very pleasant to read. So my gut is telling me that you're the one suffering from an overdose of theory and losing touch with the reader's experience
posted
Nice use of imagery, but the opening seems a bit slow for a short story. Before I went back to see what you had posted about word count, I had thought that I was reading the beginning of a novel. In a short story, you want to keep things moving. In a novel, however, you might be more able to get away with a slower beginning. (And I say "might" because it has to be done well in order to get the reader to keep reading).
I'm a little bit apprehensive about having "Wait. What am I doing, exactly?" at the end of the first paragraph there. While I was reading, I got the sense that he did know what he was doing. It sounds like he knows precisely where to place his fingers and how to read the Chart and then all of the sudden, you tell us that he doesn't. Perhaps it would help if you wrote somewhere that he was going through these motions and he felt some sort of force or whatever guiding them. Or he felt for some reason that he needed to put his thumb here and his little finger there without knowing exactly why--he just does it.
Other than all that, I thought the opening was pretty good. I like your descriptions (but then I tend to like description more than a lot of people ) and the mood you've established.
posted
I pretty much agree with all the other comments you've gotten. Your writing skill shows through, but the clarity of this opener could use a little work.
"reverent solemnity" would work for me if you switched it to "solemm reverence". While the first might be "stylish", it's stylish in a bad way, that is, it creates confusion and not mood.
As a sci-fi piece, you want to be sure the term "diode" isn't going to give your work an unwelcome dated context.
I liked it up to the point where the character says: "What am I doing?" Alas, with the first 13 I cannot tell if it will make sense to me within the next paragraph. But I agree with the others; he DOES know what he's doing. He knows exactly what to touch, and in what sequence. Going from action showing us he knows what he's doing to dialog that questions whether he knows isn't working for me. If he is confused about what he's doing, show it as he's touching the various parts of the chart, or at least set us up for that statement by including an emotional reaction on the part of the MC... is he nervous? Is he in a trance? How is he responding?
posted
I agree with Christine, there is no hook to keep me reading. It moves to slow, and has what I call a very "flowery" feel. The language blends together, but it just seems so "blah."
Your sentence structure is fine, you just need more of a "hook."
posted
I loved it, up until the last line. It didn't seem to fit with the rest of the vernacular. I would definitely read on, though, based on this.
Posts: 77 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I think "workshoposis" is a real worry, but . . . I'm with Christine. And the specific reason I'm not hooked is I don't have any idea what's going on.
Who said that first line? What's the significance of the chart? Who's Dr. Namo? What's the diode for? Why is he reverent? We see several things, but we aren't told why any of them matter -- what the significance is.
posted
Survivor, of course I disagree with you, but then I almost always do. I guess my point is that, regardless of your finely-tuned workshopper skills, there isn't really enough here to say "good" or "bad." Hell, there really isn't enough to even say it has potential, unless you're speaking in the most absolute sense -- in which case, most paragraphs do have potential. This isn't a matter of theory. It's a matter of demanding too much too soon. I think, and you're free to disagree, that if you pick up any of the big mags, the first paragraph of most stories would have only as much of a hook as this one, or less.
This first paragraph might do nothing for you. Who likes every story in a magazine, anyway? But I'm just saying that I often find here and elsewhere people jumping on a first paragraph for not sitting up and barking when, really, it just needs to sit up.
Will, I'm curious. Are your unanswered questions unforgiveable at this stage of the game? Or would you be willing to put your confusion in abeyance, trusting that the author would clarify. This is the Heinlen technique of avoiding the early infodump. Unless of course your confusion results from a definite lack of clarity, rather than lack of information, in which case, that would need to be addressed.
[This message has been edited by Rahl22 (edited April 18, 2006).]
posted
Rahl, I don't mind you asking questions of me. I dont' know hwo others feel, but I'll answer to the best of my ability. The truth is, I often wonder the same thing. In fact, I did wonder the same thing on this very opening...What did YOU see in it? Were you trying to be nice?
I find it amusing because I've seen many an opener that comepls me and I see others tearing it to shreds. I've also seen many openers with nothing, sometimes not even with the basic language capability of this one, and people find hooks in it.
But, getting back to this story...What can I expect in the first paragraph? How about SOMETHING? ANYTHING? The only thing I know about this story so far is that there's a guy named Dr. I can't remember his name and there's a chart with a diode on it. I only remember the diode because other people keep bringing it up. I don't know what he's doing or why. I don't see any conflict and if you do, I'd love to know what. NOTHING is happening.
I don't want to over-labor the point because I'd hate to scare off our new member...
I understand what you mean by workshoping something...you hear words and you start looking for those problems in stories. I've ranted against this once or twice (either in my own head or on this forum, maybe both . Truly, though, I'm not trying to use concepts of what "should" or "could" be...I'm only trying to say what is.
And if you'd like to discuss the phenomenon of workshoping further, we should probably take it away from poor Rand's story as he probably feels overwhelmed enough as it is.
posted
Thanks Christine, that's exactly what I was wondering.
In this paragraph, I got a sense of the main character, I got setting, and I feel like I got a hint of conflict -- not conflict, not exactly, but the mood of the paragraph, how he's taken the travel as a life's mission. It might help that I didn't see that first line as prophecy, but rather talking about a sort of colony-ship interstellar travel.
Basically, it was good enough for me, for now. I mentioned earlier that it could probably pick up the pace a bit, but I didn't NEED it.
Thanks for not reading too much into my first question
Thanks for the feedback - these are some good points, which I've taken to heart. I can also see that the 'first thirteen' for this story highilight a weakness of this format (or possibly of my story ... nah). Regardless, another few lines would certainly have given a lot more clarity.
Therein lies the dilemma of the BB-based writer's workshop. Limit sample-size to the first thirteen lines, and you may be left without any clear idea of what's actually going on. Allow writers to determine the size of their own excerpts, however, and pretty soon you're scrolling through an entire novel. I suppose we're best served by assuming that Uncle Orson knows best.
That said, if anybody is interested in seeing the next few lines of 'The God of the Interim', or the whole darn shootin' match, I'd be delighted. Let me know.
posted
I liked the prophesy and the first paragraph. I think the last line >“Wait. What am I doing, exactly?”< is a critical line. For me it's setting up the hook--here's how I read it: In the 1st paragraph, Dr. Namo is acting out of a reverence he feels deep inside his soul, but on the surfuce he is trying to reject that reverence. Does that make any sense? It's like the atheist who, when her car is spinnig out of control, thinks 'Please God help me.' If I'm reading your intentions right, then I think that last line needs to be stronger. It needs to convey his emotions more. By the way, reverent solemnity works for me.
Posts: 88 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Rand, you are assuming that, had you posted 30 lines, I would have continued reading them. As it happens, I had to force myself to read the cumbersome paragraph, skimmed the last half to the bit of dialogue, and upon seeing that would not have read another paragraph even had it been there.
In other words, you don't get fifteen lines this time. This is all you get. At least for me.
posted
I, on the other hand, rather liked the opening (I think it was the pilgrimage that does the trick; it sits at odds with the apparent far-future SF setting), and if you want to pass it my way for a full critique, I'd welcome it.
But be warned. I'm not the speediest of critters. If you're in a hurry for a response, look elsewhere.
quote:Therein lies the dilemma of the BB-based writer's workshop. Limit sample-size to the first thirteen lines, and you may be left without any clear idea of what's actually going on.
The 1st 13 aren't intended to make everything clear that will happen later in the novel. Everything written within the first 13 should make sense though. Except for the minor points I addressed, I felt you achieved that, with one exception...
Christine wrote:
quote:I'm afraid the last line summed it up for e perfectly...."What am I doing, exactly?"
I almost wrote a very similar comment, but decided against it. When I read that, it pulled me out of the story faster than I ever had been before. The previous paragraph doesn't seem to flow in theme with that line of dialogue. No amount of text afterwards would've helped me. This is the exception I mentioned. Maybe changing the tone of the dialogue would help.
The 13 lines does present a limit which I'm not convinced is useful (one "page" seems more reasonable to me). Nevertheless, it is your job to decide what to do about the feedback. Maybe you can try a few different ways to deliver that dialogue, and find one you like better. Or, maybe you'll decide what you have is best.
posted
I'm pretty sure we've had about a hundred discussions of the first line limitations, but for the sake of the newbies, I will try to make this a little more clear.
I don't expect a lot in 13 lines. I really don't. There are a lot of ways to make your first thirteen lines succesful for me. Perhaps I should do a little more commentaries around here so you can see that in action, but I don't have as much time as I used to so I pick and choose quite a bit. Here are a sample of ways you can hook me with 13 lines:
1. Conflict...not action. Action rarely hooks me. Conflict, on the other hand, creates story tension. I love conflict in the first sentence, be it a fight between mother and daughter or a man struggling for his life in an alien tundra.
2. Character...this only works if the character is strong enough and interesting enough, but a character can hook me in even with minimal or no conflict (he better be darn good with no conflict...I didn't list that as number one idly.) Still, if you go down you will se a post by EmilyAsAlways that hooked me with a solid character and very little else. It didn't work as well for others, but there, in the first 13 lines, it worked for me.
3. Shock value. If something is weird enough, it might hook me too, although there is usually imjplied conflict here as well. Be careful...unclear situations are not shocking to me. I've seen to much random psychodelic weirdness to care.
Keep in mind that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. What I want to caution you on is assuming that 13 lines of a short story isn't enough to convey the true start. This piece is a perfect example of that. There were quite a few who found what they were looking for in those 13 lines. Rahl, in particular, gleamed something from the first line that I missed until he said it aloud (in a manner of speaking)...that the first line wasn't prophecy but a description of a colony ship. It makes more sense now, but it may or may not mean something to you that some of us didn't get that right away. It seems to be important to your beginning that we understand that.
posted
I feel like I maybe started something I shouldn't have. Everyone's interpretation of this excerpt is valid. Furthermore, this was stated as a short story, not a novel, and as such, those who claim this moves too slowly (myself included, to a point) have even sturdier grounds.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that, even if this worked for some of us, it is now clear that it didn't work for others. As a writer, I know one of my goals is the widest level of accessibility as possible. So, with that in mind, this exerpt maybe has a little ways to go.
Thank you, everyone. I've learned something valuable from this conversation.
posted
That you learned something is an excellent indicator that you "started something" you should have. Whatever it was, I'm glad you learned it.
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I liked it. The very first line, the prophesy, could have benefitted from quotations, italicizing, or something to make it clearer but again I liked the first 13 overall.
There was a big ol' hint at conflict in that we don't know why he suddenly questions his faith with the last line.
There are definitely stories that fail utterly in the first 13 but I think this one falls within the "personal taste" boundary.
posted
I'm looking for only one thing in the first thirteen.
Do you know how to communicate rather than obfuscate?
This opening has some conscious use of devices with which I'm familiar as an experienced reader and writer. It comes close to making me feel that the writer has invested in learning the craft.
But the actual implementation of those devices, the prophetic quote, the dramatic language, the juxtaposition of iconic arcana with advanced technology, the sudden shift in voice...they're all a bit clumsy and they don't seem to mean anything. Yes, I can study this out and discover a number of things the writer is doing...but it doesn't make me feel like reading.
So we have a story about people who've lived under this "religion" that is mainly designed to make it possible for them to carry out a mission that requires millenia for its implementation. Whether the worship was planned from the beginning, or whether it grew up over time...all the information is there, but it feels like I have to dig it out rather than just being able to read it.
This is not as bad as some openings I've seen. But it has a ways to go in terms of execution.
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