...

We galloped across the street of stone, I and my mates and the girl. A fair one was she, hair the color of a demon's gaze and eyes cold as a wintry lake. Twin moons gleamed cat's eyes, casting shadows long and deep, and their wild patterns were as chilling an omen as a raven broken upon the ground. Stealthily their shadows crept up our pounding calves and thighs, only to slither back as our legs raised for a fresh assault upon the cobblestone. The girl's dismayed sobs were drowned in the torrent of our laughter, for no man dared cross we demons, we men, we pirates. We Pirates of Je Pense!
Far behind our cheery clan, a mob smelt our path with their ears, feeling our cries beat upon their eardrums and resound in their minds. They sought the girl, but they could not have her- no!

...

Any comments are appreciated on those lines, but anyone who has the time required to read and critique the rest (20,859 words) may ask, and I will email it to them. I realize the first lines don't give a very clear idea of where the story is going, so here's the gist:

After the near-total destruction of Earth by nuclear war, the survivors migrate to other planets. As a result of their suffering, they have become terrified of science. A two-thousand year dark age of superstitious fundamentalism ensues, complete with an utter reversion to late-medieval-style civilization. From that arises a small colony, Je Pense (named for Descartes famous statement, "Je pense, donc je suis"- 'I think, therefore I am') of free-thinkers and scientists, who wish to rebuild human civilization and end religious totalitarianism. The colony sends out small groups, called 'pirates', to various worlds to attempt to reintroduce the principles of science and reason, and to rescue the victims of religious persecution.

I think the plot outline is very interesting and offers a lot of opportunity for poking at society. But the idea of free-thinkers/scientists seems to be at odds with the notion of pirates.

As for the thirteen lines, they didn't exactly grip me (but I do find it hard to be gripped by thirteen lines), but the synopsis did. I liked it and would read on. But to get the maximum out of thirteen lines I would've liked to see a couple of hints to the story. Basically, the synopsis and thirteen lines seem to be two different entities.

Perhaps it is a fault on my part, but 'smelt our path with their ears' doesn't work for me.

Originally the characters were all just going to be scientists, modern white-coat types, but I got about 1000 words into a story that involved them picking up a girl who was about to be burned as a witch and realized they were dull as hell. I liked the girl, but she was basically crying out to me to give her some actual characters to interact with. So instead of dull science types, they're Renaissance Men. They're eloquent, gaudy, and flamboyant; they're philosophers and poets, not just scientists, and very similar in character to the romanticized pirate.

>> Basically, the synopsis and thirteen lines seem to be two different entities.

I have to say that, on the basis of the opening text as it stands, I believed that this gang of pirates had abducted the girl and were raping her in the street, bold as you please. That's how I read it.

I also think that you need to explore how the colonists became terrified of science when they fled Earth in spaceships that were presumably the result of advanced technology. It isn't hard, the "free-thinking pirates" thing can be your starting point rather than your response. In other words, the mass of colonists were terrorized during the journey and the early stages of colonization by a relatively small elite of "rationalists" who did whatever was necessary for the overall success of the colonization effort, no matter how morally repugnant. You could have them engaging in an effort to elinate religious influence after it becomes necessary to institute direct cannibalism or some other horrifying survival measure which provokes the religious leaders to pronounce them ungodly and immoral. Then it becomes a holy war, and the rationalist elites find themselves generally ejected from most of the planetary colonies. Surprisingly, the colonists survive and even thrive by following their archaic and "irrational" superstitions, and the elites become an even smaller minority confined to a single base of operations.

I don't know how you got that: I thought I made it clear they were *running* in the text.

>>I also think that you need to explore how the colonists became terrified of science when they fled Earth in spaceships that were presumably the result of advanced technology.

That's cleared up in the text. They left Earth with a general distrust of science and rationality, but that doesn't mean they would be totally unwilling to use its benefits. Imagine the modern fundamentalist who rails against evolution or stem cell research but has no problems using a telephone or computer. Over centuries the legend of Earth's demise grows, until Earth is remembered not as the ancestral home of mankind, but the home of the gods, and the advanced technology that destroyed it becomes the insidious magics of demons.

>>You also need to give them a motive to save the girl.

I don't know what color a demon's gaze is.

Twin moons gleamed cat's eyes: since we were just talkinga bout the girl's eyes, I wasn't sure if they were the twin moons, or if there were really two moons. I don't know what wild shadow patterns look like, or how shadows can creep up running legs (seems to me the shadows change quickly).

>The girl's dismayed sobs were drowned in the torrent
I care a lot more about knowing what's going on with the girl and the pirates than what the shadows look like. Why is she dismayed? Is she being kidnapped? Or is she a bad guy being brought to justice?

>no man dared cross we demons
No man dared cross we? In Standard English, this woudl be "us."

>a mob smelt our path with their ears
Huh?
If you mean the mob heard us, it would be easier to read if you said that.

If I don't find out what's happening in the next paragraph, I'd stop reading. But I assume that's about to happen.

--

Synopsis of the idea: you can make any idea work, I think. I'm a little weary of this one -- brave humanists rescuing worlds from backward religious oppression.

I think it will be more interesting if you blur the sides a bit. Let the brave freethinkers be rigid in their own way. Let the superstitious fundamentalists have a point -- or else see the dispute in very alien terms -- and let their fundamentalism AND the humanists be something other than modern Baptists and modern atheists. It's 2000 years in the future; culture is bound to be quite different.

I also think you'd do well to have something other than nuclear war as the disaster. You can do what you want, but I think if we had a nuclear war, the survivors wouldn't be able to get to the moon, much less other star systems. How about if there's a thriving Solar System civilization, then it gets destroyed by some futuristic-weapon war? Just for variety's sake.

Red.

>>Twin moons gleamed cat's eyes: since we were just talkinga bout the girl's eyes, I wasn't sure if they were the twin moons, or if there were really two moons. I don't know what wild shadow patterns look like, or how shadows can creep up running legs (seems to me the shadows change quickly).

Good points.

>>I think it will be more interesting if you blur the sides a bit. Let the brave freethinkers be rigid in their own way. Let the superstitious fundamentalists have a point -- or else see the dispute in very alien terms -- and let their fundamentalism AND the humanists be something other than modern Baptists and modern atheists. It's 2000 years in the future; culture is bound to be quite different.

They aren't just atheists; there are theists, agnostics, deists, pantheists, etc, and in general they have a worldview closer to modern pantheists. They place more emphasis on 'live and let live' than Richard Dawkins and his ilk. The fundamentalists aren't the modern variety, but closer to medieval fundamentalism.

>>I also think you'd do well to have something other than nuclear war as the disaster. You can do what you want, but I think if we had a nuclear war, the survivors wouldn't be able to get to the moon, much less other star systems. How about if there's a thriving Solar System civilization, then it gets destroyed by some futuristic-weapon war? Just for variety's sake.

You're right, and I've been working on coming up with a bit different historical device. I realize 'nuclear war blew up the Earth, let's deal with the consequences' is fairly cliche. However, this is *not* hard SF, and I don't want to focus on the science details more than I need to. Everyone already knows what a nuclear war does.

The narrator seems to have a bit too much Jack Sparrow in him. "They're Renaissance Men. They're eloquent, gaudy, and flamboyant" These two things don't necessarily go together. I'm not saying it's a bad choice but just something to consider. I didn't have any idea from the 13 that these men were anything more than stereotyped pirates on a rob and plunder raid. I need to know that.

The "traditional" Renaissance Man is one who is an expert or adept in more than one discipline - usually and art and a science. There is a gentleman I know who is a modern Renaissance Man, he's one of the best domestic relations lawyers and also a master cook and owner of several high end resturants. There is, however, nothing flamboyant about him. In fact, he's very understated.

If the girl wanted a better group of characters to interact with, you might want to rethink the first person narrative or whether this unidentified MC is the right first person narrator. You might want to focus on her and how she perceives these self-appointed pirates. Anyway it is your choice, and just a thought I had based on how you got here.

"We galloped" - made me think they were Centaurs. Horses gallop. People kick or nudge or whatever thier horses into a gallop.

"Twin moons . . . ground." seems like an awfully detailed description from a character who was fleeing for his life. The high adverb content didn't work for me either.

"Thier shadows" - whose? The raven? Hu?

Right now I'm not sure who is "slithering back."

"beat upon thier eardrums and resounded in thier minds" - how do you do this? It seems too flowery and odd. In fact, wondering about this and some of the other images pulled me out of the narrative.

I'm the only one saying this explicitly, so take it for what it's worth, but your first 13 sound like you're trying to be very poetic. It could work, but I imagine that I'd have a a hard time sitting through 20K words of it. I also imagine it would be hard to maintain. You might tone it down a bit to make it easier on yourself and the reader. You could still have this flavor, but used as the spice instead of as the meat.

"Pirates of Je Pense" immediately made me think of "Pirates of Penzance." Is that just me? Was it intentional?

quote:

---

The fundamentalists aren't the modern variety, but closer to medieval fundamentalism.

---

If you want to make the rationalists-versus-religionists thing a _theme_, I suggest you make them less stereotypical. Read the rational writing of great religious thinkers: Fides et Ratio, aka Faith and Reason, by Pope John Paul II (found here) might be a good one, because it is a fairly easy-to-understand document, and it was a response to both the hyperrationalism of the anti-religion crowd and to the fideism and Kierkegaard-style irrationalism that's all-too-present among believers. It sounds like your outlook is more on the rationalist / atheist side, so it might be worth checking into the mystical side of atheism: some of the Eastern religions especially might be worth exploring.

Of course, that only matters if that's one of your themes. If you're just using that as a backdrop for some good swashbuckling then you might get away with it.

Regardless, I agree with Survivor's thoughts on fleshing out the backstory, so you can understand how these characters came to be the way they are, which will help you determine how they should react.

Regards,
Oliver

>>Many medieval religious thinkers were at the forefront of the scientific revolution.

Also, regarding Oliver's comment about the poetic style. I personally am drawn to this. I find too many books have a disregard for what can be done with language. I remember reading Homer when I was younger, previously all I had read was Stephen King and the like. It was a T E Lawrence translation. I was amazed by what was being done with words. I loved to read every sentence (at that point I didn't understand any of it really!).

quote:

---

My story does not describe a war between theism and atheism; it describes a war between rational thought and dogma.

---

quote:

---

I like the rationalists being pirates.

---

quote:

---

Also, regarding Oliver's comment about the poetic style. I personally am drawn to this.

---

quote:

---

Also Oliver, I'm very intrigued by your comments on religion. My novel revolves around existentialism and the self-righteousness of man etc.. I'd be very interested in your views.

---

quote:

---

[quote]My story does not describe a war between theism and atheism; it describes a war between rational thought and dogma.

---

If you'll allow me to be a pain in the butt, there's no contradiction between rational thought and dogma; only between rational thought and blind faith.[/quote]

The same goes for the discussion of your overall plotline. It occurs to me that you've either got a situation where you've got superstitious fundamentalism prevailing on multiple colonized planets for a thousand years...doesn't that strike you as rather unlikely without some kind of centralization? If it doesn't strike you as unlikely, then you must believe that the vast majority of humans would choose to live in such societies, even coming from different traditions and ending up on different planets and all that. If this is the way that almost everyone wants to live, then how is it "tolerant" to fight against that?

Or are they just playing Barbarossa to the rest of humanity?