posted
Just tell me what you see wrong about it. I'll listen. I think I can probably see a few things wrong already, but I want to post this bit before I talk myself out of posting all together
quote: When Hal’s boss Mr. Grumbacher offered to buy Hal's son Sam, Hal thought he’d misheard, at first. “You mean Ham, the dog?” he asked. They’d been looking to find their old dog a new home with more yard room for a while, now. Of course that’s what Mr. Grumbacher meant. “No, I mean Sam. He’s what—your fifth child?” Mr. Grumbacher put up his eyebrows and grinned like he’d been especially clever. “I mean, come on, Hal, you have so many kids you can’t possibly afford them all on your current salary. I’ll save you money and even give you a boost.” “You want to buy my son?” How could he even know about Hal’s—wait, the company picnics. Hal always brought the kids because company picnics were one of the few events he could take
posted
I am not a grammar grater, but I was hooked. You made fast work of generating some interest. I would keep reading-trying to find out how Sci-fi "sort of Sci-fi" is.
Posts: 1888 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
The first sentence is a bit clumsy with the repetitious names and pronouns. This sentence also makes the POV unclear. Most of the first 13 seems to be in Hal's POV, but the first sentence is omni, with only the narrator knowing Hal is confused.
Some here at Hatrack don't like starting with dialog, but it may be the easiest way of fixing these problems.
"I'd like to buy Sam," said Hal's boss, Mr. Grumbacher.
"You mean Ham, the dog?" said Hal. They’d been looking to find their old dog a new home with more yard room for a while, now.
“No, I mean Sam. He’s what—your fifth child?”....
I suggest you tighten this up a bit. The story has potential. I really enjoyed the movie, Raising Arizona, with a similar idea, but with kidnapping rather than purchasing a child.
[This message has been edited by WouldBe (edited February 19, 2008).]
When Hal’s boss Mr. Grumbacher offered to buy Hal's son Sam
punctuation marks are not my strong suit but I believe you are missing some commas around , Mr. Grumbacher,
thought he’d misheard, at first
how about
thought he misunderstood him
Mr. Grumbacher put up his eyebrows and grinned like he’d been especially clever
I think 'raised' would sound better than 'put up'. You could probably do without 'like he'd been especially clever'. The raised eybrows and grin pretty much says that already.
How could he even know about Hal’s—wait, the company picnics
I would cut 'wait' and italisize 'the company picnics'. Emphasize the fact that they are his thoughts.
This is interesting but not hooking me as of yet. His bosses name and the dogs name rhyming with his youngest son makes me think that this is a humorous piece. I would probably read on just to see where it is going.
quote:When Hal’s boss ,Mr. Grumbacher,offered to buy Hal's son Sam, Hal (too many Hals, Hams, Sams and Grums)thought he’d misheard, (at first.--cut) “You mean Ham, the dog?” he asked. They’d(Who?-Hal and Grumbacher or Sam) been looking to find their old dog a new home with more yard room for a while, now(--cut). Of course ,that’s what Mr. Grumbacher meant. “No, I mean Sam. He’s what—your fifth child?” Mr. Grumbacher put up(--lifted, raised) his eyebrows and grinned like he’d been especially clever. “I mean, come on, Hal, you have so many kids you can’t possibly afford them all on your current salary. I’ll save you money and even give you a boost (what's that? Does that mean a payrise? Or just a boost to his self-esteem? I would suggest clarifying it) .” “You want to buy my son?” How could he even know about Hal’s—wait, the company picnics.(--this seems a bit like the narrator suddenly becoming evident, when it is actually Hals thought. I would either keep the thoughts in third or bring them out as actual thought dialogue) Hal always brought the kids because company picnics were one of the few events he could takenot sure where you are going with this sentence but it seems a little wordy already...
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited February 20, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited February 20, 2008).]
posted
This is definitely an interesting premise, and mostly well-written, with a few nits.
I don't have much to add to the above, though, so I won't critique it myself. However, I would say that the first sentence is NOT omni, it's clearly in Hal's POV; and I like the way "--wait, the company picnics" is done. I feel it's far superior to changing it into italicized, quoted thoughts.
posted
I am not going to comment on the grammar or style. Being the father of 7 the idea of the story made me angry enough to want to... um I won't suggest what I wanted to do but I will say, keep reading.
I won't turn this into a soap box, but needless to say the idea of people thinking that you would be willing to sell one of your children offends me. I really hope the father holds out no matter what the cost. I know I would.
-Jeff
BTW if you are looking for readers I will. Just because as I said I was angry enough at Mr. Grumbacher, to reach over and punch him.
posted
Hey, everyone, thanks for your comments. I'll be working on your suggestions and have a revision up soon, I just wanted to ask an additional question, of everyone but especially jeffrey.hite, since he's said he's a Dad.
Do you think the whole premise is a bit too incendiary? I didn't write the story because I like the premise (I would never consent to sell/buy a child, myself), but . . . actually I don't remember where the story came from
Anyway, thanks th jeffrey.hite especially for your comment, because it got me thinking about some more realistic reactions from Hal. I'll need to stew my thoughts for a few days to get the next revision put together. I think I'll wait to ask for readers after I make those revisions. And of course the corrections to my beginning.
posted
That depends, Jo. Remember the genre we choose to write is speculative. That gives us a greater liberty on our subject manner. Nobody bats an eyelash when we choose to write about flying dragons that breath fire and talk, or when we write about undead vampires that feast on the blood of the living. In that context, selling a child is not out of the realm of possiblities. In fact, children do go up for 'sale' in todays world. Third world families will 'sell' their children in hopes they have a better life and to help other memebers of their family. Woman surrogate all the time, which if you think about it is selling a child, sort of. Not to mention white slavery and prostitution (not every parent is concerned with the best interest of their offspring). It looks as if you are taking a comedic approach to this story. If thats the case go all out. It's your story so write it how you want. The worst that will happen is you can't find anyone to like it. Write and have fun doing it. It's the reason why I chose this as a hobby. It makes me happy. Posts: 3072 | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
"Do you think the whole premise is too incendiary?"
Not at all. Don't ever let others determine for you what it is you should write - or not write. The writer is someone who is free to explore the full range of human emotion and behavior. If you are concerned with the offense someone may find at what you write, well, take up something else. Literature is replete with works that at one time or another were deemed "offensive" and banned or caused a furor - the masterpieces "Lolita" and "Madame Bovary" come to mind.
You are writing a story, a piece of fiction, about a child who may be sold. Children are being sold into sex slavery every day FOR REAL. This seems to me far more offensive than any story.
[This message has been edited by nitewriter (edited February 20, 2008).]
posted
Jo1day I want to make it clear that I didn't mean you should not write this story. I agree with nitewriter that this is a piece of fiction and that you have the right to write pretty much anything you like. If I like it or not is only valid as far as you are trying to sell the story to me. As I said, being the father of a large family I get comments all the time about, how can we afford so many and on and on. My reactions to these vary depending how offensive the comment is. As far as buying and selling children, I know that happens around the world everyday FOR REAL. It makes me sick. I look at my children and imagine someone selling one of them, or offering to buy them and the idea usually makes me sick to my stomach. I have gone as far as not talking to family members when they have decided that we have too many children, not telling people about the next birth until it has happened, but usually I jsut try to grin and bear it. I said I was not going to turn this into a soap box so I don't want to go down this road too far. But if it help I will share a small part of a list that I refer to from time to time. If you want more like this google: "large family comebacks."
Don't you know what causes that?
* No, please tell me! * Of course, don't you? * Yes, we do know what causes that and we like it very much, thank you. * Oh yes, we finally figured it out and we now keep the tooth brushes in separate glasses!
I normally don't like to talk about my kids in public places (on line) so if you would like to know more about my feelings on this please feel to e-mail me.
[This message has been edited by jeffrey.hite (edited February 20, 2008).]
posted
Thanks to everyone who replied. Let me clarify that I'm the world's worst nitpicker when it comes to my own stuff. When I have the rewrite done, I'll post.
posted
Sounds like you were sparked to realized that you hadn't thought through Hal's initial response, as a father, maybe because you aren't a parent yourself. That's a pretty constructive realization. Especially when the set-up here (Hal's employed, takes his kids places if he can) does not have the same desperation of the situations where parents give up their children.
I personally like the way the beginning's set up there, with the very plain back and forth where Hal think's he's misheard. It feels very real-life which counterpoints the crazy idea nicely.
posted
[Quote] Sounds like you were sparked to realized that you hadn't thought through Hal's initial response, as a father, maybe because you aren't a parent yourself. That's a pretty constructive realization. Especially when the set-up here (Hal's employed, takes his kids places if he can) does not have the same desperation of the situations where parents give up their children. {/QUOTE]
That's exactly right, but thank you for giving the summary. It helped to get me back on track about what exactly was wrong with the situation.
Thanks again! You've given me some new inspiration concerning the whole story.
posted
As a Mom, my response to the boss would be to walk away from the whole conversation if I couldn't afford to quit then and there.
I have clients who are nonprofit orgnaizations that are working to stop child trafficing. So it's a topic I know a bit about from working with them.
But write the story. Raising Arizona is one of my favorite movies. Genre is really going to matter. People are more likely to stomach a funny story on this topic which is what I think the tone is setting us up for. For now you have me hooked.
The voice and dialog didn't ring true for me. If your in Hal's POV, which is what I assume, then he's going to have a much stronger reaction. When he's sure the boss wants to buy the son, Hal's going to want to kill him, his stomach is going to roll, etc. He's not going to analytically assess WHERE or how the boss knew about the kids.
If you're in the boss's POV, he's not going to think that raising his eyebrows are clever and he's not going to be privy to Hal's thoughts on line 13.
My take:
quote: When Hal’s boss, Mr. Grumbacher, offered to buy Hal's son Sam I might flip this to "Sam, Hal's youngest, but that's a style issue , Hal thought he’d misheard, at first. this is Hal's POV and not omni. You need a new paragraph after this though.
“You mean Ham, the dog?” he asked. They’d Who? been looking to find their old dog a new home with more yard room for a while, now Two things, one plausability wise and the other writing wise. Older dogs generally need and want less space to run. Second, you keep qualifying time. What I mean is "misheard, at first" and "a while, now." = the qualifiers "at first" and "now" are probably not necessary. You can do that every once and a while, but twice in two paragraphs is too much. . Of course , that’s what Mr. Grumbacher meant. “No, I mean Sam. He’s what—your fifth child?” Mr. Grumbacher put up his eyebrows and grinned like he’d been especially clever. this sounds more like a narrator thought than Hal's. At this point Hal should be getting horrified and the perception of the smile should be tainted by that. So, something like - he looked like a succubus trying to seduce a virgin - would work better FOR ME than this image.
“I mean, come on, Hal, you have so many kids you can’t possibly afford them all on your current salary. I’ll save you money and even give you a boost What does this mean? Be a bit more concrete. like - the 50K I'll give you will really help you out .” “You want to buy my son?” How could he even know about Hal’s—wait, the company picnics. Hal always brought the kids because company picnics were one of the few events he could take
It's a good start. Try to sink more into Hal's head and work on having his reaction be natural. The stunned phase he's in now is going to get old soon. As soon as he understands the boss isn't joking, he's going to have to react. That probably means he's going to get angry.
[This message has been edited by kings_falcon (edited February 29, 2008).]
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