Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Short Works » Angels in the Architecture

   
Author Topic: Angels in the Architecture
Toby Western
Member
Member # 7841

 - posted      Profile for Toby Western   Email Toby Western         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't like to post from an unfinished piece, but this is one I've been trying to get to grips with for a while. I'm looking for comments on the 1st 13; particularly whether the character hook is sufficient. I'm trying to avoid becoming too overt with the speculative element.

quote:

“No water, Stefan, I am not thirsty, I am dying.” Father Francisco Matras pushed the glass away. The effort made him cough again and he cursed, silently--always silently--and sank back onto the bed, which was too soft, too clean and white. His rheumy eyes could barely make out where the pale, starched sheets ended and the white, starched walls of his cell began. Only the window was clear: a single dark slit, open to the night air through which the last red stain of evening drained and the song of the cicadas sounded.

The robed figure inclined his head, “Your will, father.” He turned to leave, but before he could step away, a gnarled hand caught his hand and held him.

“No. Stay a while. I would not be alone, tonight.


[This message has been edited by Toby Western (edited March 20, 2009).]


Posts: 171 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post 
I've been struggling with openings myself. What I've found is, besides creating a sympathetic protagonist, an opening should artfully pose a question of high magnitude that will be artfully answered by the end of a story. Posing the question initiates the suspense factor of the tension equation.

I don't see a high magnitude question posed in those thirteen lines.

[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited March 20, 2009).]


Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Toby Western
Member
Member # 7841

 - posted      Profile for Toby Western   Email Toby Western         Edit/Delete Post 
And then dust?
Posts: 171 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post 
Is that a rhetorical question or the question Father Matras's dying asks? Ashes to ashes, dust to dust?
Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Toby Western
Member
Member # 7841

 - posted      Profile for Toby Western   Email Toby Western         Edit/Delete Post 
I meant to allude to a (possibly apocryphal) answer to a question in a theology final paper. Frustratingly, I can't track down the source, but the question was along the lines of: what happens after death? And the student's answer: and then dust. Legend has it he got a 1st.
Posts: 171 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post 
Knowing a story's ending means knowing the answer to the overarching question a story poses in the beginning, which can mean that a writer arriving at the answer precedes knowing the question.

What will happen to Father Matras is already answered in the opening: He will die. He is portrayed as an old man, so that's what I take as the answer to the why-he's-dying question. The most basic question of what will happen to Father Matras is mostly answered before the story's truly begun. Therefore, the basic question that presents to me is, what happened before he knew he was dying? If that's so, I'd like to see that question posed as early as possible.

Traditionally, science fiction's basic overarching question was what if. What if time travel were possible? What if vessels capable of traveling at superluminal velocities were possible? And so on. Fantasy, traditionally, similar basic what-if questions.

Mysteries, who done it. Psychological thrillers, who and why who done it. Adventures, will the hero succeed on an epic quest? Amatory romances, will they or won't they? And so on.

Contemporary fantasy and science fiction meld other genres' basic questions with the what-if question.


Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nick T
Member
Member # 8052

 - posted      Profile for Nick T   Email Nick T         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Toby,

Minor personal nit only; I don't like dialogue openings, so I'd swap the dialogue and action, i.e.

quote:
Father Francisco Matras pushed the glass away. “No water, Stefan, I am not thirsty, I am dying.”

For me, the style and situation are enough to keep me reading.

Nick


Posts: 712 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Toby Western
Member
Member # 7841

 - posted      Profile for Toby Western   Email Toby Western         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback, Extrinsic. In my beginning is my end, huh?

To carry on along an interesting tangent, isn't the question a writer really wants to get their readers asking not so much what if, or who, or how, but rather: what then? Of course, its easier to spout fine theories about writing than to actual get something down – so I'd better get back to that.

Nit noted, Nick. Cheers.


Posts: 171 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Owasm
Member
Member # 8501

 - posted      Profile for Owasm   Email Owasm         Edit/Delete Post 
My nit: starched walls?

Other than that, I am waiting for Father Matras to say his peace.

I think what is lacking, for me, is an indication of why he wants Stefan to stay the night. If it is to be with him when he dies, then the drama turns to personal sorrow. That's not going to interest me as much. I don't read to wallow in grief.

If he is going to say or do something vital to or for Stefan, then I think your hook has no barb. You have to sacrifice a little drama later for some drama in the first 13 lines and that sacrifice isn't yet there.

The initial setting is a lovely piece of work (except for the starched walls.)


Posts: 1608 | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BenM
Member
Member # 8329

 - posted      Profile for BenM   Email BenM         Edit/Delete Post 
I'll admit I did read a bit of the comments, but will still try to give some feedback on the first 13 only on its own merit.

On the initial read, there were only a few minor nitpicks for me. One was Father Francisco. To me this alliteration calls attention to itself, and providing the full name is debatably unnecessary - Father Matras may work equally well.

The other was the 'white' of the bed and walls, and the ruddy sunset outside. I would expect that the ambient light would tinge the inside of the room with a touch of red hue - something that, since it doesn't happen, stands out to my eye.

The father in “Your will, father.” is a title and should probably be capitalised.

I'm not sure that Stefan being the robed figure is obvious enough. Then again, maybe it is. I'm just not sure about it.

Lastly, as an overall read, I didn't find this intro really grabbed me at all. For all I knew, Francisco could just be being a melodramatic hypochondriac with bad vision and not about to die at all. There is no exceptionally compelling reason for me to stay, just as there is none for Stefan.

[This message has been edited by BenM (edited March 21, 2009).]


Posts: 921 | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
skadder
Member
Member # 6757

 - posted      Profile for skadder   Email skadder         Edit/Delete Post 
I think you have some POV problems with this (very minor, I might add).

The first paragraph is clearly from the dying priest's perspective.

However:

The robed figure inclined his head, “Your will, father.” He turned to leave, but before he could step away, a gnarled hand caught his hand and held him.

This line, if I read it on its own, would make me think the POV was the robed figure, as he is being grabbed rather than the priest doing the grabbing.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited March 21, 2009).]


Posts: 2995 | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kitti
Member
Member # 7277

 - posted      Profile for Kitti   Email Kitti         Edit/Delete Post 
I have a totally random question. Is your priest a Catholic? Somehow the Spanish-sounding name makes me think so. I ask because I have this fuzzy recollection of reading about the Last Rites and how you're not allowed to eat or drink anything afterwards (something about impurities in the body, maybe).

Of course, I'm not really sure when or where your characters are, and this was definitely medieval Catholicism and not modern Catholicism I was reading about. So please ignore me if you know what you're talking about and I'm totally off-base here :-)


Posts: 715 | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Toby Western
Member
Member # 7841

 - posted      Profile for Toby Western   Email Toby Western         Edit/Delete Post 
Edit: extraneous nonesense. Removed.

[This message has been edited by Toby Western (edited March 22, 2009).]


Posts: 171 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Toby Western
Member
Member # 7841

 - posted      Profile for Toby Western   Email Toby Western         Edit/Delete Post 
A pseudo-random answer for you Kittie: the priest is Catholic, though the setting is contemporary. I'll need to find someone who knows more about the Catholic priesthood than I to vet this before I'm through. If you can't write what you know, then at least get to know what you write, I guess.

Skadder, I see what you mean about taking a step back from PoV. Would it help if I emphasized the tags, ie:

quote:

The robed figure inclined his head, “Your will, Father.” He turned to leave, but before he could step away, Francisco's gnarled hand caught and held him.

I think either version is probably omni, but perhaps the second inclines more towards Francisco?

BenM, I whitewashed the starched walls and fixed the “father”. Still the hook remains subtle and I understand the without a stronger speculative element, the intro isn't compelling for you.

Here's a second shot at the opening the skips the 'frame'. This one starts with action and keeps chronography, but might weaken the ending that focuses on a certain dying priest...

quote:

Francisco lay on the dirt, numb with pain. He fixed his eyes on the twin headlights of the jeep and tried to ignore the rest. The beating was pretty well over and the lesson learned: to move was to suffer. Every word, every gesture was met with an equal and disproportionate violence and so silence and stillness were the only way to bring an end to it. So he lay still and waited.

Silhouettes reeled between him and the light, forms blurred by the loose-fit of their fatigues: Everett and Maston. His buddies. His brothers. Two months into basic training and he had thought that he knew them. A mistake, that.

“How do you like me now, fagot?” A booted foot hit his head, snapping it back. Hot sand


[This message has been edited by Toby Western (edited March 22, 2009).]


Posts: 171 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
skadder
Member
Member # 6757

 - posted      Profile for skadder   Email skadder         Edit/Delete Post 
Not sure.

I think perhaps it is the knowledge implied with the phrase '...he turned to leave...'. From the priest's POV this is a guess, the robed figure could be turning to pick something up or to look at something before turning back. The same stands for the 'before he could step away'--again knowledge that the robed figure would only know for sure. It is the the sum of all these POV uncertainties that make it seem like the robed figues POV.

-The robed figure inclined his head. "Your will father."
Francisco grabbed the man's arm before he could step away."No, stay a while. I would not be alone tonight."

On an aside, if you wish to establish an omniscient POV you have to be upfront in establishing that from the off. Your intro starts with a close POV of the priest and so the expectation is that will be how you will continue. This can be considered off putting to the reader.

I read somewhere that when you start in omni you should start IN OMNI and not in a version of third. It needs to be clear exactly what POV you are using.

e.g. The priest lay alone on his bed and watched the morning sun rise, unaware it would be the last of his life. Outside his door, the killer silently screwed the silencer on his pistol

The above sentence clarifies, in a stroke, that the it is an omniscient POV, as the narrator is clearly identifying knowledge that the character has no clue about.

Another:

e.g. Neither Jack not Jane could have predicted what was shortly going to happen...


Posts: 2995 | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nick T
Member
Member # 8052

 - posted      Profile for Nick T   Email Nick T         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

I think the fact that a lot of physical actions are directly associated with Father Francisco in the first paragraph firmly link the POV with him. As Skadder suggested, I think you need an indication very early on that the omni narrator is being used.

While there’s obvious action in the second version, I found it a little short of context. I wanted more grounding in who was being beaten and why rather than being thrown straight in.

The first version worked for me. Yes, there’s a lack of speculative element or obvious conflict. We don’t know what the opening promise is and I’d be disappointed if something spectacular didn’t happen *but* the prose was solid enough for me to trust you.

Nick


Posts: 712 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think that perspective or psychic access is in question in the original version. If anything, I think the issue is a matter of abruptness.

The narrative point of view remains in one place. I visualize the stage location of each focal item as follows,
Farther rank: Father Matras, the bed, the wall, the window, the outside.
Nearer rank: Stefan standing next to the anonymous objective narrator (me, the reader) taking in the setting without moving position.

I don't see the narrator as moving across the "camera" line between Matras and Stefan, either. The narrator stays in one fixed position, albeit psychically accessing Matras' thoughts.

A standing person turning away from a dying man is logically an indication to the dying man (and the narrator) that he, Stefan, is leaving. I don't see the narrator accessing Stefan's interior thoughts. Matras' grabbing Stefan's hand is a logical effect of Matras wanting Stefan to stay. Access to thoughts remains limited to Matras', which I don't see as omniscient, but as limited psychic access to one character, Matras.

I think the transition from outside the window to Stefan is a bit abrupt, though, mostly because it's not specific enough to show clearly that the narrator has pulled out of Matras' thoughts without a go-back reading.

I imagined both men are wearing monastic robes. The word cell immediately cued me in to that, as in monastic cell. Consider whether the window might be better as an iconic symbol rather than a slit, which would qualify the monastic nature of the cell more. A simple medical cross, a simple Coptic ankh (resembles the gender symbol for male sex), a Maltese cross which is the symbol of the Knights Hospitaler, or whatever, depending on what order Matras belongs to. If Matras is a Jesuit, a Spanish priest could logically be a Jesuit. The icon becomes more problematic, occasionally represented as IHS with a crucifix topping the H, but formally JHS with the crucifix above the H. The name Francisco suggests to me that he might be of a Franciscan order, though, which a simple crucifix could represent.

Something like below the quote might smooth out the abruptness of transition from outside to Stefan.

quote:
The robed figure inclined his head, “Your will, father.” He turned to leave, but before he could step away, a gnarled hand caught his hand and held him.

//Stefan bent over and set the waterglass on the night stand beside the bed. Robe readjusted, he bowed his head. "Your will, father." He turned to leave. Before he could step away, Matras' gnarled hand caught Stefan and held him.//

In my earlier life, my parents wished for me to become a priest. Traditional Irish Catholic thingy for a second son. I learned enough about the priesthood before that course had been forced upon me to get out of it. Same with a military officer's career, which they also wanted for me. One thing, a priest takes a new name, a saint's name upon ordination that precedes his given name as far as the church is concerned, same with nuns.

A baptismal name (first sacrament) is identical to a secular given name. Traditionally the second sacrament, confirmation, a middle name is given for the Sacrament of Chrismation. The Sacrament of the Eucharist is the third sacrament, another middle name is given that follows the second-sacrament one. However, in modern practice the Eucharist sacrament commonly precedes Chrismation.

Sacrament of Penance, fourth sacrament. Extreme Unction, annointing of the gravely ill, fifth sacrament. Holy Orders, ordination, sixth sacrament. Matrimony, seventh sacrament. Which sacrament comes when in the pecking order varies from religious order to order and parish to parish, but the general sense is there. The important point is that saints' names are traditionally given for baptism, Chrismation, and Eucharist, though in modern practice a supplicant may take a Chrismation name (sort of like a rite of passage into adolescence), and upon ordination a saint's name is taken.

A priest then might have a name something like this; Peter Francis Dominic Joseph Smith.

Edited to add: Oh, upon reflection, Matras not wanting to sleep alone is a brilliant metaphor for not wanting to die alone. In some Spanish cultures sleeping is known as the little death. Also, the question that the original thirteen lines raise for me is a subtle one, what will Matras say to Stefan that will set the plot in motion. As far as introducing Matras, I think the first note of the chorus is well and truly struck.

[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited March 23, 2009).]


Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Toby Western
Member
Member # 7841

 - posted      Profile for Toby Western   Email Toby Western         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the clarification Skadder. Now I see what you mean.

Omni was a red-Herring. Sorry. I should have known better than to bring it up. I guess I meant something along the lines of: moving out from a close(ish) PoV to something more neutral.

And thank you Extrinsic for the wealth of information and some neat suggestions. I guess I know who to come and bother for details about the priesthood, now!

I appreciate all the helpful feedback - and have way more of that than I do actual story now - a shameful state of affairs that I'm going to have to work to fix


Posts: 171 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2